How to enter Thailand with a TR visa and extend it

[gejohesch]

I'm aware these may be recurrent questions but as the rules and regulations tend to change rather often in Thailand, I prefer to open a fresh discussion to ask the 3 following questions:

 

1) I will get a TR visa that allows me to stay 60 days in Thailand, and will get a 30 days extension at my local immigration bureau. I've done that a few times before, so that's not the question. However, I plan to book return flights from Europe and back with 3 1/2 months between the dates of entry and exit to/from Thailand. Will that cause a problem when checking at the departure point in Europe?

 

I know by experience that if going without a visa, therefore planning to enter Thailand with a visa exemption, the airlines may ask for the proof of an exit ticket from Thailand before the end of the visa exemption period. This has happened to me twice and by chance I could prove the "timely" exit. Otherwise, clearly the airlines would not have accepted me on the flights out of Europe.

 

With a TR visa (60 days), my understanding is that the airlines will not ask for proof of "timely" exit. Can someone confirm this?

 

2) My second question is similar to question 1), but at the immigration control when entering Thailand (will be BKK). Is there any risk of immigration raising an issue with a TR visa of 60 days and the return flight 3 1/2 months later?

 

3) If not getting a 30 days extension at the local immigration bureau, I may just make a visa run to Laos for 1 day. As I understand it, that would give me a fresh 30 days stay (on the visa exemption basis) when re-entering Thailand. Is that still applicable, or may I get a full 45 days' stay on re-entry (since the 30 days visa exemption period has recently been extended to 45 days)?

 

I hope I have laid out my questions clearly enough. To be honest, even with so many years of travel experience, I still get confused with all those rules and regs!

[Onerak]

39 minutes ago, gejohesch said:

I'm aware these may be recurrent questions but as the rules and regulations tend to change rather often in Thailand, I prefer to open a fresh discussion to ask the 3 following questions:

Sorry buddy. It does not change often. 

 

40 minutes ago, gejohesch said:

With a TR visa (60 days), my understanding is that the airlines will not ask for proof of "timely" exit. Can someone confirm this?

There is not guarantee. They may still ask for a return ticket and they have the right to deny boarding and you have the right to lodge a and take them to the court. Good luck with that. 

 

42 minutes ago, gejohesch said:

2) My second question is similar to question 1), but at the immigration control when entering Thailand (will be BKK). Is there any risk of immigration raising an issue with a TR visa of 60 days and the return flight 3 1/2 months later?

IOs generally don't ask for a return ticket and when they ask they have already decided to deny entry and just looking for an excuse. However, they also have every rights to ask for a return ticket and deny entry and you also have the right to lodge a complaint and good luck with that. 

 

45 minutes ago, gejohesch said:

If not getting a 30 days extension at the local immigration bureau, I may just make a visa run to Laos for 1 day. As I understand it, that would give me a fresh 30 days stay (on the visa exemption basis) when re-entering Thailand. Is that still applicable, or may I get a full 45 days' stay on re-entry (since the 30 days visa exemption period has recently been extended to 45 days)?

It's 45-days till March 31, 2023 as of now. It may also change. 

 

[persimmon]

I am in the same position as the OP . Last time I did this , the check-in lady for the flight seemed to think this was a problem , and did not know about how stays could be extended using extensions and visa runs . Only after consultation with her supervisor did she allow me to proceed . I was quite annoyed having to argue with someone so ignorant who thought they knew better than me .

Maybe I will check with the airline before departure this time , just to be sure .

[steve187]

no return ticket needed with a tourist visa

immigration will not worry about a return ticket, but they may worry about lots of other things, ie hotel, etc 

before 31st March you will get 45 days stamp on a visa exempt entry, you will not do a 'visa run' it will be a 'border hop'

[DrJack54]

5 hours ago, persimmon said:

I was quite annoyed having to argue with someone so ignorant who thought they knew better than me .

If you didn't have a visa or reentry permit and were planning on entering visa exempt the airline may wish to see onward flight within 30 days (currently 45).

The availability of 30 day extensions does not come into it. 

The airline clerk was correct.

You were wrong. 

 

OP, answer from @steve187 sums it up.

