Onward flight unpopular forum opinion

[aussiexpat]

3 hours ago, KIngsofisaan said:

Do you honestly think every single person that comes into Thailand is going to have the same experience as you?  

 

Good grief!

And yet the onward flight brigade believe everyone needs an onward flight or you'll be 100% denied boarding lol

 

Just showing the opposite perspective

 

Edited October 12, 2022 by aussiexpat

[aussiexpat]

Having worked in aviation management for over 20 years (35 years total), wondering how many airlines really care about the cost of one possible passenger not being accepted by Thai immigration. I mean they make billions of $ per year, but the main reason given on here for requiring an onward flight is the airline has to fly you out of Thailand at their cost, omg, the impact to the airline must be profit destroying to give up an otherwise empty seat lol

 

If ever questioned by airline, ask to see supervisor/manager, show proof of funds to fly out, they'll always crumble to keep your flight and future business

 

Edited October 12, 2022 by aussiexpat

[bear9]

1 hour ago, aussiexpat said:

Having worked in aviation management for over 20 years (35 years total), wondering how many airlines really care about the cost of one possible passenger not being accepted by Thai immigration. I mean they make billions of $ per year, but the main reason given on here for requiring an onward flight is the airline has to fly you out of Thailand at their cost, omg, the impact to the airline must be profit destroying to give up an otherwise empty seat lol

 

If ever questioned by airline, ask to see supervisor/manager, show proof of funds to fly out, they'll always crumble to keep your flight and future business

 

Would it not make more sense to have a simple onward fly ticket which is cheap or free if you purchase fully refundable ticket.

 

It makes no sense to give yourself the hassle of purchasing an onward ticket at an airport when you have limited time or giving yourself the trouble of speaking to a manager.

 

Its really not that difficult and simple just have the onward ticket to begin with.

[Lemsta69]

4 hours ago, aussiexpat said:

Having worked in aviation management for over 20 years (35 years total), wondering how many airlines really care about the cost of one possible passenger not being accepted by Thai immigration. I mean they make billions of $ per year, but the main reason given on here for requiring an onward flight is the airline has to fly you out of Thailand at their cost, omg, the impact to the airline must be profit destroying to give up an otherwise empty seat lol

 

If ever questioned by airline, ask to see supervisor/manager, show proof of funds to fly out, they'll always crumble to keep your flight and future business

 

https://airlines.iata.org/analysis/document-verification-travel-trouhttps://airlines.iata.org/analysis/document-verification-travel-trouble

 

you're welcome!

[Boomer6969]

12 hours ago, aussiexpat said:

Either way, airline or immigration have never resulted in an issue with my one way or return flight ticket well past the 30 day visa exempt entry into Thailand

U must be so hansum mate.

[Sparktrader]

6 hours ago, aussiexpat said:

And yet the onward flight brigade believe everyone needs an onward flight or you'll be 100% denied boarding lol

 

Just showing the opposite perspective

 

It depends on  staff members, airlines how busy etc

 

Most staff dont care. Only if boss says so.

[Sparktrader]

Why not buy a ticket to siem reap. Have an adventure.

[Orinoco]

Asked 2 or 3 times in 22 years at BKK.

No return ticket,  Visa check near every time uk airports.

 

Ps Had flights from many different countries to BKK ,never a problem at check in, with a one way ticket, ( company paid ticket )

if that makes any difference.

 

 

Edited October 12, 2022 by Orinoco

[Sparktrader]

Expedia ticket $2300 one way

 

Better be fully refundable

[blazes]

15 minutes ago, Sparktrader said:

Expedia ticket $2300 one way

 

Better be fully refundable

 

????

one way from where to where???

 

Why not book one-way BKK to SGN (Ho Chi Minh City) for about $50 (cancellable once in Bkk)??  This  is all you need to show you're going to be a good boy and get the fk out of there in good time....

[kingstonkid]

The return onward ticket I think is for 2 reasons

 

1 airline wants to make money

 

2 airline has had to deal with people rejected meaning they have to take you back at their expense.

