Independence referendum: Scottish government loses indyref2 court case

[Scott]

 

The Scottish government cannot hold an independence referendum without the UK government's consent, the Supreme Court has ruled.

First Minister Nicola Sturgeon wants to hold a referendum on 19 October next year.

But the court ruled unanimously that she does not have the power to do so because the issue is reserved to Westminster.

https://www.bbc.com/news/uk-scotland-scotland-politics-63727562

[ozimoron]

Apparently Brexit is not a done deal and we need not just move on.

[JonnyF]

3 hours ago, Scott said:

But the court ruled unanimously that she does not have the power to do so because the issue is reserved to Westminster.

Oh dear oh dear. Nicola won't be happy. ????

 

The correct ruling though. They already voted to stay. No need to re-run it every 5 minutes until she gets the result she wants.

[ozimoron]

1 minute ago, JonnyF said:

Oh dear oh dear. Nicola won't be happy. ????

 

The correct ruling though. They already voted to stay. No need to re-run it every 5 minutes until she gets the result she wants.

The Scots voted to stay? Link please.

[JonnyF]

1 minute ago, ozimoron said:

The Scots voted to stay? Link please.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2014_Scottish_independence_referendum

 

[ozimoron]

2 minutes ago, JonnyF said:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2014_Scottish_independence_referendum

 

Sorry, I was confused and thought this was the Brexit vote. The Brexit vote is why the Scots want independence now. Public opinion changes in 10 years.

[pacovl46]

5 hours ago, JonnyF said:

Oh dear oh dear. Nicola won't be happy. ????

 

The correct ruling though. They already voted to stay. No need to re-run it every 5 minutes until she gets the result she wants.

What??? There has been a major change since the last vote that had a massive impact on the economy and their ability to trade and therefore they should have the right to vote again!!!

[ozimoron]

A survey from YouGov reveals only 32% of Britons believe it was right to leave and 56% think it was wrong.

The gap is the largest yet and marks a big swing in opinion, particularly since June 2021. In contrast, polling before the 2017 general election had suggested that more people believed Brexit was the right decision than not.

 

https://news.sky.com/story/poll-reveals-public-support-for-brexit-at-all-time-low-12749439

[JonnyF]

23 minutes ago, pacovl46 said:

What??? There has been a major change since the last vote that had a massive impact on the economy and their ability to trade and therefore they should have the right to vote again!!!

Nah.

 

Sturgeon is just using that as an attempt to justify re-running the vote. She wants to ruin Scotland for her own personal ambition. She'd rather have total power over an unsuccessful country than limited power over a successful one. I don't think the Scots are silly enough to fall for it.

[puchooay]

6 hours ago, ozimoron said:

The Scots voted to stay? Link please.

The Scots didn't have a vote. They have never been a member of the EU.

 

UK were a member of EU. The UK voted to leave.

 

If that really is a motivation for Scottish independence then they are being misled. 

 

Were Scotland to leave UK They would be out in the wilderness for many years before EU would even consider allowing them in. 

Edited November 24, 2022 by puchooay

[Phoenix Rising]

8 minutes ago, ozimoron said:

A survey from YouGov reveals only 32% of Britons believe it was right to leave and 56% think it was wrong.

The gap is the largest yet and marks a big swing in opinion, particularly since June 2021. In contrast, polling before the 2017 general election had suggested that more people believed Brexit was the right decision than not.

 

https://news.sky.com/story/poll-reveals-public-support-for-brexit-at-all-time-low-12749439

And for the pro-independence Scots it's proof that even the ultimate cloud/s**t show that was Brexit has a silver lining.

[Phoenix Rising]

3 minutes ago, JonnyF said:

Nah.

 

Sturgeon is just using that as an attempt to justify re-running the vote. She wants to ruin Scotland for her own personal ambition. She'd rather have total power over an unsuccessful country than limited power over a successful one. I don't think the Scots are silly enough to fall for it.

Unsuccessful country?? Fast forward 10 years into the future and an independent and prosperous Scotland is sending food parcels to starving Brits who are still waiting for their re-entry application to be approved, the delay caused by France and other countries who want the time over the barrel to be as long as possible due to the finger the UK gave the EU in the referendum.

Som nam naa, as they say.

