Liz Truss: What the world is saying about UK turmoil

[Chomper Higgot]

21 minutes ago, nigelforbes said:

It seems odd that Boris would rush back from holiday, get massive support and then pull out. Perhaps he has a trick up his sleeve, a new breakaway party perhaps, that would certainly solve lots of problems and simplify things...dunno.

The ‘Breakaway Party’ is called ‘Reform UK’ it’s breathing down the neck of the Tory rightwing and will further weaken the Tories at the General Election when it comes.

 

 

Edited October 24, 2022 by Chomper Higgot

[nigelforbes]

As Britman said earlier, what people say publicly and how people behave in the polling booth can be very different. I'd love to see that theory tested by Penny Mordaunt getting into the race and it coming down to the vote. PM for PM I say.

[Bluespunk]

3 minutes ago, nigelforbes said:

As Britman said earlier, what people say publicly and how people behave in the polling booth can be very different. I'd love to see that theory tested by Penny Mordaunt getting into the race and it coming down to the vote. PM for PM I say.

Unlikely unless Johnson’s 60+ backers decide to support her in order to torpedo sunak’s chances. 
 

If it goes to the base she could win even though sunak again would be the choice of the parliamentary party. 
 

Still at least mordaunt doesn’t seem as inept and out of touch with reality as truss is. 

[BritManToo]

14 hours ago, puchooay said:

NO . I said those with out an excuse. If you'd like to re read my comment I excluded those with a disability then means they can work.

No excuses, if you take government money you should be forced to be at work 40hrs a week. Even if that work is sitting in a room staring at the walls.

Edited October 24, 2022 by BritManToo

[BritManToo]

14 hours ago, Mac Mickmanus said:

I was sort of making the point that there are some retired people living in Thailand , sitting back in the sun and telling other people back in the U.K to get out in the fields and pick those crops .

   How about those retired guys coming back to the UK and helping out and picking the crops ? 

   Cutting their pensions should help with encouraging them ?

I paid a lot of money for my state pension 20% of my wage for 35 years.

But would happily accept a refund and give up my pension rights.

Lemme see 20% of a wage varying from 30kGBP to 60kGBP (let's average it at 45kGBP) = 400,000 pounds.

[puchooay]

6 hours ago, nigelforbes said:

All silliness and jocularity aside....

 

There is no escaping the realities that it was the prospect of the Brexit vote that forced the hand of many valued EU workers into moving out. There is no other subtle reason hiding behind something else that has not been mentioned, the Brexit vote was the reason. There was no government edict that said they must go, it was merely the uncertainty and human nature that was the catalyst, those things plus the desire of those workers to live and work within the EU framework. I mean, that's what happened, they saw the vote coming, they saw the results and they left. We didn't demand that, we didn't ask for that and we don't like that, but that's how they acted.

 

So when we look at todays shortages of workers in so many areas, the Brexit vote is the reason why that shortage exists. Yes of course, those same workers could come back and apply for visa's and get probably get their old jobs back again but that is too much hassle for too many people, all of whom have grown accustomed to living and working in a borderless EU that included the UK. I think I'd probably behave the same way TBH. All that has happened to those workers is their world has become a little smaller. What has happened to us as a country was entirely foreseeable and predictable and we're now paying the price.

Excellent.

 

So they weren't forced to leave after all. 

[Chomper Higgot]

1 hour ago, BritManToo said:

I paid a lot of money for my state pension 20% of my wage for 35 years.

But would happily accept a refund and give up my pension rights.

Lemme see 20% of a wage varying from 30kGBP to 60kGBP (let's average it at 45kGBP) = 400,000 pounds.

You didn’t pay 20% for your pension.

https://www.gov.uk/national-insurance-rates-letters

[BritManToo]

3 minutes ago, Chomper Higgot said:

You didn’t pay 20% for your pension.

https://www.gov.uk/national-insurance-rates-letters

You think the employers contribution is a free gift to their staff?

Of course it isn't, they just pay you 10% less.

[Mac Mickmanus]

2 hours ago, nigelforbes said:

As Britman said earlier, what people say publicly and how people behave in the polling booth can be very different. I'd love to see that theory tested by Penny Mordaunt getting into the race and it coming down to the vote. PM for PM I say.

Well , in the run up to the last votes , Truss was ahead of Sunak in the polls , so people voted in the way they acted publicly .