 

Mostly it is a CYA

 

If airline doesn't ask for it don't worry about it 

Edited October 13, 2022 by kingstonkid

[BumGun]

I have never had a problem at immigration, so it's not surprising you haven't been asked either I guess ? 

 

I have been been asked about return tickets a few times at both OOL (Gold Coast when I used to go Gold Coast, KL, Phnom Penh on Air Asia) ) or BNE (Brisbane, various airlines) over the years, I'd say maybe asked 1 in 10 times ? In the old days I always said I was just traveling by bus across the border (been if I wasn't and a bit hard to use that excuse in The Philippines)  I haven't been back to SE Asia since Covid.  As suggested by others if you do get caught out and they insist, step away from the counter and buy a cheap fare OR an expansive one and get it refunded... if necessary. I have always just been polite and got around it the few times its happened.

[Photoguy21]

15 hours ago, FarAngMoh said:

Isn’t it usually the airline that is more of a stickler about having the onward/return ticket, unless you have a residency type of visa?

Yes, the airlines are the problem. I had this when I was leaving Canada for Thailand. The airline could not understand that I could enter Thailand on a British passport for 30 days without a visa.

[bamnutsak]

Every airline has their own internal system which normally requires an agent, at the point of departure, to tick a  box (saying this requiremnt is met with this passenger) which, in the event of a denied entry at the destinaiton can be referred back to.

In the case of OLCI/Kiosk check-ins you might be referred to a live rep. for clearance.

And you may be denied boarding (IDB) without proof of onward travel.

Arriving Immigration can ask any questions they want, and ultimately deny entry based on any number of real or vague reasons. In all honesty, they already have a manifest (APPS), issued as soon as the flight departs for THL, which has been scrubbed by Imm and Customs for those who will get extra scrutiny at arriving Immigration.

I guess you could get to the airport early, and if denied then book an onward ticket for the ~ $15. This can be done online in a matter of minutes. This might address the OP's concerrns?

 

There are very few fully refundable tickets these days, maybe full fare F/J/Y. Yes, there are various levels of rebookings, credit, partial refunds.

 

 

 

 

 

Edited October 13, 2022 by bamnutsak

[Makoshark]

Hey Aussie,

 

Dr. Jack & Ubon Joe have been on this site for many years relating VISA information.  Both of them are ALWAYS 100% correct in their advice.

 

And YES, they are correct with onward flight.

 

Read the requirements from the USA embassy.  For a Tourist visa, you absolutely NEED an "onward ticket"  If you go the visa exempt route, you MUST provide paperwork on Insurance.

 

KEEP UP THE GREAT WORK "J & J"   .  We need guys like you, giving us proper info about a country where the rules change daily. 

 

 

[LukKrueng]

There's a lot of misunderstanding of the issue of onward\return ticket. Many passengers as well as airline check in staff confuse the issue.

The regulations regarding the need\no need is set by the country (in this case Thailand) and the airlines are supposed to verify all passengers have all needed documents for their travel.

The basic idea of a return\onward ticket is that if a passenger is refused entry he\she has a ticket in hand so the airline won't be responsible for that passenger. The idea that the return ticket must be dated according to the length of stay one gets when stamped in is wrong as 1 might get an extension or travel to another country and return at a later date to catch the next flight.

According to Thai rules of a person doesn't hold a valid visa to enter Thailand, that person must have an onward or return ticket. If the airline staff or IO upon arrival check that or not is a throw of the dice

[node]

I flew with Thai into the LOS last week, and was asked for my onward ticket out of LOS until I showed the lad my visa. 

A couple with two kids also on the same flight had to buy (4) ticket on the spot to Sydney to get on the flight.

They wanted to spend a few days in Thailand then look at tickets.

The airline would be fined for bringing in a visitor that does not have an onward ticket if they do not hold the right to live in that country. 

[fotunate]

FYI: Recently (less than a week ago) I applied thru evisa for a setv with Thai NYC consulate, included was my flight booking for a return 89 days from my arrival date. Two days later I received an automatic reply asking for a outbound flight booking from Thailand less than 60 gays from my arrival into Thailand. I replied rapidly with a one way outbound booking to meet this request. I received my setv confirmation one day later. It appears to me the Thai NYC consulate evisa system is fairly automated as I submitted my initial request on a Saturday and the following Monday was a US National holiday.Overall I am very satisfied with NYC Consulate timely response and performance.