Depending on your recent history in Thailand you could consider visa exempt entry.

WIth "onward flight.com" you can rent a onward flight.

At 45day vs 60 day the visa exempt good option. 

[zzzzz]

often if u are entering on a visa exempt, you can ask for the supervisor an sign a waiver that makes the airline NOT responsible to send you back if ur denied entry

[gejohesch]

14 hours ago, Onerak said:

Sorry buddy. It does not change often. 

 

.......

 

It's 45-days till March 31, 2023 as of now. It may also change. 

 

Thanks for the reply ..... but "It does not change often"??????? ????????

[gejohesch]

13 hours ago, persimmon said:

I am in the same position as the OP . Last time I did this , the check-in lady for the flight seemed to think this was a problem , and did not know about how stays could be extended using extensions and visa runs . Only after consultation with her supervisor did she allow me to proceed . I was quite annoyed having to argue with someone so ignorant who thought they knew better than me .

Maybe I will check with the airline before departure this time , just to be sure .

"Maybe I will check with the airline before departure this time , just to be sure ."

 

I may be a bit paranoid but I would not even trust that, unless getting a written statement from the airlines, which I doubt could be easily obtained. As for getting some sort of statement via an online chat, who would guarantee me that I would not get the opinion / interpretation of the rules of one (or a few) airlines rep(s) at a given moment, and that I would be faced with the opinion / interpretation of the rules of other airlines reps at the time of checking in?

[gejohesch]

9 hours ago, steve187 said:

 

 

 

"no return ticket needed with a tourist visa"

Thanks for a clear answer. That's also what I understood were the rule, a few months ago at least.

 

"immigration will not worry about a return ticket, but they may worry about lots of other things, ie hotel, etc "

That fits with my own experience. I cannot count anymore how many times I entered Thailand over the years, but was never ever asked about anything. That seems to have changed this last year or so, when I was quizzed about the address I gave (my Thai partner's address up country).

 

"before 31st March you will get 45 days stamp on a visa exempt entry, you will not do a 'visa run' it will be a 'border hop'"

Thanks. 45 days, will that also be the case if entering via land? Thailand has at times (often?) made different rules for entries via air and via land routes.

 

Thanks for the correction "border hop"! ????

[gejohesch]

8 hours ago, DrJack54 said:

 

 

"If you didn't have a visa or reentry permit and were planning on entering visa exempt the airline may wish to see onward flight within 30 days (currently 45).

The availability of 30 day extensions does not come into it. 

The airline clerk was correct.

You were wrong. "

 

That's correct as far as I know.

 

"OP, answer from @steve187 sums it up.

Depending on your recent history in Thailand you could consider visa exempt entry.

WIth "onward flight.com" you can rent a onward flight.

At 45day vs 60 day the visa exempt good option. "

 

That's really the point.

 

As long as the visa exemption was 30 days, I preferred to get a 60 days TR visa which a) I could easily extend once in Thailand; b) avoided the request of "proof of exit" by the airline when checking in; c) avoided the need of a "border hop" - easier and less costly to extend the visa at the local immigration bureau, compared to making a short trip out of Thailand and back in.

 

However, with the current 45 days visa exemption, I am now hesitating. Hence starting this discussion.

 

I'm aware of the possibility to "rent an onward flight". Never done it before and I'm a bit weary about online scams (so many of them!). Anyone has recent experience with that option?

 

At this point, I will try to recap:

 

I have 2 options : Option 1 = TR visa vs Option 2 = visa exemptions.

There are 5 points to consider when comparing these 2 options:

point A = total duration of stay possible

point B = costs

point C = any issue when checking in for departure flight?

point D = any issue at immigration when arriving in BKK?

point E = convenience

 

So here I go:

 

point A = total duration of stay possible:

Option 1 gives me 60 + 30 days extension = 90 days total

Option 2 gives me 45 + 45 days again after "border hop" = 90 days total

 

Verdict : no difference between the 2 options.

 

point B = costs

Option 1 : cost of TR Visa = 40 EUR + cost of 30 days extension = sthg around 2000 THB if I remember correctly : petrol consumption for return trip to local immigration bureau (120 kms return trip), cost of extension itself + cost of a document certifying my address in Thailand (500 THB at the immigration bureau).

