Taking the plunge

[nigelforbes]

7 minutes ago, ozfarang said:

Can yo back up the statement with facts. Not hearsay, not bar stool talk.

Let me see, can I providing supporting evidence that people who scam Immigration department into believing they have 800k in the bank, when they don't, will be removed.

 

Nope, and anyone with even an iota of common sense doesn't need any either. 

[nigelforbes]

6 minutes ago, Olmate said:

Sounds.like you can.t really afford it either. Best.to harden up and join the Club.

I'm on a marriage extension and have been for over 20 years. My 400k stays in the bank year round and never gets touched.

[ozfarang]

2 minutes ago, nigelforbes said:

Let me see, can I providing supporting evidence that people who scam Immigration department into believing they have 800k in the bank, when they don't, will be removed.

 

Nope, and anyone with even an iota of common sense doesn't need any either. 

You have got no idea how the agent 'gravy train' operates. It's been going on a lot longer than you have been in the Kingdom

[nigelforbes]

2 minutes ago, BritTim said:

If the agent handles things correctly, no Thai laws are actually broken. All that happens is that a senior immigration official exercises abuse of discretion, and one of his close relatives becomes richer (purely a coincidence of course). You have plausible deniability about how the agent wangled you the extension without all the customary requirements being met.

And you think that will pass the sniff test of a non-corrupt Immigration officer who's after the bigger fish....I really don't think so. It's foolish to think that Immigration doesn't know this happens and it's even more foolish to think that everyone condones it. It's a matter of time, that's all. 

[Padthaigoong]

1 minute ago, nigelforbes said:

And you think that will pass the sniff test of a non-corrupt Immigration officer who's after the bigger fish....I really don't think so. It's foolish to think that Immigration doesn't know this happens and it's even more foolish to think that everyone condones it. It's a matter of time, that's all. 

At my age they had better get a move on.

[nigelforbes]

1 minute ago, ozfarang said:

You have got no idea how the agent 'gravy train' operates. It's been going on a lot longer than you have been in the Kingdom

I've been dealing with Immi. since 1992, yes I do know how the gravy train works in a few areas and by a few Immi. officers. I use an agent in the North for all my Immi needs but the agent is legit, in the past 20 years they have never allowed anything even remotely dodgy because it derials that very train that you're talking about.

[hotandsticky]

42 minutes ago, nigelforbes said:

 

Each to their own, if you're prepared to take the risk, knowing what the penalties are, have it. TBH I'm not sure that breaking Immigration law on the very first day is the best way to start your new life in Thailand but hey, I'm just old fashioned in that respect. And if the fact that said dodgy agent has loads and loads of farang customers gives you comfort and makes you think everything is OK, more fool you.

 

These agents are not 'dodgy'. Immigration officers exploit a hole in the rules which allows them to use their authority to grant retirement extensions to anyone.

 

There are far too many (Immigration) fingers in this particular pie for this practice to ever come under threat. The ONLY risk is using a disreputable agent and this case the OP has no intention of doing that. I fully appreciate his reasons and, in his case, the convenience factor is worth paying the costs involved.

[BritTim]

1 minute ago, nigelforbes said:

And you think that will pass the sniff test of a non-corrupt Immigration officer who's after the bigger fish....I really don't think so. It's foolish to think that Immigration doesn't know this happens and it's even more foolish to think that everyone condones it. It's a matter of time, that's all. 

There is a very small risk. I do not deny that. As I posted before, it is arguable that the agent and a senior immigration official engaged in corrupt practices (though, the way the law is worded, this cannot be prosecuted if done correctly). However, you have broken no laws. The risk is that the authorities come after you without a legal justification, which is possible but very unlikely.

[ozfarang]

2 minutes ago, nigelforbes said:

And you think that will pass the sniff test of a non-corrupt Immigration officer who's after the bigger fish....I really don't think so. It's foolish to think that Immigration doesn't know this happens and it's even more foolish to think that everyone condones it. It's a matter of time, that's all. 

I'm sure they know what's going on and are mostly all part of the 'business model' and all reap their due rewards.

You have to remember all the immigration officers are members of the RTP and as you have been in Thailand a considerable amount of time you would surely know how 'bent' the cops are.