[spambot]

10 hours ago, Lemsta69 said:

https://airlines.iata.org/analysis/document-verification-travel-trouhttps://airlines.iata.org/analysis/document-verification-travel-trouble

 

you're welcome!

Good article find Lemsta69

 

It gives a lot of insight on the costs for associated considerations if a passenger is refused entry, "Fines average out at $3,500 per passenger and airlines then have to fly the incorrectly documented traveler back to their country of origin", hence its not just the cost of taking the passenger back, but includes paying high fines. 

 

On an associated link from the site a different article shows that an average airline per passenger spent is around $183 on fuel, salaries, and operating expenses to deliver each traveler to their destination. The resulting net profit however is just $6.12 per passenger (a bit more than the price of a Big Mac). Obviously the cost of returning a passenger to their destination is much higher than the profit available and likely an important consideration for most airlines.

 

ITAT.org is a good source for information, but one of the observations in the article says "The airline document check is normally limited to a visual examination to identify possible fraud ". This is however probably a little outdated since 2016 as a lot of systems have changed. If they hadn't then opportunity for using fraudulent flight documents might exist and Photoshop could be just as effective as an onward flight ticket service.

 

Its worth understanding that if you do not have a suitable Visa in your passport then the check-in agent is essentially looking for the outward flight 6 digit PNR (Passenger Name Record) number and checking that this is authentic. 

 

However not all airlines are as capable for identifying PNR's - There are three main  Global Distribution Systems (GDSs) Amadeus, Sabre and Travelport, each are giant storage of their own PNR's (plus other data). If the onward flight Arline uses the same GDS as the check-in airline then PNR can be validated. If they are different GDR's, then if Airline alliances exist this allows for sharing of data even between disparate GDR's. There are also other PNR co-operations facilitated between airlines independent of these alliances and available via third party software services allowing this by subscription. Much of this is however very expensive for the airlines and hence many of the smaller low cost airlines do not make this investment and using Photoshop could work in this situation. This is clearly complex for an individual to research an airline's capability and probably not worth the effort in order to save $9 - $14  from 'rent a ticket' providers. 

 

One option that might be a workaround (at least for the airline check-in attendant issue) is to check-in online and you will not need to go to the airport check-in and you can directly go through to security by printing the boarding card (after online check-in is completed) or simply use the electronic boarding card provided on your smart-phone. This only works if you have no check-in luggage.

 

If you do not check-in online some airlines provide automated passenger check-in kiosks and again there is no opportunity for a human asking to see the onward flight. Software is being developed for the Kiosks to make this check but this is only a future consideration and Kiosks currently do not do this. Further If you do have luggage to check-in then some of the automated Kiosks also provide this service, but this does not appear to be widespread for many airlines.

 

 

 

 

 

[Lemsta69]

11 minutes ago, spambot said:

check-in online and you will not need to go to the airport check-in and you can directly go through to security by printing the boarding card (after online check-in is completed) or simply use the electronic boarding card provided on your smart-phone. This only works if you have no check-in luggage.

funny you should mention that because way back in 2014 I flew Emirates from SYD-BKK I did exactly that and went to the gate to wait for boarding. 

 

to my surprise they called my name out over the Tannoy and when I went to the desk to see what was up they scolded me for not checking in at the airside counters. 

 

this was not mentioned at any time during the booking or online check-in process. I told them that but they said something to the effect of "ignorance is no excuse".  you can't argue with that at the airport.

[spambot]

3 minutes ago, Lemsta69 said:

funny you should mention that because way back in 2014 I flew Emirates from SYD-BKK I did exactly that and went to the gate to wait for boarding. 

 

to my surprise they called my name out over the Tannoy and when I went to the desk to see what was up they scolded me for not checking in at the airside counters. 

 

this was not mentioned at any time during the booking or online check-in process. I told them that but they said something to the effect of "ignorance is no excuse".  you can't argue with that at the airport.

