FBI found more than 11,000 government records at Trump's Florida home

[ozimoron]

4 minutes ago, billd766 said:

But, but, he and the Trump supporters have experts in everything.

Trump only hired the best. If Trump gets indicted they'll form a gang called "the Dirty Dozen".

[Dan O]

23 hours ago, habanero said:

All I've seen is a photo of a bunch of cover sheets. Anyone can get them.

Did you think they were going to show you the classified and top secret documents?

[placeholder]

1 hour ago, Mac Mickmanus said:

Ex-FBI lawyer agrees to one-year bar sanction after conviction

 

"Judge James Boasberg ordered Kevin Clinesmith, who admitted to altering an email used to justify a government wiretap of former Trump campaign adviser Carter Page, to serve one year’s probation and 400 hours of community service.?

 

https://www.reuters.com/legal/government/ex-fbi-lawyer-agrees-one-year-bar-sanction-after-conviction-2021-06-28/

And it wasJustice Dept Inspector General Horowitz who found that Clinesmith had forged the document. Horowitz referred his finding to John Durham.

https://www.foxnews.com/politics/horowitz-finds-evidence-fbi-employee-altered-russia-probe-document

[Dan O]

12 hours ago, Sparktrader said:

Nothing in them now. 

No because he took the papers out of the folders. They found them mixed in with clothes and in draws and scatter in various places. 

[Dan O]

7 hours ago, riclag said:

 

Its been reported.The documents with govt markings were declassified according  to kash patel trumps former aid and now one of his reps to the national archives! 
“The bottom line was he said this information has to get out to the American public,” Mr. Patel said in an interview Wednesday. Mr. Patel said he didn’t know what was in the boxes the Federal Bureau of Investigation seized earlier this month but believed prosecutors would have a hard time proving that the documents weren’t covered by Mr. Trump’s declassification orders.

https://www.wsj.com/articles/ex-white-house-aide-kash-patel-presses-view-trump-broadly-declassified-documents-11661083201
As a president when he was president he can decide what is personal , not others, according to a 2012 ruling.

Heres a quote from a expert,  former law clerk to the SCOUS

“Even if Trump took classified records, that isn't a crime. The president has the inherent constitutional power to declassify any record he wants, in any manner he wants, regardless of any otherwise-pertinent statute or regulation that applies to everyone else. The president does not need to obtain Congress' or a bureaucrat's permission—or jump through their regulatory or statutory hoops—to declassify anything”. 
https://www.newsweek.com/garland-wray-must-impeached-unconscionable-trump-raid-opinion-1733523

 I see the lefts ridiculous narrative that he stole documents another in the long line of manufactured spins. 

The problem with that excuse is that none of the documents were declassified and recorded\archived as such. You cant have a standing order that anything he touched or wanted to keep is declassified. They need to be tagged and recorded as declassified. Secondly, he wasn't President when he took the document from the Whitehouse.  And lastly he was warned in January and May to return those remaining documents after they were identified as being there in Mar a Largo when the other documents were retrieved. He signed an affidavit that he had already returned all Classified and Top Secret documents and had no more in his possession. 

 

Right wing Trumpettes look for any flimsy excuse to blow smoke when they have no facts

[Sparktrader]

36 minutes ago, Dan O said:

No because he took the papers out of the folders. They found them mixed in with clothes and in draws and scatter in various places. 

Proof?

[pomchop]

15 hours ago, LarrySR said:

If you love America you will immediately send money to Donald J Trump @ STOP THE STEAL

If you are a cult member that can see no evil hear no evil send your $$ on to a guy who is "really really rich" .

[Dan O]

1 hour ago, Sparktrader said:

Proof?

They have photos and of the docs spread in the closets with clothes and in drawers with his passports which show he was in personal contact with the docs and can't blame staff or claim they were in a secure location. . 

[heybruce]

9 hours ago, freedomnow said:

He also knows about USAs 'super weapon'...mentioned it in one interview - top secret papers or not...it's in his head, all the details.

 

"We have one weapon that could wipe out Russia"...maybe interview was with that sleazebag Piers Morgan about Biden not being tougher with Vlad the Impaler....

 

He may have been referring to a multihead nuke - but am sure it sounded like a new level of weapon tech unannounced.

Sounds like BS to me.  Trump entered office knowing next to nothing about anything nuclear.  He probably thought a multiple warhead ICBM, something that has been in US and USSR/Russia stockpiles for decades, was a super weapon.

[heybruce]

3 hours ago, Mac Mickmanus said:

FBI says they were classified documents .

