What to do.

[IvorBiggun2]

Our daughter (luk khrueng) aged 15 is a very forward child and has been pushing herself in attending various talent auditions in Bangkok and NE Thailand over the years. She sees herself as a singer/musician. She plays the guitar and obviously sings. 

Anyways yesterday we/she got notification that a company in Bangkok want to sign her up. The company being'GMM'.  https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/GMM_Grammy.

Between now and April they want us to go to Bangkok to sign a contract. Only problem being is that I haven't a clue as to what that will entail. Do we have to hire a lawyer ourselves? Will they school her? House her? Many questions we need answering but know of no one that can help us. Hence why I'm asking on the forum. May be, just may be, some one can help us. Any sensible advice will be appreciated. 

[KannikaP]

Why not ask THEM about the school, house etc.

Does she write her own commercial songs, because that is the only way she will 'get on' in the music business these days

[proton]

24 minutes ago, KannikaP said:

Why not ask THEM about the school, house etc.

Does she write her own commercial songs, because that is the only way she will 'get on' in the music business these days

Nonsense, few Thai singers write their own material but have got on very well without. Signing up with GMM will not entail housing and schooling, certainly get a lawyer to look at the contract. GMM might not be the best option if she wants a lot of artistic freedom in the future. They have a very impressive HQ on Asoke

Edited November 22, 2022 by proton

[CharlieH]

I would suggest you write down all your concerns and talk them through when you meet theml

The complexity and explanations given should indicate what action follows and whether or not a Lawyer would be needed.

The main issue is ensuring a good interpreter and clear understanding of whats being said.

 

[Dan O]

Write down questions and concerns and have the discussion. I would never sign a contract without a lawyer of my own to review it. It's just the initial discussion and nothing should be finalized from that meeting or you stand to lose all future control over her career and artistic production and ownership

[FritsSikkink]

Send them all the questions you have well before the meeting as their answers could generate more questions from your side. Use the visit to get to know more about the people who will get involved with them, get their personal details. Aks them to show you around and if you could talk to people who already performing there. Have a look at the contract, ask questions when you don't understand things. DON'T sign the contract there and then but let a lawyer review it and when issues arise ask them to change that. when you are happy with the contract after that sign it. They might want to rush things and will say that everything will be ok but take your own time.

Edited November 22, 2022 by FritsSikkink

[proton]

15 minutes ago, Dan O said:

Write down questions and concerns and have the discussion. I would never sign a contract without a lawyer of my own to review it. It's just the initial discussion and nothing should be finalized from that meeting or you stand to lose all future control over her career and artistic production and ownership

It's well known some singers who left GMM have not been allowed to sing their own songs after and have had to negotiate to be able to do so. I would only say it's a good idea if the contract is short just to get exposure and experience, and only then if her genre is string or phua cheewit.

[IvorBiggun2]

My/our main concern is that it's taken a few years to get to where we are today and it would destroy my daughter if by being too inquisitive with questions it may go against her and GMM not bother with signing her up.

My wife believes our daughter's education and accommodation will have to be financed by us and may well be out of our financial range. It may mean that my wife will have to move to Bangkok to stay with her while I remain in the NE and look after our other 2 children. Too many questions to ask.

[Lacessit]

Have you asked them to send you a copy of the contract BEFORE you go to Bangkok?

[bobandyson]

I doubt you'll need to relocate Bangkok. Sounds like a performers contract where she'll be called in to a recording studio or tv show for an appearance or whatever. How much work she'll be handed I can't say.

GMM will just basically be an agent.

[Gaccha]

2 hours ago, IvorBiggun2 said:

want to sign her up

You are seeing it as a schooling process such as in the talent production factories of South Korea and Japan. But I don't believe that is what will happen. 

 

I suspect the contract will be like most music contracts. They will award a large sum up front and in return they will take the rights over her future music earnings. 

 

This can sound wonderful on paper. Newspaper headlines often speak of "2 million dollar signing !". But that signing money is to use for the costs of promotion, for the studio costs, for living expenses. And so on. Even 2 million does not go that far when you take into account all the advertising and production costs. 

 

The deals are invariably a bad idea. In the unlikely event that she succeeds and becomes a star she will make very little because they will possess the music rights. Most people sign the deals at a point of weakness when they don't have the means to promote themselves. 

 

The correct way ahead is to produce her own music slowly and steadily on YouTube etc. If she gets traction after 3 or 4 decent albums then her musical future has legs. 

 

I understand it feels dreamlike and you don't want me (a corporate ex-lawyer) bursting your bubble, but please sleep on any signing of a contract. You are almost certainly making a terrible mistake. 

