Biden calls U.S. midterm results ‘good day’ for democracy, admits voters ‘frustrated’

[Eric Loh]

3 hours ago, thaibeachlovers said:

Pretty pathetic IMO.

There are election laws in every states that have to be followed and that process delayed the results. Never mind, you will never understand and casting convenient blame is easier. 
 

https://www.npr.org/2022/11/08/1134235552/midterm-election-results-pre-canvassing-ballot-processing

https://www.npr.org/2022/11/11/1136085626/arizona-counting-ballots-vote-tallying-maricopa-county

 

[Eric Loh]

36 minutes ago, Saanim said:

It would be quite boring to get the business finished just over weekend as other - not so developed - countries do. 

After so many time and money invested in, the population needs to be further entertained.

 

Can’t get the business finished promptly due to the fact that election in US is decentralized and each states has their own election law. 

[Scott]

In Arizona, election results have historically been slow.  It's most notable when it's a close race and a winner can't be projected. 

 

I believe it is around 90% of the voters in AZ are mail-in or early voters.  Those on the mail-in and early voter receive a ballot by mail.   If you wish to go in early and vote in person, you can, but most voters fill out the ballot and sign and date the envelope. 

 

This year for various reasons, a lot of early and mail-in voters decided to drop their ballot off on election day, that left a huge number of ballots that required signature verification and that is, as I understand it, a panel of 5 people to determine they are valid.  In past years, most of those ballots would have been mailed or deposited in a drop box much earlier.  

 

As noted by another member, the actual process of counting votes usually goes on well past the winners have been declared.  A winner is usually declared once it is clear that the opponent has no path to victory regardless of the final total. 

 

Arizona is close to twice the geographical size of Florida which is often cited as having a good vote counting system, and it's got some very remote areas. 

[alex8912]

1 hour ago, Scott said:

In Arizona, election results have historically been slow.  It's most notable when it's a close race and a winner can't be projected. 

 

I believe it is around 90% of the voters in AZ are mail-in or early voters.  Those on the mail-in and early voter receive a ballot by mail.   If you wish to go in early and vote in person, you can, but most voters fill out the ballot and sign and date the envelope. 

 

This year for various reasons, a lot of early and mail-in voters decided to drop their ballot off on election day, that left a huge number of ballots that required signature verification and that is, as I understand it, a panel of 5 people to determine they are valid.  In past years, most of those ballots would have been mailed or deposited in a drop box much earlier.  

 

As noted by another member, the actual process of counting votes usually goes on well past the winners have been declared.  A winner is usually declared once it is clear that the opponent has no path to victory regardless of the final total. 

 

Arizona is close to twice the geographical size of Florida which is often cited as having a good vote counting system, and it's got some very remote areas. 

Hi Scott. I think you need to give SOME credit where credit is due.  Florida had the HUGE "dangling chad " embarrassment in I believe 2000. They got their act together and have quite a good system now. Actually an excellent system. Both states have vast open areas. You seemed to skip over the fact that Florida has 21.7 million people and Arizona has 7.2 million!  That should not be left out of your post above. Maybe we can learn from Brasil? A huge amount of voters and results within hours. Anyone can google the typical voting " machine " in Brasil. It is very small and modern. Arizona is an embarrassment now. 

[Scott]

6 minutes ago, alex8912 said:

Hi Scott. I think you need to give SOME credit where credit is due.  Florida had the HUGE "dangling chad " embarrassment in I believe 2000. They got their act together and have quite a good system now. Actually an excellent system. Both states have vast open areas. You seemed to skip over the fact that Florida has 21.7 million people and Arizona has 7.2 million!  That should not be left out of your post above. Maybe we can learn from Brasil? A huge amount of voters and results within hours. Anyone can google the typical voting " machine " in Brasil. It is very small and modern. Arizona is an embarrassment now. 

I don't have a strong opinion one way or the other.  I fail to see why it is important to hurry any process.  It's not like they are starting work tomorrow.  

