Should Expats Be Able to Speak Thai

[freedomnow]

Should expats be able to put a question mark at the end of a thread title that is a question ?

 

THAT is the question.

[brewsterbudgen]

There seems to be a consensus that there is certainly no obligation or duty to learn Thai if you're an expat here.  Maybe the thread should be closed as the OP has his/her answer.

[wwest5829]

1 hour ago, BritManToo said:

Are you talking about deputy PM Anutin?

And disbarred PM Prayut?

 

Whom have both publicly called white foreigners 'farang'.

I do not get concerned about the term, “farang”, perhaps I have become less sensitive coming from a country of slur terms assigned to foreigners, racial or religious groups. My approach to “farang” is much the same as my approach to being referred to as “gringo” in Mexico. Took the first three levels of Thai but admit … lazy and easy enough to function in Chiang Mai with a Thai Wife without pressing myself to develop much more Thai language skill.

Edited August 29, 2022 by wwest5829

[peterfranks]

9 minutes ago, wwest5829 said:

I do not get concerned about the term, “farang”, perhaps I have become less sensitive

There is no reason to be less sensitive, since farang is the correct word and not insulting.

 

Maybe those trolls who use this as an excuse can provide us with the correct Thai word?

 

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Farang

[EricTh]

@NickyLouie

 

Counting from 1 to 10 is not a problem for most expats. I think this is exaggeration. Even tourists who are here for a short while can learn Thai numbers quickly.

 

It's speaking at an intermediate level without a heavy farang accent that is a challenge for most expats.

 

Edited August 29, 2022 by EricTh

[richard_smith237]

3 minutes ago, peterfranks said:

There is no reason to be less sensitive, since farang is the correct word and not insulting.

 

Maybe those trolls who use this as an excuse can provide us with the correct Thai word?

 

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Farang

 

Please please please can we enter debate about the word ‘Farang’ because that certainly hasn’t been covered before.......  

 

 

 

https://aseannow.com/topic/464622-farangorigin-and-meaning-of-the-word/

 

https://aseannow.com/topic/1124445-farang-is-not-impolite-word/page/6/

 

https://aseannow.com/topic/1036240-is-farang-derogatory/

 

https://aseannow.com/topic/1257399-why-are-westerners-so-offended-over-the-word-farang-get-over-it/

 

https://aseannow.com/topic/294348-the-word-farang/page/5/

 

https://aseannow.com/topic/1083565-how-do-you-spell-farang/page/2/

 

https://aseannow.com/topic/169391-farang-ki-nok/

 

https://aseannow.com/topic/720418-whats-the-meaning-of-farang-dong/

 

 

[EricTh]

4 hours ago, proton said:

Been with the Mrs 20 years, she is a Thai language teacher but I still can't speak it- can't afford the lessons! Seriously I find it impossible to tell one tone from another and what always made me not want to bother is hardly ever being understood by people when saying the simplest of things- people don't understand. Eg last week at post office told him where to and how, did not understand so he asked the wife, she said I had said it correctly. Happens all the time even with numbers. Mrs has taught some to speak, read and write to a high standard, I know when to give up.

It would be good if we could listen to some videos of you speaking to judge ourselves.

 

I don't think your Mrs is telling the truth. Maybe she is used to your accent.

 

 

 

Edited August 29, 2022 by EricTh

[Mac Mickmanus]

2 minutes ago, EricTh said:

It would be good if we could listen to some videos of you speaking to judge ourselves.

 

I don't think your Mrs is telling the truth. Maybe she is used to your accent.

 

 

 

Quite often some Thais see its a felang talking and they immediately think "I cannot understand English , so I cannot understand what he's saying " and so they just shake their head .

   I went to a restaurant recently and asked the waitress for "Moo Deng" , she couldnt understand what I was saying .

   I said it slowly "Mooooooo Deeeeeennng"

She shook her head and called another waitress other and I said to her "Moo Deng"

  Waitress number 2 said to Waitress number 1 

"Moo Deng" 

And waitress number one then understood 

[JackGats]

I would help if there were incentives to speaking Thai, like easier access to residence status etc. like in many countries.

 

[simon43]

My spoken/written/reading Thai is pretty good - it rates as my second language, with French and Lao following closely behind.

 

I'm in Myanmar right now, teaching kinder kids.  Apart from learning English, they also have classes in Myanmar language and Mandarin, both are which are at a level similar to my current understanding of those languages. So the person who pays the most attention to the teacher in these lessons is me!

