Biden cancels $10,000 in federal student loan debt for most borrowers

[sqwakvfr]

3 minutes ago, stoner said:

they could drop a few less bombs next week. that should cover it. 

Like in Ukraine? 

[ozimoron]

Just now, sqwakvfr said:

Paying or not paying debt is a tax burden/tax relief?

They didn't "not pay" anything. They were excused, a few crumbs given to the poor to stop them complaining too much as compared to the massive GOP tax reductions for the rich.

[Chomper Higgot]

1 hour ago, Hanaguma said:

That is a good point. Frankly, aptitude testing should be a must for most, if not all, degree programmes.  A lot can also be learned at the community college/vocational level.  There is no need to pile up 100,000 plus in debt to study English Lit. or History. 

Can provide evidence of people accumulating $100,000+ studying English Literature or History?

[stevenl]

1 hour ago, KanchanaburiGuy said:

<Snip>

There's really no comparison between Trump's Tax Cut and Biden's Student Loan Debt Relief. They are very different things reflecting entirely different circumstamces.

<Snip>

True, one is helping people who need it, the other is making the rich richer.

[sqwakvfr]

1 minute ago, ozimoron said:

They didn't "not pay" anything. They were excused, a few crumbs given to the poor to stop them complaining too much as compared to the massive GOP tax reductions for the rich.

So now it’s the Crumbs can trickle down to the masses argument?  “Let them eat cake”. 

[Chomper Higgot]

23 minutes ago, EVENKEEL said:

You know I started the reply talking about kids who aren't college material and the lack of High school programs to better prepare them for a brighter future than complaining about minimum wages. And the fact that the money could be better spent addressing the needs of those individuals.

 

How is that not inline with reality. Taking on massive college debt to secure a starting wage of 56K/yr isn't really good math. If the parents can foot the bill, fine.

 

Kids in High school should be taught about the alternatives to college, and there are many.

A truck driver makes more than a college grad. Amazing. The maritime industry pays well.

 

 

 

https://www.ziprecruiter.com/Salaries/Company-Truck-Driver-Salary#:~:text=As of Jul 27%2C 2022%2C the average annual,This is the equivalent of %241%2C574%2Fweek or %246%2C823%2Fmonth.

 

 

Truck drivers are looking down the barrel of being replaced by self drive vehicles.

 

It’s not a job I’d advise anyone to go into right now.

 

 

[sqwakvfr]

2 minutes ago, Chomper Higgot said:

Can provide evidence of people accumulating $100,000+ studying English Literature or History?

My sister who got a Master in English Literature.  She did not want to become a teacher and opted to work at Target for a little above minimum wage.  She is now in her mid 40’s and is about to uncork a bottle of champagne.  Not sure exactly how much she owes but it is more than 50K and probably less than 100K.  

[Chomper Higgot]

1 hour ago, The Hammer2021 said:

It's above average.

It’s not a high salary, not by a very long way.

[dj230]

On 8/25/2022 at 7:42 AM, Credo said:

So, does that mean every time I eat a meal it's a slap in the face to those who are hungry?  

 

You are making a false equivalency.  I went through 4 years of University and then graduate school.  I took out loans and I paid for them.   A University education was much more affordable than it is today.  We need college educated people, so I support debt relief for those who have had to pay for their education through loans.   

 

Pretty bad analogy, a more accurate one would be if you paid for your meal and then everyone after you got their meal for free and then on top of that you have to chip in to pay for theirs too. 

 

I don't think anyone is arguing that debt relief is bad, it's how it was executed. The way it was executed caused everyone who actually struggled and paid off their loans to not get any debt relief, those who were irresponsible and didn't pay off their loans are getting debt relief. 

 

In my opinion if you took out a loan for school and decided to do a bad program/get a bad degree that's your fault. What should have been done is one could have borrowed money to pay the student loans and then one would declare bankruptcy. Few want to take responsibility for their actions so this didn't happen, much easier to have a victim mentality instead. 

[The Hammer2021]

1 minute ago, Chomper Higgot said:

It’s not a high salary, not by a very long way.

But they are just at the  beginning of their 'salary life'. Because  of the professional qualifications  they have gained that 60k will probably double or even quadruple- 125 - 250.

[Chomper Higgot]

2 minutes ago, The Hammer2021 said:

But they are just at the  beginning of their 'salary life'. Because  of the professional qualifications  they have gained that 60k will probably double or even quadruple- 125 - 250.

Well yes, educated people tend to earn good salaries.

 

Not always, but in general they do.

 

They also pay higher taxes and contribute to the economy.

[Chomper Higgot]

5 minutes ago, dj230 said:

Pretty bad analogy, a more accurate one would be if you paid for your meal and then everyone after you got their meal for free and then on top of that you have to chip in to pay for theirs too. 