 

[Scott]

For those who think the slow count is problematic, it might be worth considering this:

 

Kentucky city's mayoral race decided by a coin toss

When the mayoral race for a small Kentucky city ended in a tie, city officials turned to chance to determine the winner.

Mason Taylor will become the next mayor of Butler after winning a coin toss this week.

He and incumbent Greg McElfresh each garnered 55 votes in Tuesday's election. A third candidate -- Joshua McGriffin -- also got 15 votes.

https://abcnews.go.com/Politics/kentucky-citys-mayoral-race-decided-coin-toss/story?id=93122020

 

[alex8912]

6 minutes ago, Scott said:

I don't have a strong opinion one way or the other.  I fail to see why it is important to hurry any process.  It's not like they are starting work tomorrow.  

 

Well then as many have suggested we can no longer call it Election Day but election season. Arizona will have to change and make their system better and more efficient. They have extra eyes on them now.  Today is the fifth day of not knowing important outcomes. In my state that I live in the new governor has already been working with  the exiting governor so I disagree with you that the new leaders have not started working yet. Maura Healy would for sure disagree as well.  

[Bluespunk]

Democrats have taken Nevada and retained control of the senate. 
 

https://www.bbc.com/news/live/world-us-canada-63600154?app=news.world.us_and_canada.live_coverage.63600154.page#orbit-more-drawer

[thaibeachlovers]

12 hours ago, Scott said:

For those who think the slow count is problematic, it might be worth considering this:

 

Kentucky city's mayoral race decided by a coin toss

When the mayoral race for a small Kentucky city ended in a tie, city officials turned to chance to determine the winner.

Mason Taylor will become the next mayor of Butler after winning a coin toss this week.

He and incumbent Greg McElfresh each garnered 55 votes in Tuesday's election. A third candidate -- Joshua McGriffin -- also got 15 votes.

https://abcnews.go.com/Politics/kentucky-citys-mayoral-race-decided-coin-toss/story?id=93122020

 

Should not the third candidate have decided where to put his 15 votes? Deciding by a coin toss IMO is disrespectful to those voters, OR have a run off election between the two front runners, as they do elsewhere.

 

 

[thaibeachlovers]

19 minutes ago, Bluespunk said:

Democrats have taken Nevada and retained control of the senate. 
 

https://www.bbc.com/news/live/world-us-canada-63600154?app=news.world.us_and_canada.live_coverage.63600154.page#orbit-more-drawer

If one reads my posts prior to the election, the senate was always a toss up for the winner, but the real important one was always the house. They have the committees and the money. IMO the senate would have been good for the GOP to prevent Biden putting in SCOTUS members, but IMO it's unlikely any will need to be replaced in the next two years, so while goody for the Dems, in real terms not that big a deal.

If the Dems do take the house, as they may do, that will be a problem for those of us that think Biden's agenda has to be stopped.

[Berkshire]

1 minute ago, thaibeachlovers said:

IMO the senate would have been good for the GOP to prevent Biden putting in SCOTUS members, but IMO it's unlikely any will need to be replaced in the next two years, so while goody for the Dems, in real terms not that big a deal.

You're probably right about the SCOTUS, but keeping the Senate allows the Dems and President Biden to keep putting judges on the federal bench at a record pace. 

[placeholder]

9 minutes ago, thaibeachlovers said:

Should not the third candidate have decided where to put his 15 votes? Deciding by a coin toss IMO is disrespectful to those voters, OR have a run off election between the two front runners, as they do elsewhere.

 

 

Glad to see you endorse ranked choice voting. Most of your fellow travelers don't like it since it tends to exclude extremist candidates. As for this case, do you think that election officials can just improvise election law?

[Bluespunk]

7 minutes ago, thaibeachlovers said:

If one reads my posts prior to the election, the senate was always a toss up for the winner, but the real important one was always the house. They have the committees and the money. IMO the senate would have been good for the GOP to prevent Biden putting in SCOTUS members, but IMO it's unlikely any will need to be replaced in the next two years, so while goody for the Dems, in real terms not that big a deal.