[EricTh]

13 minutes ago, Mac Mickmanus said:

Quite often some Thais see its a felang talking and they immediately think "I cannot understand English , so I cannot understand what he's saying " and so they just shake their head .

   I went to a restaurant recently and asked the waitress for "Moo Deng" , she couldnt understand what I was saying .

   I said it slowly "Mooooooo Deeeeeennng"

She shook her head and called another waitress other and I said to her "Moo Deng"

  Waitress number 2 said to Waitress number 1 

"Moo Deng" 

And waitress number one then understood 

I think most westerners have trouble speaking the right tones , that's why she could not understand.

 

If you had spoken the right tone 'Moo Deng' , she would have understood.

 

 

[Mac Mickmanus]

1 minute ago, EricTh said:

I think most westerners have trouble speaking the right tones , that's why she could not understand.

 

If you had spoken the right tone 'Moo Deng' , she would have understood.

 

 

So how come waitress number 2 understood what I was saying ?

I said it about five times to waitress number 1 and she didn't understand

I said it once to waitress number 2 and she understood 

[richard_smith237]

4 hours ago, proton said:

Eg last week at post office told him where to and how, did not understand so he asked the wife, she said I had said it correctly. Happens all the time even with numbers. Mrs has taught some to speak, read and write to a high standard, I know when to give up.

I've encountered the same but realised its often one of or a combination of a couple of points / issues...

 

1) Pronunciation is slightly off and the listener is an idiot

2) Pronunciation is spot on and the listener is an idiot and hasn’t registered you’re speaking Thai

3) Pronunciation is slightly off and the listener switched on and understands you

 

 

These are the issues I’ve commonly encountered: 

 

1) At a shopping Mall in Bangkok. Speaking with the Cashier who is looking at me blankly with no concept of what I’m asking, I ask again. The person behind me (a Thai stranger), steps in a says exactly what I have just said. The cashier understands. 

I thank them, he says he doesn’t know why the cashier didn’t understand. 

 

2) Restaurant, Wife orders in Thai, I completely understand what my Wife has ordered. The wrong food order arrives.  There’s a conversation and it turns out the the waiter/waitress didn’t understand my wife correctly (waitress is from a province or neighbouring country).

 

3) Restaurant, Wife orders in Thai, I completely understand what my Wife has ordered. The wrong food order arrives.  The waitress is just an idiot who didn’t remember and didn’t write down the order (we now ask the waitresses to write the order, but many still won’t).

 

4) A friend is speaking Thai to a staff member (a shop / bar etc) and draws a blank, I repeat what my friend said and staff immediately understands - the difference in accent / pronunciation must be negligible. 

 

5) I’m asking for something and perhaps getting the tone slightly wrong (its an unfamiliar item). I’m drawing a 100% blank from the person I’m asking. I ask another person or member of staff who immediately understands me.  

 

6) Wife and I get in a Taxi...  Wife asks the taxi driver to take us to ‘such-a-place'....  Taxi driver repeats with ‘different-place’....  wife says 'such-a-place’ again....  Taxi driver repeats with ‘different-place’ again... I ask and taxi driver understands me !!!....  (had this in reverse plenty of times too).

 

 

When these issues happen enough it makes me realise that it's not always my Thai pronunciation thats off or poor, rather its that communication is two sided and if the person listening is an idiot its going to be little more difficult...

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[peterfranks]

1 minute ago, Mac Mickmanus said:

So how come waitress number 2 understood what I was saying ?

I said it about five times to waitress number 1 and she didn't understand

I said it once to waitress number 2 and she understood 

Because some of them are stubborn.

 

I recall in my early days I ordered tomato juice in Thai at the lucky star bar in Pattaya.

 

Now I know that the Thai word for tomato juice is difficulty to pronounce, something like Namu Khete  (N̂ả mak̄heụ̄xtheṣ̄), but I'm not aware of another word in Thai that sounds the same, and I'm sure I was not the first who ordered that in the biggest bar of WS, yet they would not understand until I ordered it in English

[richard_smith237]

5 minutes ago, Mac Mickmanus said:

8 minutes ago, EricTh said:

I think most westerners have trouble speaking the right tones , that's why she could not understand.

 

If you had spoken the right tone 'Moo Deng' , she would have understood.

 

 

So how come waitress number 2 understood what I was saying ?