[nigelforbes]

Just now, BritTim said:

There is a very small risk. I do not deny that. As I posted before, it is arguable that the agent and a senior immigration official engaged in corrupt practices (though, the way the law is worded, this cannot be prosecuted if done correctly). However, you have broken no laws. The risk is that the authorities come after you without a legal justification, which is possible but very unlikely.

You have no way of quantifying that risk so you have no basis for saying the risk is small and the possibility very unlikely. Look, the simple fact is it's against the law. Posters can make all the excuses they want and try to project blame onto others but it doesn't change the underlying fact and everyone knows that so lets not have any  more waffle.

[nigelforbes]

1 minute ago, ozfarang said:

I'm sure they know what's going on and are mostly all part of the 'business model' and all reap their due rewards.

You have to remember all the immigration officers are members of the RTP and as you have been in Thailand a considerable amount of time you would surely know how 'bent' the cops are.

I know how bent some cops are but I also know others who are straight as a die..

[BritTim]

2 minutes ago, nigelforbes said:

Look, the simple fact is it's against the law.

Cite the applicable law (make sure it is a Thai one).

[gearbox]

31 minutes ago, Celsius said:

 

No he does not. 

 

Or he is one of those rare Thai Visa posters who makes 30% annual interest on their savings account.

They are not rare, according to a poster in this thread the agents need trucks to move passports.

 

Looks like it is kind of great investment scheme everyone knows about, except me????

[nigelforbes]

7 minutes ago, BritTim said:

Cite the applicable law (make sure it is a Thai one).

Give me a break, where do you think you are, in the UK Courts of Justice for gods sake!

[Padthaigoong]

1 minute ago, nigelforbes said:

Give me a break, where do you think you are, in the UK Courts of Justice for gods sake!

Isn't that where you think you are ?

[nigelforbes]

Just now, Padthaigoong said:

Isn't that where you think you are ?

Mate, you just don't get it. The Thai embassies and Thai Immigration all tell us that there are requirements for each type of visa, one of them is to have 800k in the bank. Do you think that was just a whim or an after thought on the part of the people who made those rules and do you think that Immigration laws were passed to make them legal.....I'll save you the bother of having to deliberate, Immigration laws would have been passed, if you doubt that, there's zero hope for you in this life or probably the next.

 

Given that laws were passed, do you then think it's OK if some farang rocks up and says, Oh dear, I don't have that much money, I'll just join this scam, I'm sure I can't possibly be blamed because really it's the agent and the bent Immi. officer really. Are you for real or what!

[nigelforbes]

It's been fun, I'm off to do some gardening. Byee.

[Padthaigoong]

Just now, nigelforbes said:

It's been fun, I'm off to do some gardening. Byee.

Have a good day.

 

Thanks for your point of view

[Olmate]

13 minutes ago, Padthaigoong said:

Have a good day.

 

Thanks for your point of view

 Nigel is no.doubt sprucing up the place in rediness for his yearly extension(grovel)homevisit!! Ughh... 

[brewsterbudgen]

It seems the endemic corruption and ability to break the laws that we don't like, are just one of the many advantages of living in Thailand!

[BritTim]

19 minutes ago, nigelforbes said:

Mate, you just don't get it. The Thai embassies and Thai Immigration all tell us that there are requirements for each type of visa, one of them is to have 800k in the bank. Do you think that was just a whim or an after thought on the part of the people who made those rules and do you think that Immigration laws were passed to make them legal..

You have a very superficial grasp of the rules. Yes, there are customary financial requirements. However, senior immigration officials in the key positions have legal discretion to waive the requirements (especially those around funds seasoning). There are legitimate reasons for them to have this power. What we are seeing with the agent system is an abuse of discretion which falls short of breaking any laws. Also, as I tried to explain earlier, the corruption laws in Thailand have deliberate loopholes.

 

Even if the agent and/or the official were breaking any laws, you would not be. I conceded in an earlier post that it is conceivable that action could be taken against you without legal justification. You can consider that a huge risk. I do not.

[nigelforbes]

3 minutes ago, Olmate said:

 Nigel is no.doubt sprucing up the place in rediness for his yearly extension(grovel)homevisit!! Ughh... 