 

I don't think anyone is arguing that debt relief is bad, it's how it was executed. 

 

In my opinion if you took out a loan for school and decided to do a bad program/get a bad degree that's your fault. What should have been done is one could have borrowed money to pay the student loans and then one would declare bankruptcy. 

Federal Student Debt is excluded from bankruptcy settlement, the last administration saw to that.

[EVENKEEL]

30 minutes ago, ozimoron said:

The same pot that Trump gave away 2.4 trillion (with a T) dollars to the rich from. Those arguments about it being taxpayers money so all taxpayers have a right to be butt hurt is just a talking point, probably found on Breitbart or Infowars.  Governements spend money according to their mandate and student tax relief is popular.

https://www.westernjournal.com/newest-study-debunks-myth-rich-benefit-trump-tax-cuts/

 

As an American making in the 150K/yr range at that time, I didn't really see much difference. My returns got simpler because I had no need to itemize deductions for work related expenses. 

[EVENKEEL]

24 minutes ago, Chomper Higgot said:

Truck drivers are looking down the barrel of being replaced by self drive vehicles.

 

It’s not a job I’d advise anyone to go into right now.

 

 

Having a large loan at crazy high interest for the pay off of 56K/yr isn't something I'd advise either. The truck driving jobs was just an example of many good paying jobs. Dish washers and janitors were making 60K/yr in the maritime business.

[John Drake]

48 minutes ago, Chomper Higgot said:

Can provide evidence of people accumulating $100,000+ studying English Literature or History?

You have no experience with American higher ed, do you? Your major area of study does not preclude you from receiving a student loan.  https://studentaid.gov/understand-aid/types/loans/subsidized-unsubsidized

[ThailandRyan]

1 hour ago, sqwakvfr said:

I am a citizen and I do not recall getting stimulus checks between 2009 and 2017(the Obama years).  I do not recall this on my past tax returns.  

 

I did not qualify under these conditions:

 

 

• Direct cash payments
  • Senate – $17 billion to give one-time $300 payments to recipients of Supplemental Security Income and Social Security, and veterans receiving disability and pensions.
  • House – $4 billion to provide a one-time additional Supplemental Security Income and Social Security Disability Insurance payment to the elderly, of $450 for individuals and $630 for married couples.
  • Conference – $250 one-time payment to each recipient of Supplemental Security Income, Social Security (Regular & Disability) Insurance, Veterans pension, Railroad Retirement, or State retirement system^[26]

Here was the Plan under which families obtained stimulus money under Obama. Not a check persay but still funds on which taxes were paid.

 

https://www.thebalance.com/arra-details-3306299

 

ARRA stimulated demand by sending $260 billion to families. They received the funds through tax cuts, tax credits, and unemployment benefits. Most of the funds were delivered in the first two years.

 

 

Where did the stimulus go?

 

According to the Government Accountability Office, 36% of funds from 2009's Recovery Act went toward tax benefits, and another 32% went toward entitlement programs like unemployment. The majority of the remaining 32% went toward federal grant programs for purposes like education, transportation, and energy. A small amount of funding also went toward government contracts and loans.

[sqwakvfr]

3 minutes ago, ThailandRyan said:

Here was the Plan under which families obtained stimulus money under Obama.

 

https://www.thebalance.com/arra-details-3306299

 

ARRA stimulated demand by sending $260 billion to families. They received the funds through tax cuts, tax credits, and unemployment benefits. Most of the funds were delivered in the first two years.

I do not recall receiving a tax credit, tax cuts and I was employed during the Obama Administration. The only time I did pay Federal Income Taxes was during the years I worked for a Foreign Company in the Middle East.

[Chomper Higgot]

29 minutes ago, EVENKEEL said:

Having a large loan at crazy high interest for the pay off of 56K/yr isn't something I'd advise either. The truck driving jobs was just an example of many good paying jobs. Dish washers and janitors were making 60K/yr in the maritime business.

Which kind of backs up my assertion that $80,000 a year isn’t a lot of money.

[Chomper Higgot]

10 minutes ago, John Drake said:

You have no experience with American higher ed, do you? Your major area of study does not preclude you from receiving a student loan.  https://studentaid.gov/understand-aid/types/loans/subsidized-unsubsidized

I’m very much aware of that.

 

So where’s the $100,000+ on English literature or History?

 

 

[John Drake]

Just now, Chomper Higgot said:

I’m very much aware of that.

 

So where’s the $100,000+ on English literature or History?

 

 

English or history is irrelevant. Don't you understand? Look at the cost of enrollment, first for undergraduate and then for graduates. Even state schools easily go past $100,000. I doubt that getting a PhD in any subject can be done for less than 100K, unless you're going to a diploma mill.