Edited November 22, 2022 by Gaccha

[IvorBiggun2]

Thanks to all that have replied to date. I understand what you all say but at the end of this my wife and daughter are my stumbling block. They have this vision of being famous and if it doesn't work out someone will have to take the blame. I will write down, and ask, all the questions I feel need to ask. And I will ask for a contract copy before we go to Bangkok and have a lawyer give it the once over first.

 

It's all a coincidence as I just purchased a new T-Shirt tuther day.

Edited November 22, 2022 by IvorBiggun2

[FritsSikkink]

1 hour ago, IvorBiggun2 said:

My/our main concern is that it's taken a few years to get to where we are today and it would destroy my daughter if by being too inquisitive with questions it may go against her and GMM not bother with signing her up.

My wife believes our daughter's education and accommodation will have to be financed by us and may well be out of our financial range. It may mean that my wife will have to move to Bangkok to stay with her while I remain in the NE and look after our other 2 children. Too many questions to ask.

Your wife assumes things and worries about assumptions, ask them how your daughters move to BKK would effect schooling and housing. If your daughter has real talent, they will bother to sign her. It seems you both miss the skills to negotiate, look for someone who can help you there.

[proton]

37 minutes ago, IvorBiggun2 said:

Thanks to all that have replied to date. I understand what you all say but at the end of this my wife and daughter are my stumbling block. They have this vision of being famous and if it doesn't work out someone will have to take the blame. I will write down, and ask, all the questions I feel need to ask. And I will ask for a contract copy before we go to Bangkok and have a lawyer give it the once over first.

 

It's all a coincidence as I just purchased a new T-Shirt tuther day.

Good luck, one thing is for sure, GMM have rarely signed dead ducks, they know what they are doing alright. Most income for singers these days comes from concert appearances, even middle range singers get about 40k for an hour performance. Some companies never gave artists a percentage of CD sales, or even told them what the sales were. GMM is fairer than that at least.

[IvorBiggun2]

Update

My wife is not going to ask for a copy of our daughter's contract which is to be signed next month. I've tried to reason with her but she feels that if we ask to see the contract prior to signing it they will see us as trouble makers and pass our daughter over. It's putting me off wanting to attend the signing but.............. Just gonna have to sit back and see.  

[proton]

1 hour ago, IvorBiggun2 said:

Update

My wife is not going to ask for a copy of our daughter's contract which is to be signed next month. I've tried to reason with her but she feels that if we ask to see the contract prior to signing it they will see us as trouble makers and pass our daughter over. It's putting me off wanting to attend the signing but.............. Just gonna have to sit back and see.  

Hopefully she will at least be reading it! She must be good, they only seem to sign up major contest winners these days. 

[Phnom Penh Trader]

The problem that you have is of course that they are professionals at this and you are not,therefore your choices will be very limited most likely to a very poor contract for your daughter or no contract at all?

I would suggest that the timespan of said contract is going to be the most important part here,as the shorter the better meaning a renegotiation will be necessary at some point where you can reevaluate your options regarding promoting her and remuneration etc?

[NancyL]

Perhaps you can convince your daughter that her mother is potentially making a very bad decision for her future.  What sane person would think that asking to read a contract in advance of signing would somehow kill a deal? 

 

You, as your daughter's father have a duty to protect her, unless she's actually a stepdaughter that you've supported over the years and now you're discovering just how much all your support has really mattered when it comes to having input in life-altering decisions for your "daughter".  

[KannikaP]

On 11/22/2022 at 8:24 AM, proton said:

Nonsense, few Thai singers write their own material but have got on very well without. Signing up with GMM will not entail housing and schooling, certainly get a lawyer to look at the contract. GMM might not be the best option if she wants a lot of artistic freedom in the future. They have a very impressive HQ on Asoke

True about Thai singers not writing their own songs. Neither did Elvis or Sir Cliff, or many others. But it heled Mr Sheeran, Ms Adele, etc etc

[IvorBiggun2]

37 minutes ago, NancyL said:

What sane person would think that asking to read a contract in advance of signing would somehow kill a deal?

My wife.

Thais IMO don't think logically and certainly don't plan ahead. They seem to worry about it after it happens.

 

40 minutes ago, NancyL said:

unless she's actually a stepdaughter

She's definitely mine. Conceived using IVF nearly 16 years ago. No question about parentage.

 

44 minutes ago, NancyL said:

Perhaps you can convince your daughter that her mother is potentially making a very bad decision for her future.

My daughter has just turned 15. Her understanding of the legal side of this are clouded.

[BE88]

4 minutes ago, IvorBiggun2 said:

My wife.

Thais IMO don't think logically and certainly don't plan ahead. They seem to worry about it after it happens.

 

She's definitely mine. Conceived using IVF nearly 16 years ago. No question about parentage.

