Bank Codes and Immigration

[StevieAus]

I have held a Retirement Extension for over ten years using the income method

Each month I transfer far in excess of the amount required, from a private pension and receive a smaller amount from a government pension to an account in my own name at the Bangkok Bank.

Both entries show a code of BTN in the bank book.

The helpful Chiang Mai Immigration are claiming that the above code should be FTT and does not reflect that the transfer is from overseas.

I suspect that this is a ruse to extract a service fee.

Has anyone else experienced this problem?

[DrJack54]

Should be FTT  code.

How are you transferring the money

[essex boys]

My last two months transfers are just showing as ‘ from another account’ not FTT as they were showing, I’ve transferred money successfully for the last 9 months showing in my account as FTT but September and October it doesn’t 

 

[DrJack54]

10 minutes ago, essex boys said:

’ve transferred money successfully for the last 9 months showing in my account as FTT but September and October it doesn’t 

You need talk with your bank.

To confirm bank to bank transfer after international transfer.

Do you use WISE? 

[norbra]

30 minutes ago, essex boys said:

My last two months transfers are just showing as ‘ from another account’ not FTT as they were showing, I’ve transferred money successfully for the last 9 months showing in my account as FTT but September and October it doesn’t 

 

If you are using Wise then Check your Wise receipt it will indicate which Wise partner made the deposit, probably Kbank or Deemoney. If Kbank take bankbook and Wise receipts to one of their trade/international branches and request credit advice for these transactions.

If Deemoney 028215555 and request receipts for those transfers these are all accepted by immigration 

Edited October 19, 2022 by norbra

[keithkarmann]

Had the same problem about 3 years ago. Transfers with Wise to Bangkok bank not recognised as International transfers as they have to go through another Thai bank first. So had to open a Kasikorn bank account to transfer money that was then recognised as an international transfer by the Thai immigration. Had no problem since.

[Tracyb]

 Before I bit the bullet and started keeping 800k in a dedicated account, Chiang Mai Imm always required me to show FTT on my monthly deposits.

[Andycoops]

On my last marriage extension I had 9 FTT codes and 3 local bank XFR codes on my 1 year bank statement.

I use Wise and always select the, long term stay in Thailand, option.

 

Tried to contact them about it but the useless automated system on messenger can't understand a simple question.

 

However, no mention was made of this at immigration and my application was accepted, currently on 30 consideration so it remains to be seen if Korat pickup on it.

[Pib]

The BTN stands for the BAHTNET system which is a Bank of Thailand funds transfer system primarily used for domestic transfers but also interfaces with the SWIFT system for international transfers.   Basically, its a domestic transfer system but with international transfer interface.

 

Not uncommon for "some" international/SWIFT transfers to use that routing which uses the BAHTNET system for the "final leg" of the transfer.  The SWIFT routing used will be determined by the "sending" financial entity like a bank, pension paying agency, money transfer service.  The receiving bank does not control have any say in SWIFT routing the sending entity uses.   Although that SWIFT transfer originated in a foreign country as it was relayed through the SWIFT system from bank-to-bank the final leg was via BAHTNET which as mentioned does interfaces with the SWIFT system.

 

Example: U.S. pensioners who use "International Direct Deposit (IDD)" for deposit of their Social Security pension receive BTN coding because that IDD payment occurs over the SWIFT system versus the ACH system and the last leg of that SWIFT transfer occurs over the BAHTNET system.    I remember seeing several posts of pensioner in other countries like Australia who receive govt pensions also receiving BTN coding simply because the pension paying agency in Australia uses SWIFT routing that uses BAHTNET for the final leg of the payment/transfer.

 

I have a family member who receives U.S. social security pension via IDD to her Bangkok Bank acct....that monthly payment receives BTN coding.  When going to Bangkok Bank to get a Credit Advice that Credit Advice shows the SWIFT codes used for routing....the transfer starts off from the U.S. Treasury, then goes to CitiBank Europe, then to CitiBank Thailand Headquarters, then to Bank of Thailand, and finally from Bank of Thailand to Bangkok Bank.  The Bangkok Bank Credit Advice shows the last leg of the transfer was from Bank of Thailand BAHTNET SWIFT code BOTHTHBT.