If the Dems do take the house, as they may do, that will be a problem for those of us that think Biden's agenda has to be stopped.

Spin away but doesn't change anything.

 

I don't need to read your posts to know how the race was going.

 

trumpism failed to take the senate.

 

Cue orange rage and red finger pointing.

 

Schumer tearing into trump and maga on CNN right now.

[pomchop]

Nevada just called senate for dems....so regardless of GA runoff Dems maintain senate and house still TBD...

 

now bring on all the whining and big lies about how it was all rigged from the sore losers.....

[Saanim]

18 hours ago, Eric Loh said:

Can’t get the business finished promptly due to the fact that election in US is decentralized and each states has their own election law. 

That's what I had on mind that the other countries - who manage it over weekend - are not so developed.

 

[placeholder]

A double good day for democracy since it's a bad day for the Russians.

[Hanaguma]

2 hours ago, Berkshire said:

You're probably right about the SCOTUS, but keeping the Senate allows the Dems and President Biden to keep putting judges on the federal bench at a record pace. 

True, IF Biden can do anything "at a record pace" other than dashing off for weekends at the beach...  for better or worse, probably the biggest legacy of the Trump presidency is shifting the balance of the Supreme Court from left to right for some decades to come.

[ozimoron]

2 hours ago, thaibeachlovers said:

Should not the third candidate have decided where to put his 15 votes? Deciding by a coin toss IMO is disrespectful to those voters, OR have a run off election between the two front runners, as they do elsewhere.

Not his votes to allocate. That's why all states should have the same rules as Georgia or use preferential voting like some other countries.

[Eric Loh]

2 hours ago, Saanim said:

That's what I had on mind that the other countries - who manage it over weekend - are not so developed.

 

Other developed countries have centralize election law and popular vote. 

[Saanim]

1 hour ago, Eric Loh said:

Other developed countries have centralize election law and popular vote. 

Obviously. Anyway, can somebody enlighten me, what will get changed for the population when ones or the other will be at helm?
-Will the inflation be lower?
-Will the prices get down?
-Will the mortgages be lower?
-Will the taxes be lower?
-Will be less homeless?
-Will be less food stamp dependants?
-Will the neighborhood be more safer?
-Will be less fighting among parties?

And what will get changed for the world?
-Will the energy prices be lower?

-Will the environment problems be better handled? 

-Will the world be more safer?
-Will be less wars around the world?

[heybruce]

5 hours ago, Saanim said:

Obviously. Anyway, can somebody enlighten me, what will get changed for the population when ones or the other will be at helm?
-Will the inflation be lower?
-Will the prices get down?
-Will the mortgages be lower?
-Will the taxes be lower?
-Will be less homeless?
-Will be less food stamp dependants?
-Will the neighborhood be more safer?
-Will be less fighting among parties?

And what will get changed for the world?
-Will the energy prices be lower?

-Will the environment problems be better handled? 

-Will the world be more safer?
-Will be less wars around the world?

 

Ukraine will not be abandoned.

NATO will not be undermined.

Election deniers will not be over-ruling voters.

 

If you expect Washington DC to solve all the world's problems you live in an alternate reality.

[Saanim]

1 hour ago, heybruce said:

Ukraine will not be abandoned.

NATO will not be undermined.

Election deniers will not be over-ruling voters.

Suppose that the population will appreciate it all, forgetting their own sorrows...

[heybruce]

30 minutes ago, Saanim said:

Suppose that the population will appreciate it all, forgetting their own sorrows...

Clearly the population did not think that the Republicans had any fixes for their sorrows.

[thaibeachlovers]

11 hours ago, Saanim said:

Obviously. Anyway, can somebody enlighten me, what will get changed for the population when ones or the other will be at helm?
-Will the inflation be lower?
-Will the prices get down?
-Will the mortgages be lower?
-Will the taxes be lower?
-Will be less homeless?
-Will be less food stamp dependants?
-Will the neighborhood be more safer?
-Will be less fighting among parties?