I said it about five times to waitress number 1 and she didn't understand

I said it once to waitress number 2 and she understood 

Even with such little context and just reading the writing of ‘moo deng’ its obvious exactly what is meant.... 

 

In this case its obvious that the first waitress was an utter numpty. 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[AsianAtHeart]

9 minutes ago, Mac Mickmanus said:

So how come waitress number 2 understood what I was saying ?

I said it about five times to waitress number 1 and she didn't understand

I said it once to waitress number 2 and she understood 

Some people are more apt to catch on and translate words which may at first come across in an unfamiliar accent or pronunciation.

 

I was flying to England on British Airways with my brother years ago.  We sat in the middle section, and he was served by the flight attendant on his side, whereas I was served from the aisle on my side.  His flight attendant reached him during the beverage service and asked him, "Would you loik a gloss of spockling watah?" (Doing my best to spell her British accent.)  My brother couldn't make out what she was asking:  "spockling water?"  He couldn't get what that might be.  I immediately understood, however.  So I turned to him and translated, English-to-English, saying "sparkling water."  "Oh!" ...and he understood.

[simon43]

8 minutes ago, peterfranks said:

Because some of them are stubborn.

 

I recall in my early days I ordered tomato juice in Thai at the lucky star bar in Pattaya.

 

Now I know that the Thai word for tomato juice is difficulty to pronounce, something like Namu Khete  (N̂ả mak̄heụ̄xtheṣ̄), but I'm not aware of another word in Thai that sounds the same, and I'm sure I was not the first who ordered that in the biggest bar of WS, yet they would not understand until I ordered it in English

I know this isn't the Thai language sub-forum, but your pronunciation is way off ????.  I'm not surprised the waitress had a problem.  Without writing in Thai language, the sound (no tones shown here of course) is nam (meaning water) ma-kua-tate (tomato).  But full markings for trying anyway!

[Dene16]

5 hours ago, NickyLouie said:

Is this a reflection of people's IQ

Top stream at school, took army test at 18 and was in the top 5% of the country and have a degree. I don't live here permanently,three to four months a year. I think at my age now (59) i am just lazy. I would need to set aside a few hours (at least) each day to learn.

Having said that, some people just take to it like water off a ducks back regardless of IQ

Before i go somewhere i always ask the GF what i need to ask and she says don't bother they will not understand you. The reality is, she is correct, as the language is so tonal. i just phone her when i get there and hand them the phone.

Sometimes I can pick out specific words to get a gist of what someone is saying but very limited

I do need to learn more as it would be so much more fulfilling being able to understand others even if my spoken Thai was still way below par   

[Mac Mickmanus]

7 minutes ago, AsianAtHeart said:

Some people are more apt to catch on and translate words which may at first come across in an unfamiliar accent or pronunciation.

 

I was flying to England on British Airways with my brother years ago.  We sat in the middle section, and he was served by the flight attendant on his side, whereas I was served from the aisle on my side.  His flight attendant reached him during the beverage service and asked him, "Would you loik a gloss of spockling watah?" (Doing my best to spell her British accent.)  My brother couldn't make out what she was asking:  "spockling water?"  He couldn't get what that might be.  I immediately understood, however.  So I turned to him and translated, English-to-English, saying "sparkling water."  "Oh!" ...and he understood.

She should have asked for some Kirkling water instead of Spockling water 

[peterfranks]

16 minutes ago, simon43 said:

I know this isn't the Thai language sub-forum, but your pronunciation is way off ????.  I'm not surprised the waitress had a problem.  Without writing in Thai language, the sound (no tones shown here of course) is nam (meaning water) ma-kua-tate (tomato).  But full markings for trying anyway!

From my writing you obviously can not know how I pronounced it, but apart from that, can yhou point me to another word in Thai that sounds the same?

 

I know there are many words in Thai that sound almost same, just have a different tone, and mean something different, but I never heard a similar sounding word.

 

Edit to add: I'm sure if an immigrant in the UK asks where trane or terrain London, everyone will understand him

Edited August 29, 2022 by peterfranks

[tomazbodner]

Surely there is a very simple way to improve Thai literacy of the expat AseanNow members (at least most of them) by introducing a Thai language exam as part of the extension of stay requirements. Maybe start with retirement extensions?

[KhunLA]

I don't need to speak Thai, though I can get by with no problem.

 

Daughter needed to learn English, so in our house, it was English only.  Thai & Isan she got elsewhere.  Paid off well, as she was winning English speaking competitions, and was main requirement for her marketing job.