[Eric Loh]

1 hour ago, sqwakvfr said:

I was not talking about deficits or Trump.  The real danger lies the national debt(almost 30 Trillion).  The interest on this debt is getting higher and higher.

What more to say about the national debt than that it’s taken a fifth of tax revenues to pay just the interest rate that can spend on meaningful policies to benefit the people. The worse aspect of this huge growing debt is that the dysfunction political system is not geared to do anything about it. The Rep Party need to contribute to policies for the people. Only one party is working for the people. The other working for one man. 

[Chomper Higgot]

13 minutes ago, John Drake said:

English or history is irrelevant. Don't you understand? Look at the cost of enrollment, first for undergraduate and then for graduates. Even state schools easily go past $100,000. I doubt that getting a PhD in any subject can be done for less than 100K, unless you're going to a diploma mill.

You are preaching to the converted, education in the US is way too expensive.

 

But now go back and look at the loan debts of the recipients of this policy.

Those with very high debts mostly followed law, medicine or STEM programs and have consequently moved into pay grades above which they are eligible to receive the loan write off.

 

 

 

 

[John Drake]

1 minute ago, Chomper Higgot said:

You are preaching to the converted, education in the US is way too expensive.

 

But now go back and look at the loan debts of the recipients of this policy.

Those with very high debts are mostly followed law, medicine or engine programs and have consequently moved into pay grades above which they are eligible to receive the load write off.

 

 

Most of the physicians will indeed make more than the cut off point. But I can assure you that there are plenty of failed lawyers and even engineers who will not come close to $125K. Ought to also check comparative salaries across the board. I'd imagine even a failed lawyer in NYC earns more than 125K, but how many lawyers in Peoria make 125K?

[Hanaguma]

32 minutes ago, Chomper Higgot said:

Which kind of backs up my assertion that $80,000 a year isn’t a lot of money.

But it IS $20,000 higher than those others. As I repeatedly said, going to uni gives a significant salary advantage. Time to pay up.  You (students) borrowed the money, and are reaping the benefits. Time to honor your obligations.

[Chomper Higgot]

9 minutes ago, John Drake said:

Most of the physicians will indeed make more than the cut off point. But I can assure you that there are plenty of failed lawyers and even engineers who will not come close to $125K. Ought to also check comparative salaries across the board. I'd imagine even a failed lawyer in NYC earns more than 125K, but how many lawyers in Peoria make 125K?

But you get my point, programs that lead to better chances of high incomes are the programs/schools charging very high fees.

[Chomper Higgot]

Just now, Hanaguma said:

But it IS $20,000 higher than those others. As I repeatedly said, going to uni gives a significant salary advantage. Time to pay up.  You (students) borrowed the money, and are reaping the benefits. Time to honor your obligations.

“You students”?

[Hanaguma]

10 minutes ago, Chomper Higgot said:

“You students”?

I think you know what I meant. "Those who borrowed the money have a responsibility to pay it back". 

[EVENKEEL]

30 minutes ago, Chomper Higgot said:

Which kind of backs up my assertion that $80,000 a year isn’t a lot of money.

It is, but it isn't. I haven't lived full time in the states in 20 yrs. Guess I'm out of touch

 

[John Drake]

3 minutes ago, Chomper Higgot said:

But you get my point, programs that lead to better chances of high incomes are the programs/schools charging very high fees.

They're all charging high fees. In a way, you're getting to the point that should be discussed. And it's not just the cost of the degree(s) but the quality of the product the loans pay for. Reducing outstanding loans should at least be tied to a cap on tuition. There are lots of areas to cut at American universities. When I received my first appointment as a faculty member at a large, well regarded state university, the school had five secretaries who covered all the departments. When I visited there about ten years ago, there were 15 secretaries as well as four PhDs serving as full time undergraduate and graduate advisors--with perhaps a twenty percent growth in student enrollment. For all my academic life, advising was something assigned to individual faculty members, not a separate job generating $80K/year per advisor. Universities are bloated with excess administrators, support staff, and counselors. And this doesn't even take into consideration the money wasted on athletic programs, stadiums, pools, and even velodromes. All extraneous to the stated mission of education.

[KanchanaburiGuy]

4 hours ago, ozimoron said:

I wonder if Trump's administration issued that form when he gave the rich a tax cut?

A tax cut allows you to keep more of the income you're already reporting. It is not additional  income.

 

Getting to keep more of your own money is not "additional income."

 

When something causes your Adjusted Gross Income on your tax form to go up, that's when you're likely to wind up paying more taxes. A tax cut has no affect your Adjusted Gross Income. None whatsoever.