And what will get changed for the world?
-Will the energy prices be lower?

-Will the environment problems be better handled? 

-Will the world be more safer?
-Will be less wars around the world?

 

Nothing will, IMO, change because the swamp dwellers politicians are only concerned about keeping their place at the trough power, and all the bad stuff only happens to the ordinary people that don't get huge wages from the long suffering population.

Seems people have forgotten the reason Trump was elected in the first place- as a protest against the swamp dwellers political establishment of BOTH sides in Washington.

[thaibeachlovers]

The longer the ( pathetic ) vote counting continues, the more despondent I become, as it seems like the house may yet revert to Democrat control, in what would be the biggest political shock of my lifetime.

The GOP should have had the house on election day, and that they don't will keep the analysts in jobs for a long time to come.

 

Speaking as an outsider, seems to me that the GOP have done so badly for two reasons

1/ young Americans so want to kill the unborn that they will vote against the party that they identify ( mistakenly IMO ) as being anti abortion. That abortion is apparently more important than contraception horrifies me, though I am for abortion as a last resort.

While the SCOTUS did the right thing- returned abortion policy to the states where it belongs- they didn't do the GOP any favours by doing so.

 

2/ The Democrats have been able to make Trump toxic. Cleverly done to use his defects to over ride the reason he became popular in the first place- as a protest against the Washington establishment. As a threat to their place at the taxpayer funded trough power, he had to be, not just removed from contention as 47, but destroyed as a warning to any others that might seek to attack the establishment. They seem to have achieved that objective.

 

IMO Trump is now not just yesterday's man, but yesterdays toast, and will follow the Tea Party into political oblivion. If he remains, he will, IMO, be the Democrats best hope of keeping the POTUS in 24.

 

The GOP have two years to recover from what is a political disaster ( they should have had a red wave that destroyed Biden ), so hopefully they will not squabble over what went wrong, but will unite to win in 24.

[placeholder]

5 hours ago, thaibeachlovers said:

2/ The Democrats have been able to make Trump toxic. Cleverly done to use his defects to over ride the reason he became popular in the first place- as a protest against the Washington establishment. As a threat to their place at the taxpayer funded trough power, he had to be, not just removed from contention as 47, but destroyed as a warning to any others that might seek to attack the establishment. They seem to have achieved that objective.

 

As part of his campaign against the establishment he slashed taxes on the wealthy and appointed Supreme Court Justices who favor corporations over workers.

[ozimoron]

3 minutes ago, placeholder said:

As part of his campaign against the establishment he slashed taxes on the wealthy and appointed Supreme Court Justices who favor corporations over workers.

I think time will show that the supreme court was a major factor in this election. The Dems said it last election but the message didn't sink in. This time it did.

[placeholder]

21 minutes ago, ozimoron said:

I think time will show that the supreme court was a major factor in this election. The Dems said it last election but the message didn't sink in. This time it did.

The thing is, it should have been a major issue long before this. The right wingers on this court have almost always supported corporations over workers. To do this, they've overturned previously settled law. And this has been going on for a couple of decades now. But Democrats have never highlighted this. Yet it's an issue that affects far more Americans than the overturning of Roe.

[pomchop]

On 11/12/2022 at 10:02 AM, JonnyF said:

Over in a day or 2... How long has it been already?

 

Incredible how long it takes to get the results in US elections. Surely it can't be that complicated. The drawn out process just adds fuel to the fire of those who suggest something shady is afoot.

 

Reminds me of boxing when it takes 15 minutes for the judges to hand in their scorecards. It's not necessarily corruption, but the optics are terrible.

a lot of republicans still refuse to accept the 2020 results two years, 60 court cases, multiple investigations and no evidence of any significant fraud later......so what makes anyone think that a quicker count will eliminate the conspiracy crew from the same old nonsense big lie....the adding fuel to fire comes from people who refuse to accept a result that they don't like by gulping kool aide and rejecting the verified vote counts.

[metisdead]

A post with flaming comments toward another member has been removed.  Please keep it civil when posting.