 

Most Thais younger than 40 can, or could speak English, if they didn't forget.  They just prefer not to, or simply don't need to.

Edited August 29, 2022 by KhunLA

[simon43]

6 minutes ago, peterfranks said:

From my writing you obviously can not know how I pronounced it, but apart from that, can yhou point me to another word in Thai that sounds the same?

 

I know there are many words in Thai that sound almost same, just have a different tone, and mean something different, but I never heard a similar sounding word.

For sure, I don't know how you pronounced it, but your spelling (Namu khete), suggests only 3 syllable sounds, whereas the correct pronunciation has 5.  Nam (water or juice) is used in a 100 different words (nam som = orange juice etc). I can't think of another Thai word that sounds like ma-kua-tate ????

 

Anyway, this is going slightly off-topic..

[jak2002003]

5 hours ago, BritManToo said:

Would point out immigrants are not expats.

Give me Thai nationality and I'll learn the language better.

This is something I agree with you on.

 

I think people that get permission to live and stay in a country for the rest of their lives should have to be able to speak the language of that country (at least at a basic level)

 

Often, farangs that live here act very entitled and refer themselves as 'expats'.  If they really believe they are expats they should be able to speak, read and write basic Thai.

 

The fact is most of us are just immigrants.....so no real obligation to lean the language.....

 

But it is still very helpful and advantageous to know some of the language of any country you live in....and people that can't be bothered, when they call themselves expats, are simply lazy. 

[AsianAtHeart]

13 minutes ago, peterfranks said:

From my writing you obviously can not know how I pronounced it, but apart from that, can yhou point me to another word in Thai that sounds the same?

 

I know there are many words in Thai that sound almost same, just have a different tone, and mean something different, but I never heard a similar sounding word.

I don't know of a perfect rhyme for the full three-syllable sequence, but if we were to rhyme each syllable by itself, we might have something like this:

 

ma-keua-tet

ma

na (polite expression)

ka (feminine polite expression)

 

keu-a

gleu-a (salt)

reu-a (boat)

 

tet

tet (false)

set (finished)

 

As for the "nam", it's just like in "Vietnam?".

 

Edited August 29, 2022 by AsianAtHeart

[AsianAtHeart]

24 minutes ago, peterfranks said:

Edit to add: I'm sure if an immigrant in the UK asks where trane or terrain London, everyone will understand him

But this is a language-specific example.  The grammar of English makes it easier to eliminate any other options as to the intended meaning.

 

Consider a Thai example, for contrast:

 

วานนี้ (wahn-nee) = yesterday

วันนี้ ("one knee") = today

 

There is very little phonetic distinction between these, yet context would give a person no clue as to which one was intended.  Either one could fit equally well into the grammar of the sentence, being parallel terms.  (Note that there is no tonal difference between these two words, only a slight vowel variation.)

[Dene16]

4 hours ago, Denim said:

it is a dead easy language to learn compared to German

don't know how you can say German is hard when so many words sound similar to English or begin with the same letter as in English. links left, rects  right, hund hound, frei free, zucker sugar, haben have, miich mik, auto car gold gold, tea tee, red rot and the list goes on and on. 

[peterfranks]

4 minutes ago, AsianAtHeart said:

But this is a language-specific example.  The grammar of English makes it easier to eliminate any other options as to the intended meaning.

 

Consider a Thai example, for contrast:

 

วานนี้ (wahn-nee) = yesterday

วันนี้ ("one knee") = today

 

There is very little phonetic distinction between these, yet context would give a person no clue as to which one was intended.  Either one could fit equally well into the grammar of the sentence, being parallel terms.  (Note that there is no tonal difference between these two words, only a slight vowel variation.)

Strange, I thought that yesterday is MU ONE - MOO ONE

 

Even Google agrees with me

 

Edited August 29, 2022 by peterfranks

[Nickelbeer]

Most of us came here because there was no requirement to speak Thai.  Such a requirement is a deal-killer.  No interest in learning their language, I am only interested in low cost of living.

[AsianAtHeart]

1 minute ago, peterfranks said:

Strange, I thought that yesterday is MU ONE - MOO ONE

Yes, "mu-wan" is the more common word to represent the concept.  But copy/paste that Thai word I gave you into Google Translate and you'll see what it is.  It's a more formal word, perhaps, and less often encountered.  This is part of the beauty/frustration with learning Thai.  Of course, English isn't much better--we have many words that essentially mean the same thing.