Total : 40 EUR + 50 EUR (2000 THB) = 90 EUR

 

Option 2 : I would say close to 100 EUR : petrol consumption for a 500 km return trip to Nong Khai where my Thai partner will drop me, 30 USD visa at the Laos border etc; plus most likely a 1 night stay at a hotel either in Vientiane or in Nong Khai.

 

Verdict : these are obviously cost estimates and can only be approximate, but all in all I cannot see any real difference between the 2 options.

 

point C = any issue when checking in for departure flight?

Option 1 = TR Visa. No questioning by airlines when checking in.

Option 2 = visa exemption (followed by border hop). Possible request by airline to show proof of exit before end of 45 days visa exemption period.

 

Verdict : as I will have a return booking from Europe and back over a 3 1/2 months period, Option 1 is better. Option 2 would add the need to have "onward trip rental" to be safe.

 

point D = any issue at immigration when arriving in BKK?

Option 1 = TR Visa.

Option 2 = visa exemption (followed by border hop). Possibility of more questioning at immigration if I only have a return booking to Europe 3 1/2 months later.

 

Verdict : Option 1 is better.

 

point E = convenience

Option 1 = TR Visa. My local Thailand embassy is at an easy 1/2 bus trip from where I live. I'm very used to putting together the docs required for the visa application, plus the procedure has become simpler than during the last 2+ years when COVID was raging around. The Thai consulate does not ask me to provide an insurance anymore. There is no ASQ, no Thai Entry Permit anymore etc.

The visa extension would be an affair of a few hours going to the local immigration, doing the extension and back.

Option 2 = visa exemption (followed by border hop). As said above, that would be a 500 km round trip to Nong Khai and back, plus crossing the border etc. 

 

Verdict : Option 1 is better. Faster for sure.

 

Bottom Line : Option 1 = 60 days TR Visa + 30 days extension comes out as better option.

 

I'm aware this was a long rambling, but I had to go through the whole thinking process and had to write it all down for clarity. So why not write it here to allow reactions, further advice etc? In any case, thanks for your patience! 

[persimmon]

10 hours ago, DrJack54 said:

If you didn't have a visa or reentry permit and were planning on entering visa exempt the airline may wish to see onward flight within 30 days (currently 45).

The availability of 30 day extensions does not come into it. 

The airline clerk was correct.

You were wrong. 

 

OP, answer from @steve187 sums it up.

Depending on your recent history in Thailand you could consider visa exempt entry.

WIth "onward flight.com" you can rent a onward flight.

At 45day vs 60 day the visa exempt good option. 

Sorry , I should have made it clear that I did have a tourist visa . The check-in lady questioned why my return flight was more than 60 days after my arrival . She obviously did not really know anything about Thailand`s visa system .

[PumpkinEater]

I just flew from YYZ to BKK via NRT with a Tourist Visa.

Air Canada check in counter did not see that I had a return ticket and queried me.

I showed her my “onward ticket” to Malaysia from my Ipad…only then she was satisfied.

 

Airlines DO ASK with a TR!

[gejohesch]

9 hours ago, PumpkinEater said:

I just flew from YYZ to BKK via NRT with a Tourist Visa.

Air Canada check in counter did not see that I had a return ticket and queried me.

I showed her my “onward ticket” to Malaysia from my Ipad…only then she was satisfied.

 

Airlines DO ASK with a TR!

Ah, that's interesting! Your experience is the same then as the one of Persimmon (reply just before yours) : airlines can ask for an onward ticket even with a TR visa. This is new to me but I must say, I had doubts (hence my starting this post). So now, I will modify my plan (exposed above) and will factor in a side trip outside Thailand at the end of the 60 days TR visa period. I planned a side trip anyway for later on, after a 30 days TR visa extension, so making it earlier is no issue. I will get a 45 days visa exemption when coming back to Thailand.

 

To recap:

 

Option 3 = Option 1 Modified: TR Visa 60 days + Visa exemption 45 days = total 105 days

That beats "Option 1 = 90 days" with an additional benefit in doing so : I will not even have to bother about the TR visa extension!