Immi hasn't made a home visit (to us) in at least eleven years. That may be a function of the agent that I use which is connected to a senior Immi officer and is known to be strictly legit.

[ozfarang]

2 minutes ago, nigelforbes said:

Immi hasn't made a home visit (to us) in at least eleven years. That may be a function of the agent that I use which is connected to a senior Immi officer and is known to be strictly legit.

'connected', that wouldn't be a connection that requires something in return from your agent.

 

Nothing in the Kingdom is strictly legit when the RTP are involved

[nigelforbes]

3 minutes ago, BritTim said:

You have a very superficial grasp of the rules. Yes, there are customary financial requirements. However, senior immigration officials in the key positions have legal discretion to waive the requirements (especially those around funds seasoning). There are legitimate reasons for them to have this power. What we are seeing with the agent system is an abuse of discretion which falls short of breaking any laws. Also, as I tried to explain earlier, the corruption laws in Thailand have deliberate loopholes.

 

Even if the agent and/or the official were breaking any laws, you would not be. I conceded in an earlier post that it is conceivable that action could be taken against you without legal justification. You can consider that a huge risk. I do not.

Don't tell me that you're going to argue the case on the finer points of Thai law, none of which will matter one jot when Immi and the RTP knock on your door and tell you that they know you've been scamming them on the 800k via a dodgy agent. I'd love to be a fly on the wall during that exchange, ah yes they will say, you are of course correct and really the problem lays with the officers in the Immi. dept........tell me that's not what you think they will say, show me there's still hope for mankind!

[nigelforbes]

3 minutes ago, ozfarang said:

'connected', that wouldn't be a connection that requires something in return from your agent.

 

Nothing in the Kingdom is strictly legit when the RTP are involved

Sure, I'm guessing the agent pays a fee to the officer for the expedited service, a service that I pay for out of my fee to the agent. I'm OK if the agent wants to share the fee that I pay, all I care about is the service, all of which needs to be 100% above board.

[BritTim]

1 minute ago, nigelforbes said:

Don't tell me that you're going to argue the case on the finer points of Thai law, none of which will matter one jot when Immi and the RTP knock on your door and tell you that they know you've been scamming them on the 800k via a dodgy agent. I'd love to be a fly on the wall during that exchange, ah yes they will say, you are of course correct and really the problem lays with the officers in the Immi. dept........tell me that's not what you think they will say, show me there's still hope for mankind!

They are going to have to arrest a well connected senior immigration official at the same time. Very occasionally, there are high level conflicts among the Thai elite. When that happens, there can be collateral damage involving those who are only indirectly involved. Even should this occur, they would only go after the senior official caught up in the power struggle and the agent. You are at additional level removed from all this, and would be incredibly unlucky to be targeted. Not impossible, but on a par with your risk in crossing the road.

[Padthaigoong]

5 minutes ago, nigelforbes said:

Don't tell me that you're going to argue the case on the finer points of Thai law, none of which will matter one jot when Immi and the RTP knock on your door and tell you that they know you've been scamming them on the 800k via a dodgy agent. I'd love to be a fly on the wall during that exchange, ah yes they will say, you are of course correct and really the problem lays with the officers in the Immi. dept........tell me that's not what you think they will say, show me there's still hope for mankind!

Well you've certainly put me off the whole idea so I guess it's back to the drawing board.

[nigelforbes]

2 minutes ago, BritTim said:

They are going to have to arrest a well connected senior immigration official at the same time. Very occasionally, there are high level conflicts among the Thai elite. When that happens, there can be collateral damage involving those who are only indirectly involved. Even should this occur, they would only go after the senior official caught up in the power struggle and the agent. You are at additional level removed from all this, and would be incredibly unlucky to be targeted. Not impossible, but on a par with your risk in crossing the road.

The risk in crossing the road in Thailand is pretty damned high!

[BritTim]

Just now, nigelforbes said:

The risk in crossing the road in Thailand is pretty damned high!

Indeed, and yet I personallly take this risk on a regular basis.  I am not willing to call an Uber every time I want to cross the road to avoid the possibility of being flattened by a driving lunatic.

[Sparktrader]

15 minutes ago, nigelforbes said:

The risk in crossing the road in Thailand is pretty damned high!

Not if you look both ways.