   

[Mavideol]

BoJo has a change of mind as he's tired of losing  555

Former UK PM Boris Johnson pulls out of leadership race to replace Liz Truss

https://www.cnbc.com/2022/10/23/former-uk-pm-boris-johnson-reportedly-pulls-out-of-leadership-race.html

[nigelforbes]

1 hour ago, puchooay said:

Excellent.

 

So they weren't forced to leave after all. 

I presume English is not your first language so I'll give you a pass on this point.

[Mac Mickmanus]

40 minutes ago, nigelforbes said:

I presume English is not your first language so I'll give you a pass on this point.

You did acknowledge that no one was forced to leave the U.K and that anyone who left, left of their own accord .

   We are still waiting for you to name the two people who you claim  were forced to leave the U.K and the reasons why they were forced and who forced them

[Chomper Higgot]

1 hour ago, BritManToo said:

You think the employers contribution is a free gift to their staff?

Of course it isn't, they just pay you 10% less.

If wasn’t shown as a deduction on your payslip you didn’t pay it.

 

Stop making stuff up.

[nigelforbes]

19 minutes ago, Mac Mickmanus said:

You did acknowledge that no one was forced to leave the U.K and that anyone who left, left of their own accord .

   We are still waiting for you to name the two people who you claim  were forced to leave the U.K and the reasons why they were forced and who forced them

For grown ups you lot are doing a fine job of hair splitting!

 

He was forced to leave because of circumstance................he was forced to leave because of his wifes views on the subject...................he was forced to leave because he no longer agreed with the approach....take your pick. Please tell me that you're not going to drag out this point and insist that by using the word "forced" in a sentence, you think it means there must be a third party who insisted on a particular action. 

[Mac Mickmanus]

4 minutes ago, nigelforbes said:

For grown ups you lot are doing a fine job of hair splitting!

 

He was forced to leave because of circumstance................he was forced to leave because of his wifes views on the subject...................he was forced to leave because he no longer agreed with the approach....take your pick. Please tell me that you're not going to drag out this point and insist that by using the word "forced" in a sentence, you think it means there must be a third party who insisted on a particular action. 

No need to be condescending .

   You made the claim that "all E.U workers were forced to leave  the U.K ." after the Brexit vote . 

  You implied that the U.K Gov forced all the E.U workers out from the U.K after Brexit .

   The truth and reality is that no one was forced out from the U.K and all the E.U workers in the UK were given visas to stay and remain in the UK .

   No one was forced to leave  the UK

[nigelforbes]

6 minutes ago, Mac Mickmanus said:

No need to be condescending .

   You made the claim that "all E.U workers were forced to leave  the U.K ." after the Brexit vote . 

  You implied that the U.K Gov forced all the E.U workers out from the U.K after Brexit .

   The truth and reality is that no one was forced out from the U.K and all the E.U workers in the UK were given visas to stay and remain in the UK .

   No one was forced to leave  the UK

The way that you interpret the implications of something is hardly my fault! Look, I'm very much afraid that if the debate is going to be held at this level and descend into an interpretation of English language usage, rather than anything of substance, we can't play together any more. I can't be much clearer on these things than I have already set out in my earlier post. 

[Slip]

3 minutes ago, nigelforbes said:

The way that you interpret the implications of something is hardly my fault! Look, I'm very much afraid that if the debate is going to be held at this level and descend into an interpretation of English language usage, rather than anything of substance, we can't play together any more. I can't be much clearer on these things than I have already set out in my earlier post. 

It's a (fundamentally dishonest) rhetorical device.

[Mac Mickmanus]

On 10/23/2022 at 2:40 AM, nigelforbes said:

. All the EU workers were forced to leave 

OK, I must have been wrong , I thought that you meant that All the EU workers were forced to leave when you said that All the EU workers were forced to leave , seems I interpreted it wrong and you meant something else ................................

[3NUMBAS]

they dont realise the red wall wont vote for an ethnic PM in a million years so the y will vote for xmas like the turkeys they are

melt down at next election and reform uk grab the votes they lose as n farage  make a comeback??

[BritManToo]

4 minutes ago, 3NUMBAS said:

melt down at next election and reform uk grab the votes they lose as n farage  make a comeback??

Farage is a German now, don't think many people will vote for him.

[shackleton]

Boris has pulled out which is just as well 

Don't want him back as leader ????