Also, I will then have a flight booked outside Thailand before the end of the initial 60 days TR Visa period, which I will be able to show when checking in when departing from Europe.

Edited October 9, 2022 by gejohesch
adding a line

[JGon]

When I requested a E-Visa (Tourist Visa) with my local Thai consulate, they will not approve the Visa without a return ticket before the end of the 60 day period. On top of all the other documents they request (Bank statements, Hotel, Pictures). 

[gejohesch]

27 minutes ago, JGon said:

When I requested a E-Visa (Tourist Visa) with my local Thai consulate, they will not approve the Visa without a return ticket before the end of the 60 day period. On top of all the other documents they request (Bank statements, Hotel, Pictures). 

Where was that? That sounds excessive! Pictures? What pictures?

 

The embassy I deal with (in the EU) issued me a TR visa twice already, and each time I had a return ticket with a return date way past the 60 days (initial) period. Then again, I did a bit of prior explanation to them about my plans.

[DrJack54]

On 10/8/2022 at 4:08 PM, gejohesch said:

Option 1 gives me 60 + 30 days extension = 90 days total

Option 2 gives me 45 + 45 days again after "border hop" = 90 days total

I will just pick this one point. 

Others are also incorrect.

 

SETV gives 60 stamp.

Visa exempt (currently till March 31 2023) gives 45 day stamp.

Both options can be extended by 30 days. 

So it's 90 vs 75.

 

As for onward flight the "rent a ticket" works without issue and many posts over time confirm this. Cost ~$14 usd. 

There are other options. 

 

Land border entries visa exempt also give 45 days and can be extended by 30.

Limit 2 per calendar year.

 

Just choose an option. It isn't rocket science.

IMO most folk will not bother with tourist visa during 45 day period for visa exempt. 

 

 

[gejohesch]

1 hour ago, DrJack54 said:

I will just pick this one point. 

Others are also incorrect.

 

SETV gives 60 stamp.

Visa exempt (currently till March 31 2023) gives 45 day stamp.

Both options can be extended by 30 days. 

So it's 90 vs 75. 

 

 

I said Visa exempt + border hop (i.e. not an extension). As far as I understand, reentering after a border hop gives me a new 45 days exemption period. Or am I wrong?

 

Which "others" are wrong, may I ask?

[DrJack54]

15 minutes ago, gejohesch said:

I said Visa exempt + border hop (i.e. not an extension). As far as I understand, reentering after a border hop gives me a new 45 days exemption period. Or am I wrong?

 

Which "others" are wrong, may I ask?

You compared tv +30 day extension to visa exempt entry 45 days + border run.

 

Seems silly to me. 

Tv + extension vs visa exempt+ extension is more sensible comparison.

Bottom line 90 vs 75.

The border runs can follow from both options.

 

One other "wrong" was the doubts re rent onward flight sites such as "onwardflight.com" 

Many posts regarding this. 

 

In any event do what you want. 

The options are very clear.

The analysis is unimpressive. 

 

Don't think I read the length of desired stay. 

For longer stays it's best to do first one or two entries via air using visa exempt.

That keeps tourist visa entries via air up your sleeve.

Easily obtained at nearby countries. 

Edited October 9, 2022 by DrJack54

[gejohesch]

2 hours ago, DrJack54 said:

One other "wrong" was the doubts re rent onward flight sites such as "onwardflight.com" 

Many posts regarding this. 

How can having doubts be wrong? If I had said renting onward flights are not an option, then yes, that would be wrong. Seems to me you are just a tad too quick to criticize.

[Alidiver]

Will you actually get a tourist visa?

You have to upload flight details on your online application.

[gejohesch]

3 hours ago, Alidiver said:

Will you actually get a tourist visa?

You have to upload flight details on your online application.

As I said just a few messages above, I have landed (!) on the following option:

 

"Option 3 = Option 1 Modified: TR Visa 60 days + Visa exemption 45 days = total 105 days

That beats "Option 1 = 90 days" with an additional benefit in doing so : I will not even have to bother about the TR visa extension!