 

But most importantly the Credit Advice shows where the transfer originated like from the U.S. and was an international transfer although it received BTN (BAHTNET) coding.  That Credit Advice proves it was an international transfer.  Credit Advices at Thai banks are normally "free" if getting them within 3 months of a transfer....after 3 months there may be a small charge of around Bt100 per credit advice.   So, if a person can get into the habit of asking their Thai bank for a Credit Advice for a transfer a person will have proof it was an international transfer although statement/passbook coding does not reflect international coding like FTT that Bangkok Bank uses.  

 

Once again, it's the Sending entity that determines the SWIFT routing; not the receiver.   If that sending entity routing happens to include the BAHTNET SWIFT code as the last leg then you will receive BAHTNET coding.

 

 

SWIFT Code for BOT BAHTNET System

 

 

 

[Pib]

6 minutes ago, Andycoops said:

On my last marriage extension I had 9 FTT codes and 3 local bank XFR codes on my 1 year bank statement.

I use Wise and always select the, long term stay in Thailand, option.

 

Tried to contact them about it but the useless automated system on messenger can't understand a simple question.

 

However, no mention was made of this at immigration and my application was accepted, currently on 30 consideration so it remains to be seen if Korat pickup on it.

I expect for the 9 transfers receiving FTT coding that Wise used their partner bank of Bangkok Bank to finalize the transfer....Bangkok Bank totally handled the final leg of the Wise peer-to-peer transfer.

 

However, for the 3 transfers with XFR coding that Wise used their one of their other Thai partner banks of K-bank or DeeMoney to finalize the transfer via local transfer to your Bangkok Bank acct.   So, since Bangkok Bank received the transfer from another Thai bank they see it as just another local transfer and receiving that kind of local transfer coding vs FTT international transfer coding.  If you take a look at your Wise PDF Receipt at the bottom it should show which partner bank Wise used for the final leg of the transfer....I expect the partner bank shown is "not" Bangkok Bank but is K-bank or DeeMoney.

 

[mikesil]

Using Transferwise for several years now, I have found them most uncooperative in resolving this issue.  Transfers from the US sometimes arrive directly at Bangkok Bank and are shown in my local account as "International Transfer".  Other times they pass through a "partner bank", usually Kasikorn, and are shown as "Transfer from another bank".  The only control I have over this is to make the transfer for over 50,000 baht.  This seems to force the transfer to be direct.  How long this will last, I have no idea.

 

Transferwise customer service is of no help, and frankly appears to be unable to understand what I am talking about, despite several communications.

[cauldlad]

I queried this with Wise a couple of years ago about international transfers.

 

Even if you use the long term stay option, Wise CANNOT guarantee that the payment will always show as an International transfer!!

 

They sometimes use their local banks connection, hence it sometimes shows as a local transfer.

 

It is purely pot luck imo. 

[scubascuba3]

27 minutes ago, mikesil said:

Using Transferwise for several years now, I have found them most uncooperative in resolving this issue.  Transfers from the US sometimes arrive directly at Bangkok Bank and are shown in my local account as "International Transfer".  Other times they pass through a "partner bank", usually Kasikorn, and are shown as "Transfer from another bank".  The only control I have over this is to make the transfer for over 50,000 baht.  This seems to force the transfer to be direct.  How long this will last, I have no idea.

 

Transferwise customer service is of no help, and frankly appears to be unable to understand what I am talking about, despite several communications.

You didn't say what reason for transfer you select? It's possible something quirky is going on with US transfers

Edited October 20, 2022 by scubascuba3

[scubascuba3]

24 minutes ago, cauldlad said:

I queried this with Wise a couple of years ago about international transfers.

 

Even if you use the long term stay option, Wise CANNOT guarantee that the payment will always show as an International transfer!!

 

They sometimes use their local banks connection, hence it sometimes shows as a local transfer.

 

It is purely pot luck imo. 

"a couple years ago" is out of date, the Wise process has been updated since then and works fine for most otherwise you'd hear more noise

 

[norbra]

2 hours ago, keithkarmann said:

Had the same problem about 3 years ago. Transfers with Wise to Bangkok bank not recognised as International transfers as they have to go through another Thai bank first. So had to open a Kasikorn bank account to transfer money that was then recognised as an international transfer by the Thai immigration. Had no problem since.