Trump says he declassified the documents whilst in office and thus didn't need to hand them over   .

We will have to wait for the outcome to see what those documents were and whether they were important documents which required the FBI to raid his premises .

   Could be part of the never ending attempts to get Trump  impeached, prosecuted and jailed . Trying to use the laws to stop the democratic process 

 

Even if he did declassify the documents (there is no record that he did) they were still government property and he was required to hand them over.  He broke the law.  Accept it.

[Mac Mickmanus]

7 minutes ago, heybruce said:

Even if he did declassify the documents (there is no record that he did) they were still government property and he was required to hand them over.  He broke the law.  Accept it.

Why wasn't he arrested ?

If a person breaks the law, they get arrested and charged .

Why wasnt Trump taken away , along with the evidence of the crime committed ?

[Mac Mickmanus]

5 hours ago, ozimoron said:

Thanks, I appreciate the effort. So, a rogue agent and not the FBI officially as an organisation. It is possible I guess that there is a rogue player lying to a judge again but the chances of that happening again and to an ex president must be vanishingly small.

 

To be clear, I know the police and possibly the FBI have a bad record for faking and planting evidence but that's not everywhere all the time. And less likely in high profile cases. The FBI have always been a Republican led and overtly conservative organisation, paint me skeptical.

 

 

You have stated that the FBI are Republicans so they would have been biased towards Trump .

   Didnt the person who led the campaign the raid Donald and the Judge who signed the papers allowing the road , didn't they both have an anti Trump agenda ?

[heybruce]

31 minutes ago, Mac Mickmanus said:

Why wasn't he arrested ?

If a person breaks the law, they get arrested and charged .

Why wasnt Trump taken away , along with the evidence of the crime committed ?

Because it takes time to evaluate 11,000 documents and determine what charges to file.

[Mac Mickmanus]

15 minutes ago, heybruce said:

Because it takes time to evaluate 11,000 documents and determine what charges to file.

How long do you think that it is going to take ?

[heybruce]

31 minutes ago, Mac Mickmanus said:

How long do you think that it is going to take ?

Ask the FBI.

[Mac Mickmanus]

16 minutes ago, heybruce said:

Ask the FBI.

Top secret , its so top secret that they  cannot even say why its so top secret, that's how top secret it is 

[candide]

1 hour ago, Mac Mickmanus said:

You have stated that the FBI are Republicans so they would have been biased towards Trump .

   Didnt the person who led the campaign the raid Donald and the Judge who signed the papers allowing the road , didn't they both have an anti Trump agenda ?

Not everyone is biased. There are plenty of people who just try to do their job properly.

[bendejo]

15 hours ago, ozimoron said:

7 (seven) years Starr took to investigate Clinton and found nothing on the original complaint and had to settle for forcing Clinton to lie about a personal affair in order to protect his marriage which had nothing to do with anybody but wowsers didn't agree.  If anybody thinks that was some kind of national security threat then they need to take a cold shower.

I always saw the Lewinski affair as a comedic episode, with Big Bill as a buffoon caught with his pants around his ankles, Benny Hill style.  I never found out if he actually offered a p_ssy-flavored cigar to Arafat. 

Now that business of the secret deals with Iran before the 1980 election (by the GOP again), well, there was some nasty excrement there; and look at the way they stalled the case until Reagan was in his 2nd term. 

 

 

[heybruce]

24 minutes ago, Mac Mickmanus said:

Top secret , its so top secret that they  cannot even say why its so top secret, that's how top secret it is 

Yes, I'm familiar with secrets; I had a TS/BI when I was in the Air Force.  Sometimes even the titles of the documents are secret. 

 

However the projected timelines for the investigation are not secret.  Perhaps unknown even by the FBI (11,000 documents is a lot to wade through, then there's follow-up investigations to see what else is missing and might still be held by Trump), but not secret.

[Mac Mickmanus]

19 minutes ago, heybruce said:

Yes, I'm familiar with secrets; I had a TS/BI when I was in the Air Force.  Sometimes even the titles of the documents are secret. 

 

However the projected timelines for the investigation are not secret.  Perhaps unknown even by the FBI (11,000 documents is a lot to wade through, then there's follow-up investigations to see what else is missing and might still be held by Trump), but not secret.

If he had stolen documents in his possession , just one stolen document .

   What hasn't he been arrested and bailed ?