Also, I will then have a flight booked outside Thailand before the end of the initial 60 days TR Visa period, which I will be able to show when checking in when departing from Europe."

 

So yes, I will get a tourist visa. From my local Thailand consulate, not online (I was not aware one could do it online). The return flights reservation is one of the docs required for the application. Let me quote, for the sake of completeness, what the Thailand consulate tells me in this regard:

 

"Normally, to issue a TR visa we accept the return ticket with the validity of 90 days from the date of your entry into Thailand given that you can apply for an additional 30 day extension"

 

Btw, maybe I was not clear about that and caused some confusion (with other participants on this post), but I'm not interested in a stay exceeding 3 1/2 months.

[ericthai]

 

Why dont you just get an extension to the TR visa?

Prior to the TR visa expiring you go to immigration and extend for 30 days (1900THB) very easy to do (60+30=90 days).  If you need more time then do a boarder hop for a visa exempt entry 45 days (90+45=135) and if you need more time after that boarder hop then go to immigration to extend that entry for another 30 days to give you a total of 165 days only leaving Thailand once and if you need more time you can do another visa exempt via land boarder crossing. 

 

I dont understand why if you get a TR visa that you dont want to extend the TR visa, you're losing 30 days available to you to stay longer without having to leave Thailand.

[gejohesch]

11 hours ago, ericthai said:

 

Why dont you just get an extension to the TR visa?

Prior to the TR visa expiring you go to immigration and extend for 30 days (1900THB) very easy to do (60+30=90 days).  If you need more time then do a boarder hop for a visa exempt entry 45 days (90+45=135) and if you need more time after that boarder hop then go to immigration to extend that entry for another 30 days to give you a total of 165 days only leaving Thailand once and if you need more time you can do another visa exempt via land boarder crossing. 

 

I dont understand why if you get a TR visa that you dont want to extend the TR visa, you're losing 30 days available to you to stay longer without having to leave Thailand.

I understand what you are saying, but you have not read me well, see just above. Allow me to repeat:

 

"Btw, maybe I was not clear about that and caused some confusion (with other participants on this post), but I'm not interested in a stay exceeding 3 1/2 months."

 

Basically, to achieve a stay of 3 1/2 months, i.e. 105 days, I will have to get out of Thailand once whatever combination of TR visa / visa exemption / extension I consider. I have made a simple decision tree to make that clear (to myself to start with!). See the jpeg attached. I have given new Option names (A, B, C and D) to the 4 combinations I can think of. Given my objective = 105 days, Option B (TR Visa + border hop) is the best one as I will not need to go to the local immigration bureau to apply for an extension.

 

My second best option would be Option C (Visa exemption + extension + border hop), which would give me a total stay of 120 days. But, again, I do not need 120 days. Also, It is easier for me to get the visa where I am in Europe than to go to the immigration office in Thailand for an extension.

 

At the end of the day, every one will have to find his/her good solution given his / hers own objectives and constraints. I hope this clarifies!

 

 

[orchis]

Thai embassy/consulate at my location uses only e-visa system.
TR visa requires a return flight on there.
Delivery time is 3 to 4 weeks, there is a fee.
 

I would choose visa exempt; do not need to apply, no waiting time, no fee, can do 45 + 30 days and border run after that.

[gejohesch]

2 hours ago, orchis said:

Thai embassy/consulate at my location uses only e-visa system.
TR visa requires a return flight on there.
Delivery time is 3 to 4 weeks, there is a fee.
 

I would choose visa exempt; do not need to apply, no waiting time, no fee, can do 45 + 30 days and border run after that.

That makes sense given your constraints. It's amazing how Thai consulates are different from place to place. Where I am (in the EU), I have done visas with the Thai consulate twice already. Easy, I send them a copy of the docs, they give me an appointment, I never wait more than 15-30 minutes and hand over the paper prints. 3 days later they send me an appointment to go and collect my passport with the visa, and pay (40 EUR if I remember correctly). It's easy, no fuss. Plus it's an easy and very cheap short ride on the bus from my place. Given that, you understand that I prefer to get a TR visa, and arrange a short border hop to get an extra 45 days on visa exemption, and so achieve my objective = a stay of 105 days.