Did immigration accept the GPS (Global Payments System)code in your Kbank bankbook ? Or did you need to provide other documents?

Edited October 20, 2022 by norbra

[cauldlad]

Not everyone using Wise requires it to show as an international transfer.

 

I would suggest most people using Wise want the best rate, so are not bothered whether it shows as an international transfer or not. 

 

The only people who want it to show as an international transfer as those people using the income method for their extension.

[treetops]

33 minutes ago, cauldlad said:

It is purely pot luck imo.

Since the option to select long stay in Thailand was introduced it appears to have worked almost flawlessly in obtaining the International Transfer annotation on deposits, until a few queries recently.  Prior to that acounts had to be manually tagged and that too appeared to work well.

 

They will always put a proviso to give themselves a get out in case it fails, but the system in general seems pretty robust and it's definitely not down to pot luck or we would hear regular tales of woe.

 

Users should have a back up plan in case the Wise transfer throws up something unusual.

[connda]

3 hours ago, keithkarmann said:

Had the same problem about 3 years ago. Transfers with Wise to Bangkok bank not recognised as International transfers as they have to go through another Thai bank first. So had to open a Kasikorn bank account to transfer money that was then recognised as an international transfer by the Thai immigration. Had no problem since.

That's probably the best solution as it seems that Kasikorn in the intermediary bank for international transfers - for whatever reason.

[cauldlad]

The long stay option was always there as far as I know.

 

The point I was trying to make is it not 100% and Wise have confirmed that to me in writing.

 

I agree everyone should have a back up plan in case you do not get the international transfer you may want.

[treetops]

6 minutes ago, connda said:

That's probably the best solution as it seems that Kasikorn in the intermediary bank for international transfers - for whatever reason.

The tagging of accounts for Bangkok Bank, which was superceded by the long stay reason for transfer to ensure the international code, works well in most cases and routes through BBL with no intermediary.

[theoldgit]

1 hour ago, cauldlad said:

The long stay option was always there as far as I know.

 

Not always no, I think it was introduced as a workaround when some Embassy's stopped issuing income letters, and the then TransferWise negotiated a system with some banks, so as to satisfy Immigration Officers.

[wwest5829]

3 hours ago, mikesil said:

Using Transferwise for several years now, I have found them most uncooperative in resolving this issue.  Transfers from the US sometimes arrive directly at Bangkok Bank and are shown in my local account as "International Transfer".  Other times they pass through a "partner bank", usually Kasikorn, and are shown as "Transfer from another bank".  The only control I have over this is to make the transfer for over 50,000 baht.  This seems to force the transfer to be direct.  How long this will last, I have no idea.

 

Transferwise customer service is of no help, and frankly appears to be unable to understand what I am talking about, despite several communications.

Sorry to hear. I have my US Social Security deposited into my American bank. From there I transfer $2200.00 through Wise pulled from my bank and transferred into my Bangkok Bank Account like clockwork every month to meet the required monthly deposit transferred from abroad. Ordering the transfer via Wise, you are asked for the reason of the transfer. Scroll down through the reasons and you will see “for long term stay”. Check that box and it comes directly as an FTT transfer. Do not check the box and it can come through an intermediary bank not meeting the FTT notation.

[wwest5829]

50 minutes ago, theoldgit said:

 

Not always no, I think it was introduced as a workaround when some Embassy's stopped issuing income letters, and the then TransferWise negotiated a system with some banks, so as to satisfy Immigration Officers.

I use it on Wise every month. Retirement monthly income method. Always check that box and FTT transfer noted by Bangkok Bank.

[xtrnuno41]

7 hours ago, Pib said:

The BTN stands for the BAHTNET system which is a Bank of Thailand funds transfer system primarily used for domestic transfers but also interfaces with the SWIFT system for international transfers.   Basically, its a domestic transfer system but with international transfer interface.

Very nice PiB to share this kind of information,respect for telling.

[StevieAus]

9 hours ago, keithkarmann said:

Had the same problem about 3 years ago. Transfers with Wise to Bangkok bank not recognised as International transfers as they have to go through another Thai bank first. So had to open a Kasikorn bank account to transfer money that was then recognised as an international transfer by the Thai immigration. Had no problem since.