Ha - Good Comment Lemsta69

 

It sounds like a bit of an error made by the airline at the communications and IT level, but as you say not really possible to argue the issue.

 

A quick reference (text bellow): Gatwick airport UK Link

Online check-in

Many of our airlines offer online check-in from two to 24 hours before departure.

You will be able to choose your seat and print your boarding pass or simply save an electronic version on your phone or the airline's app.

When you get to the airport, simply take your bags to the bag drop facility for your airline, or if you are travelling with hand luggage only, then head straight to security. 

Self-service check-in

Several of our airlines offer you the option to use their self service check-in kiosks at the airport. Save time by using the self-service check-in terminal to choose your seat and print your boarding card. Airline staff will be on hand if you need help. Once you've checked in then head to bag drop with your checked-in luggage.

The following airlines operate self-service check-in at Gatwick – but not all passengers and routes are eligible to use the service - please ask a member of staff if you're in doubt.

• British Airways
• easyJet
• Norwegian
• WestJet

Manchester Airport similar instructions regards online check-in  Link

 

Self-service check-in

The distinctive lime green self-service check-in machines are located throughout the terminals, offering you a hassle-free way of checking in, at no extra cost. The quick and easy to use machines help to eliminate queues, allowing you to confirm your booking and print your boarding card in no time at all! If you have baggage, you can take it to a bag drop or if you only have hand baggage you can proceed straight to security control.

Online check-in

Online check-in offers you the ability to check yourself in and print your boarding passes in the comfort of your own home or at the office (a printer is required). Once you get to the airport if you have baggage you can take it to the bag drop, or if you only have hand baggage you can proceed directly to security control. 

Express check-in

Get through the airport quicker with the help of our self-service Express check-in kiosks. User-friendly touch screen kiosks help to eliminate queues and hassle, enabling you to check-in and print your own boarding card in no time at all. Self check-in kiosks are located within the departures areas of Terminals 1, 2 and 3.

Five simple steps to Express check-in

1. Identify yourself by entering your passport, credit card or e-ticket number.

2. Follow the on-screen instructions to confirm your booking.

3. Print and collect your boarding card.

4. If you have bags, drop them off at one of the special bag drop desks (follow the signs to locate your nearest bag drop kiosk).

5. Proceed directly to security.

[Lemsta69]

51 minutes ago, spambot said:

This is clearly complex for an individual to research an airline's capability and probably not worth the effort in order to save $9 - $14  from 'rent a ticket' providers. 

imho this is the simplest option and the easiest and quickest to explain to people that ask the question.  do they really need to know all the whys and wherefores of the somewhat convoluted subject?

 

so yeah, I'm not sure why the OP has beef with that approach when it's offered as advice on here.  it's certainly a lot less stressful than arguing with a supervisor as he has subsequently suggested even though the stated purpose of his post was to relieve peoples' alleged stress ????

Edited October 13, 2022 by Lemsta69
typo

[Lemsta69]

2 hours ago, node said:

I flew with Thai into the LOS last week, and was asked for my onward ticket out of LOS until I showed the lad my visa. 

A couple with two kids also on the same flight had to buy (4) ticket on the spot to Sydney to get on the flight.

They wanted to spend a few days in Thailand then look at tickets.

The airline would be fined for bringing in a visitor that does not have an onward ticket if they do not hold the right to live in that country. 

oh that poor family!  I first encountered that sort of thing way back in 1997 on my first trip to SEA.  a mate and I flew BNE-DPS on Royal Brunei Airlines and the sheila at the check-in desk point blank refused to board us without an onward ticket from Indo.  we had tickets from Bangkok to India but that was apparently no good.

 

so I was forced to pay for two expensive Qantas tickets from Medan to Penang. naturally we were stamped in to Bali without any nosy questions.  it took 18 months to get the refund and I had to visit multiple offices in Bali, Singapore and Sydney. 

 

it was a good learning experience I guess but geez I'm glad I don't have to go through all that <deleted> nowadays.

[spambot]

Just a quick consideration however bearing in mind my previous comments made by airports - However some airlines have specific requirements in their T&C's.

 

For example British Airways says..