 

My daughter has just turned 15. Her understanding of the legal side of this are clouded.

Your problem is not your daughter but your wife who dreams of success through her, and is only dazzled by what will probably cause a big disappointment, these are professional agents who need to burn many young people right away and they don't care what comes next after.

At 15 your daughter is entitled to a peaceful life and serious studies and if she is truly a good and committed girl, she will be successful later in life, at that age a disappointment of her dream about her could have serious future consequences .

I fully agree with Gaccha's comment.

[IvorBiggun2]

25 minutes ago, KannikaP said:

True about Thai singers not writing their own songs.

What expectations GMM are wanting haven't been discussed yet. We go to see them in Bangkok on 21st December. Hopefully after that things will be a lot more clearer!!!!

[IvorBiggun2]

21 minutes ago, BE88 said:

Your problem is not your daughter but your wife who dreams of success through her, and is only dazzled by what will probably cause a big disappointment, these are professional agents who need to burn many young people right away and they don't care what comes next after.

Agreed in some parts of the above. But in saying that, it's not my wife that is/ has been pushing my daughter. My daughter has been signing herself

up on the internet for auditions since she was 7. My wife has only been the transporter/guide to the events. We've all been on TV at sometime in the past The Voice, Work Point and CH7 to name 3 studios. I personally hate the lime light and could do without it but ......................

Edited November 30, 2022 by IvorBiggun2

[FritsSikkink]

4 hours ago, IvorBiggun2 said:

My wife.

Thais IMO don't think logically and certainly don't plan ahead. They seem to worry about it after it happens.

 

She's definitely mine. Conceived using IVF nearly 16 years ago. No question about parentage.

 

My daughter has just turned 15. Her understanding of the legal side of this are clouded.

Grow a pair and don't take everything your wife wants as a law. Your kid has no legal status to sign anything.

Be a parent and advise your kid with your opinion too.

[orchis]

On 11/22/2022 at 8:27 AM, IvorBiggun2 said:

It may mean that my wife will have to move to Bangkok to stay with her while I remain in the NE and look after our other 2 children.

better find out what they can guarantee you before making these drastic moves.

[Joe Farang]

Your daughter is 15. Any contract you sign for her will become void when she is an adult and can legally make her own decisions.

You will not be signing her future away with a contract now.

[BE88]

11 hours ago, IvorBiggun2 said:

Agreed in some parts of the above. But in saying that, it's not my wife that is/ has been pushing my daughter. My daughter has been signing herself

up on the internet for auditions since she was 7. My wife has only been the transporter/guide to the events. We've all been on TV at sometime in the past The Voice, Work Point and CH7 to name 3 studios. I personally hate the lime light and could do without it but ......................

All young people are influenced by the golden reflections of the mass media it is up to us to protect them when they are so weak as to resist the siren song until their maturity. If your daughter wants to continue on this path, the first thing to do is for her to remain independent, therefore any contracts are to be excluded while there are other more suitable ways to make herself known and at the same time be able to develop her own artistic career without ever losing control. which many artists choose, independence in this very difficult area is the key to success. https://open.spotify.com/ can be one of those to remain independent but to make yourself known to thousands of people without losing your soul and your independence.

 

Since then, the Stockholm-based company has become the world's most popular audio streaming service with 456 million users in 183 markets. With such a large user base, top Spotify artists have seen their biggest hits rack up millions, if not billions of streams. So, in July 2021, Spotify created the Billions Club, a playlist including all the songs to reach the billion mark.

 

 

[Hummin]

On 11/28/2022 at 6:20 PM, IvorBiggun2 said:

Update

My wife is not going to ask for a copy of our daughter's contract which is to be signed next month. I've tried to reason with her but she feels that if we ask to see the contract prior to signing it they will see us as trouble makers and pass our daughter over. It's putting me off wanting to attend the signing but.............. Just gonna have to sit back and see.  

I guess the contract will be presented to her, and there is an offer to read trough, make change changes, and also have time to look through it with a lawyer or an agent. 
 

Have you guys been thinking about getting in contact with an agent since it seems you guys do not know much about the business. 
 

For many thais if you ask them if they want 1000 baht today, or 10 000 in a week instead, Im afraid they would choose 1000 today. They are scared to loose out, and do not trust there is anything in a week time. 

[phetphet]

At the very least, after the meeting you should say something along the lines of:  "Before signing any contract, we would like go away, read through it carefully and think about it, as it is a big decision to make. We will get back to you with any questions or concerns. Thank you. "

[djayz]

Yes, because the executives at these kinds of businesses really do care about their livestock, eh, sorry, artists and their well-being. 

Get a good lawyer AND an interpreter. I wish her all the best - it's a tough business.