Are you still using Wise?

I have used OFX an Australian company for over 10 years and have been happy with the service, rates etc.

It seems they transfer the money ‘ elsewhere’ in Thailand before it comes to my Bangkok Bank account hence it showing BTN and not FTT.

Wondering if I open a Kasikorn  account it will fix the problem.

Failing that I suppose I have to just deposit the 800,000baht.

I don’t want this drama with  Immigration.

[StevieAus]

3 hours ago, wwest5829 said:

Sorry to hear. I have my US Social Security deposited into my American bank. From there I transfer $2200.00 through Wise pulled from my bank and transferred into my Bangkok Bank Account like clockwork every month to meet the required monthly deposit transferred from abroad. Ordering the transfer via Wise, you are asked for the reason of the transfer. Scroll down through the reasons and you will see “for long term stay”. Check that box and it comes directly as an FTT transfer. Do not check the box and it can come through an intermediary bank not meeting the FTT notation.

As I mentioned below I do exactly the same as you from Australia but using different company OFX which doesn’t put it directly into my Bangkok Bank account but through an Intermediary.

Do you know if Transferwise will send money from Australia?

[norbra]

39 minutes ago, StevieAus said:

As I mentioned below I do exactly the same as you from Australia but using different company OFX which doesn’t put it directly into my Bangkok Bank account but through an Intermediary.

Do you know if Transferwise will send money from Australia?

Wise will send money to Thailand from Australia.

If you use Kasikorn bank your transfers will go directly to your account,no intermediary involved.Kbank can email to you a credit advice/receipt for each transaction free of charge,these are accepted by Thai immigration as proof of international deposit.

No need to worry about passbook entries ..

Your Kbank and Wise accounts must be in same name as your passport to avoid any transaction identification issues.

Edited October 20, 2022 by norbra

[wwest5829]

49 minutes ago, StevieAus said:

As I mentioned below I do exactly the same as you from Australia but using different company OFX which doesn’t put it directly into my Bangkok Bank account but through an Intermediary.

Do you know if Transferwise will send money from Australia?

This I do not know. There are a number of Aussies who are members of the Chiang Mai Expats Club. Perhaps your best answer would come from them by asking on the club’s website. Wish you well.

[Pib]

1 hour ago, StevieAus said:

As I mentioned below I do exactly the same as you from Australia but using different company OFX which doesn’t put it directly into my Bangkok Bank account but through an Intermediary.

Do you know if Transferwise will send money from Australia?

Yeap....OFX uses the SWIFT system to accomplish transfer vs using peer-to-peer like Wise uses.  And for an OFX transfer to Thailand the final leg is via BAHTNET....I know that for sure as I also have an OFX acct....use it once or twice a year to transfer funds from the U.S. and all transfers have been coded BTN when posting to the Thai bank.

 

This is just another example of where the "sending" entity (like OFX) chooses the SWIFT routing...that is, what intermediary banks the money bounces through on the way to the receiving bank.  I expect using BAHTNET as the final leg saves the sending entity a few cents in transfer costs....it's all about profit.

 

Sure...Wise will send money/AUD from Oz to Thailand.   Easiest way to find out if Wise can accomplish a certain currency transfer like AUD-to-THB is to just look at their website and select what currency you want to Send and what currency you want the recipient to receive.....if you can enter the desired currencies from the pulldown menus then Wise can use those currencies.  Like below AUD to THB...it's a can-do.  Many Oz folks use Wise to transfer funds to Thailand.

 

https://wise.com/

 

 

 

Edited October 20, 2022 by Pib

[DrJack54]

1 hour ago, StevieAus said:

Do you know if Transferwise will send money from Australia?

Yes.

Being Oz ....I also previously used OFX.... Possibly because they have office in Sydney.

Also early doors I needed some help/advice and OFX were great.

 

After few years later looked into comparison between OFX vs WISE.

 

I currently use WISE for any transfers. 

 

Cannot believe that early days prior to all of this I carried (largish) cash into Thailand often and exchanged at SuperRich green.

Foolish. 

 

 

Edited October 20, 2022 by DrJack54