• Check in from 24 hours before your flight departs with the British Airways app.
• Available for mobile, iPad and Apple Watch.
• Download your boarding pass (for flights departing within 24 hours) for return and (where possible) connecting flights.
• At the airport
• Can use our airport kiosks to check in and print your boarding pass.
• All you need is your booking reference (PNR) or passport.

BUT......in a separate part on a different page it has small print:

 

Always ensure you have the correct travel documentation for the country you are travelling to.

If you're travelling on an intercontinental flight from London Heathrow we will need to check your passport and visa before you go through security.

 

However - Its not clear how this check would occur - The instructions by the airline are to go directly to security after online check-in.

 

It's probably a good assumption that BA is trying to pass accountability to the passenger without a robust process in place for any actual checking to occur - Who knows, but possibly used as an argument to obtain payment for the return flight.

Edited October 13, 2022 by spambot
typo

[DrJack54]

1 hour ago, spambot said:

Several of our airlines offer you the option to use their self service check-in kiosks at the airport

Why quote slabs from particular airlines. As per the above quote. 

 

MANY airlines do not offer online check in for international routes.

 

In November I fly Oz and back with Jetstar.

No online check in is possible.

 

Just one example...AirAsia.

For flights Vietnam to Thailand there is no online check in.

Check in is counter only and opens 2 hours prior to flight.

BTW you will be asked for onward flight without visa or reentry permit for that route. 

 

Stick with same airline...even when kiosk check is available eg Bangkok to Vietnam and you obtain boarding pass..

That is checked again for visa at boarding gate.

 

I can go on. 

Your posts above are naive and then you go back through thread and laugh emoji on my threads. 

Fine. 

 

Edited October 13, 2022 by DrJack54

[rankric]

Looks like the OP is looking for a problem that is not there. Got asked at heathrow for an onward flight in 2018. Brought one for £19 presented email booking. Problem solved. Not stepped outside thailand since. Things do change i guess.

[bear9]

39 minutes ago, DrJack54 said:

 

Your posts above are naive and then you go back through thread and laugh emoji on my threads. 

Fine. 

 

You done the same thing in this previous thread to all my posts using the laughing emoji. You can't blame someone for using the laughing the emoji when you repeatedly done it yourself to my posts in the other thread.

 

[DrJack54]

1 hour ago, bear9 said:

You done the same thing in this previous thread to all my posts using the laughing emoji

Completely different.

Your posts where incorrect.

Hence the emoji and subsequent ignore.

BTW read that thread. Several tried to point out your errors. 

 

Edited October 13, 2022 by DrJack54

[FarAngMoh]

22 hours ago, aussiexpat said:

Having worked in aviation management for over 20 years (35 years total), wondering how many airlines really care about the cost of one possible passenger not being accepted by Thai immigration. I mean they make billions of $ per year, but the main reason given on here for requiring an onward flight is the airline has to fly you out of Thailand at their cost, omg, the impact to the airline must be profit destroying to give up an otherwise empty seat lol

 

If ever questioned by airline, ask to see supervisor/manager, show proof of funds to fly out, they'll always crumble to keep your flight and future business

 

In my experience, the supervisor/manager is an even BIGGER stickler. The idea that they will crumble out of fear of losing your future business… good luck with that. They could care less. Most of the time they follow their policies, to a fault.

 

I’ve flown hundreds of flights all over the world. Sure, you might get lucky once in a while, but once the airline staff think they are right, they won’t easily back off… even when they are wrong! 

[bear9]

15 minutes ago, DrJack54 said:

Completely different.

Your posts where incorrect.

Hence the emoji and subsequent ignore.

BTW read that thread. Several tried to point out your errors. 

 

Not completely different at all. You ignored me because you are not able to admit when you are wrong on occasion.

 

Its your posts on the subject that are incorrect and that's a fact not an opinion. You need an onward flight ticket it really isn't that difficult. Seems like you have a good knowledge about visas from your posts im not disputing your knowledge on visas. However on this occasion you are wrong regarding the simple requirement to show an onward ticket to the airline and to immigration if requested.

 

When you post incorrect information like this its giving people problems when they go to check in at the airport.