Just charge him with having the one stolen document at the moment and other charges to come later 

[riclag]

5 hours ago, Dan O said:

The problem with that excuse is that none of the documents were declassified and recorded\archived as such. You cant have a standing order that anything he touched or wanted to keep is declassified. They need to be tagged and recorded as declassified. Secondly, he wasn't President when he took the document from the Whitehouse.  And lastly he was warned in January and May to return those remaining documents after they were identified as being there in Mar a Largo when the other documents were retrieved. He signed an affidavit that he had already returned all Classified and Top Secret documents and had no more in his possession. 

 

Right wing Trumpettes look for any flimsy excuse to blow smoke when they have no facts

Well then ill have to weigh your opinion with the experts in these matters that I have  linked to in one of my prior posts.
I Think ill stick with the supreme court justice clerks expert opinion ,together with past incedents that lay questions to the reliability and trust of the six ways to sunday cabal intel agencies with respect to dealing with Trump  ! 

 

Edited September 4, 2022 by riclag

[placeholder]

5 hours ago, Sparktrader said:

Proof?

Actually, on that score Dan O offered a very favorable interpretation of why the classified folders are empty. The alternative explanation would be that the the documents they contained have gone missing.

Edited September 4, 2022 by placeholder

[placeholder]

16 minutes ago, riclag said:

Well then ill have to weigh your opinion with the experts in these matters that I have  linked to in one of my prior posts.
I Think ill stick with the supreme court justice clerks expert opinion ,together with past incedents that lay questions to the reliability and trust of the six ways to sunday cabal intel agencies with respect to 45 ! 

 

Good thinking. One distinctly minority opinion against a host of experts. 

[placeholder]

45 minutes ago, Mac Mickmanus said:

If he had stolen documents in his possession , just one stolen document .

   What hasn't he been arrested and bailed ?

Just charge him with having the one stolen document at the moment and other charges to come later 

Because that's not the way criminal investigations are done. And, God forbid, if the justice department did as you suggested, why wouldn't Trump supporters accuse them of singling out Trump for special punishment? And, if they did as you suggested, how could they justify not charging Trump separately for each document that he held?

[heybruce]

57 minutes ago, Mac Mickmanus said:

If he had stolen documents in his possession , just one stolen document .

   What hasn't he been arrested and bailed ?

Just charge him with having the one stolen document at the moment and other charges to come later 

Contact the FBI and Justice Department; I'm sure they would be happy to employ your expertise on these matters.

[riclag]

1 hour ago, Mac Mickmanus said:

If he had stolen documents in his possession , just one stolen document .

   What hasn't he been arrested and bailed ?

Just charge him with having the one stolen document at the moment and other charges to come later 

According to this expert Trump didnt steal documents !

 

[Dan O]

51 minutes ago, riclag said:

Well then ill have to weigh your opinion with the experts in these matters that I have  linked to in one of my prior posts.
I Think ill stick with the supreme court justice clerks expert opinion ,together with past incedents that lay questions to the reliability and trust of the six ways to sunday cabal intel agencies with respect to dealing with Trump  ! 

 

You can believe anyone you want to in this as there are an equal number of legal scholars that dispute that position. Thats the point behind the manner this has been handled, to solve the situation legally.

 

There's no conspiracy here like trumpettes like to claim.

 

There is no current record presented yet of trump issuing a declassification order only his verbal claim after he was caught. He already signed an affidavit in May that he held no more of these documents which was a lie. If he had used his authority to declassify that would have raised back in January or again in May. 

 

Depending on the nature of the documemt classification and the content there are additional regulations about the proper manner to declassify and record that action. Those records don't exist. He doesn't have to ask permission to declassify but he does have to follow proper legal precedent and protocol when he does take that action. Those other regulations have never been tested or waved for a President. As an aside one of the reasons behind those protocols and records is once declassified documents are available under FOI requests and can be released to the public. I don't know thats what anyone wants based on what Secrets are included in those document.

[heybruce]

1 hour ago, riclag said:

According to this expert Trump didnt steal documents !

 

The documents are clearly government property, they were clearly in Trump's possession, and he clearly fought returning them.  How does your "expert" figure that doesn't qualify as being stolen.

 

Don't refer us to videos, I want this hustler to put his legal opinion in writing so others can ridicule it.

[freedomnow]

5 hours ago, heybruce said:

Sounds like BS to me.  Trump entered office knowing next to nothing about anything nuclear.  He probably thought a multiple warhead ICBM, something that has been in US and USSR/Russia stockpiles for decades, was a super weapon.

Scalar weapons and everything beyond - they got them.

[Sparktrader]

2 hours ago, placeholder said:

Actually, on that score Dan O offered a very favorable interpretation of why the classified folders are empty. The alternative explanation would be that the the documents they contained have gone missing.

So making up theories

Thought so

 

Witch hunt