Rishi Sunak is certain to win can't be any worse than Boris or Liz Truss 

Time will tell ????

[nigelforbes]

12 minutes ago, Mac Mickmanus said:

OK . I will ask you a question to clarify .

Maybe I understood what you meant :

*Were E.U workers forced to leave the UK after Brexit ?*

A Yes or No will suffice 

Which part of my previous post (below) is unclear? You want to try and reduce everything down to simple yes and no answers, the world doesn't work that way, the argument is more complex and the issue is more complex. I'd smile but at this stage it would be a forced smile, I'd laugh but it would be a forced laugh!

 

"All silliness and jocularity aside....

 

There is no escaping the realities that it was the prospect of the Brexit vote that forced the hand of many valued EU workers into moving out. There is no other subtle reason hiding behind something else that has not been mentioned, the Brexit vote was the reason. There was no government edict that said they must go, it was merely the uncertainty and human nature that was the catalyst, those things plus the desire of those workers to live and work within the EU framework. I mean, that's what happened, they saw the vote coming, they saw the results and they left. We didn't demand that, we didn't ask for that and we don't like that, but that's how they acted.

 

So when we look at todays shortages of workers in so many areas, the Brexit vote is the reason why that shortage exists. Yes of course, those same workers could come back and apply for visa's and get probably get their old jobs back again but that is too much hassle for too many people, all of whom have grown accustomed to living and working in a borderless EU that included the UK. I think I'd probably behave the same way TBH. All that has happened to those workers is their world has become a little smaller. What has happened to us as a country was entirely foreseeable and predictable and we're now paying the price".

[Mac Mickmanus]

26 minutes ago, nigelforbes said:

There is no escaping the realities that it was the prospect of the Brexit vote that forced the hand of many valued EU workers into moving out.

We are getting close to the truth , but not quite there yet .

No one was forced (the hand) to leave the U.K

Anyone who did leave , left of their own free will and they could have stayed if they wanted to 

[roo860]

1 minute ago, Mac Mickmanus said:

We are getting close to the truth , but not quite there yet .

No one was forced (the hand) to leave the U.K

Anyone who did leave , left of their own free will and they could have stayed if they wanted to 

The Romanian family across the road from me when I lived in England all stayed, still keep in touch with them, they've now all got British citizenship and are proud of it.

[Mac Mickmanus]

28 minutes ago, nigelforbes said:

So when we look at todays shortages of workers in so many areas, the Brexit vote is the reason why that shortage exists.

Not quite , take the aviation industry and the airport workers . 

Many of the people who worked at airports were layed off because of Covid , as there were no flights they lost their jobs .

   When flights resumed, airports had difficulty in getting staff because the airport workers had found other jobs.

   The same can be said about hotels and the service industry , staff got laid off because of the Covid lock downs and they now find it difficult to recruit staff . 

   Eastern Europe is also a lot more prosperous these days and many workers went back to their own Country because of better opportunities there 

[CharlieH]

Numerous bickering trolling posts removed along with replies etc.

 

Usual suspects at work, next will be removal of said suspects.

[nigelforbes]

7 minutes ago, Mac Mickmanus said:

We are getting close to the truth , but not quite there yet .

No one was forced (the hand) to leave the U.K

Anyone who did leave , left of their own free will and they could have stayed if they wanted to 

I've given up on you.....over and OUT

[talahtnut]

The PM contest, its a puppet show for a bunch

of people to make billions on the future of Sterling.

Your votes are futile.

technocracy is the science of social engineering.

The algorithm makes the decisions.

[puchooay]

5 hours ago, nigelforbes said:

I presume English is not your first language so I'll give you a pass on this point.

 

3 hours ago, nigelforbes said:

English language usage

Is it not yours then? 555

Edited October 24, 2022 by puchooay

[RayC]

1 hour ago, Mac Mickmanus said:

Not quite , take the aviation industry and the airport workers . 

Many of the people who worked at airports were layed off because of Covid , as there were no flights they lost their jobs .

   When flights resumed, airports had difficulty in getting staff because the airport workers had found other jobs.

   The same can be said about hotels and the service industry , staff got laid off because of the Covid lock downs and they now find it difficult to recruit staff . 

   Eastern Europe is also a lot more prosperous these days and many workers went back to their own Country because of better opportunities there 

Eastern Europe may be more prosperous but the problems in certain sectors of the UK labour market have been increased by the withdrawal of freedom of movement.