 

Note that may be different in other EU countries, especially where there is a lot of demand for visas.

 

As said, everyone has his/hers constraints and objectives, hence different solutions.

[Des1]

I need some assistance. I am in Canada and applying online for a METV (multi-entry).

I just received this email from the Thai embassy in Canada:

Dear Applicant, To complete your visa application, please send the following documents in pdf format to email : [email protected]. 1. A Travel plan/itinerary stated clearly the purpose and schedule of the multiple entries during a validity of the visa (6 months) Thank you

I'm not sure what I need to send them? Can I just say I'm visiting friends in Thailand and also plan trips out of the country? Do I need to give dates and destinations?

I really just plan to spend the winter in Thailand and do visa runs every two months.

Thanks for your help!
 

[gejohesch]

10 hours ago, Des1 said:

I need some assistance. I am in Canada and applying online for a METV (multi-entry).

I just received this email from the Thai embassy in Canada:

Dear Applicant, To complete your visa application, please send the following documents in pdf format to email : [email protected]. 1. A Travel plan/itinerary stated clearly the purpose and schedule of the multiple entries during a validity of the visa (6 months) Thank you

I'm not sure what I need to send them? Can I just say I'm visiting friends in Thailand and also plan trips out of the country? Do I need to give dates and destinations?

I really just plan to spend the winter in Thailand and do visa runs every two months.

Thanks for your help!
 

I am not Canadian, I do not live in Canada and I do not have any experience with the Thai embassy in Canada. Therefore my opinion must be taken with a grain of salt. However, reading through the text you quoted, received from the embassy, I can offer my interpretation:

"a travel plan / itinerary" + "clearly" + "schedule" : that to me implies more than just a vague statement on "planning trips out of the country". They want dates and probably destinations. Quite possibly also proof of planned exits i.e. travel reservations.

 

Why don't you ask the embassy for clarification?

 

Someone said earlier in this discussion "this is not rocket science", which I found a bit disdainful. Sure, it is not in principle "rocket science" and once a given person has landed on his / hers personal solution, everything seems clear to him / her. But it is obvious here that many people feel uncertain about how to proceed and have questions given:

A) one's plans + objectives + constraints;

B) the various entry options (visas etc);

C) the different approach of the Thai embassies in different countries.

[chubby]

i'm glad you asked, as I've been mulling over the new 45 day thing. guess I'll go for the 60 TR with extension as needed.

 

but, put it this way, have you ever heard of *anyone with a TR and a return ticket in 60-90 days from arrival being *denied to board a flight to thailand?

 

 

I don't think this happens, hence this post appears overdone, unless its kii-niao mak mak    in nature

[gejohesch]

11 hours ago, chubby said:

i'm glad you asked, as I've been mulling over the new 45 day thing. guess I'll go for the 60 TR with extension as needed.

 

but, put it this way, have you ever heard of *anyone with a TR and a return ticket in 60-90 days from arrival being *denied to board a flight to thailand?

 

 

I don't think this happens, hence this post appears overdone, unless its kii-niao mak mak    in nature

A 60 days TR visa

I travelled twice with a 60 days TR visa and a return booking 90 days from the onward trip - each time with Emirates. Emirates did not raise any issue when checking in. But I cannot guarantee this will always be the case.

 

As far as obtaining the 60 days TR visa, here is what my local Thailand embassy tell me (email exchanges):

 

"Normally, to issue a TR visa we accept the return ticket with the validity of 90 days from the date of your entry into Thailand given that you can apply for an additional 30 day extension. 

Even for the multiple entry TR visa, we still need a return ticket for the second trip to Thailand."

 

and "When the applicant applies for a multiple entry TR visa, we request all return tickets, at least the first and second visits"

 

I did not prod any further as I'm not going to ask for a multiple entry visa.

 

B Visa Exemption

I travelled several times on that basis. At least twice, leaving from Europe, I was asked at the checkin desk to show an onward booking out of Thailand before the end of the exemption period. By chance, I had such a booking ready at hand. Clearly, the airlines were not going to accept me in otherwise.