[vinny41]

52 minutes ago, ozimoron said:

A survey from YouGov reveals only 32% of Britons believe it was right to leave and 56% think it was wrong.

The gap is the largest yet and marks a big swing in opinion, particularly since June 2021. In contrast, polling before the 2017 general election had suggested that more people believed Brexit was the right decision than not.

 

https://news.sky.com/story/poll-reveals-public-support-for-brexit-at-all-time-low-12749439

When you look at the poll data they surveyed a whopping 1708 people and the survey was sponsored by the Times , I wouldn't expect the Times to pay for a survey that stated anything different

[puchooay]

45 minutes ago, Phoenix Rising said:

Unsuccessful country?? Fast forward 10 years into the future and an independent and prosperous Scotland is sending food parcels to starving Brits who are still waiting for their re-entry application to be approved, the delay caused by France and other countries who want the time over the barrel to be as long as possible due to the finger the UK gave the EU in the referendum.

Som nam naa, as they say.

I would love to know where Scotland will get the money to use to become prosperous with so much surplus income they can support other countries.

Edited November 24, 2022 by puchooay

[ozimoron]

26 minutes ago, vinny41 said:

When you look at the poll data they surveyed a whopping 1708 people and the survey was sponsored by the Times , I wouldn't expect the Times to pay for a survey that stated anything different

That's actually quite a lot for any poll and it's by far not the only poll around indicating similar results.

Edited November 24, 2022 by ozimoron

[LennyW]

1 hour ago, JonnyF said:

Nah.

 

Sturgeon is just using that as an attempt to justify re-running the vote. She wants to ruin Scotland for her own personal ambition. She'd rather have total power over an unsuccessful country than limited power over a successful one. I don't think the Scots are silly enough to fall for it.

Nailed it, now hopefully she will disappear!!

[RichardColeman]

I've still never seen the proposal for how they will fence up scotland with a wall to stop border crossings - you want go, up to you, but I'd want a 20 ft high wall US mexican border between us and scotland !!  They think the Irish border an issue, that would be nothing to scotland leaving issue. Besides these scots do not want to let the scots in the rest of the UK vote on it - which they should as they would have to apply for UK citizenship potentially !

[ozimoron]

1 hour ago, JonnyF said:

Nah.

 

Sturgeon is just using that as an attempt to justify re-running the vote. She wants to ruin Scotland for her own personal ambition. She'd rather have total power over an unsuccessful country than limited power over a successful one. I don't think the Scots are silly enough to fall for it.

It's not up to Sturgeon is it? Got a problem with voting?

[Social Media]

 

[jak2002003]

7 minutes ago, RichardColeman said:

I've still never seen the proposal for how they will fence up scotland with a wall to stop border crossings - you want go, up to you, but I'd want a 20 ft high wall US mexican border between us and scotland !!  They think the Irish border an issue, that would be nothing to scotland leaving issue. Besides these scots do not want to let the scots in the rest of the UK vote on it - which they should as they would have to apply for UK citizenship potentially !

How about same as the border between Ireland and northern Ireland?

[vinny41]

11 minutes ago, ozimoron said:

That's actually quite a lot for any poll and it's by far not the only poll around indicating similar results.

Not really when you compared it to the 2016 referendum with total number of votes 

33,577,342

I know many people that wouldn't accept cold calls or use the internet

so pollster are unable to gain their votes

I know many people that will tell you where to go if you ask them personal questions about them or their views

[ozimoron]

Just now, vinny41 said:

Not really when you compared it to the 2016 referendum with total number of votes 

33,577,342

I know many people that wouldn't accept cold calls or use the internet

so pollster are unable to gain their votes

I know many people that will tell you where to go if you ask them personal questions about them or their views

That's an election, not a poll.

[SunnyinBangrak]

21 minutes ago, ozimoron said:

That's actually quite a lot for any poll and it's by far not the only poll around indicating similar results.

Yet a poll of 15 million a couple of days ago was dismissed as meaningless garbage? 

[JayClay]

1 hour ago, ozimoron said:

A survey from YouGov reveals only 32% of Britons believe it was right to leave and 56% think it was wrong

And if you break it down by age group it gets way more interesting.

 

The only demographic keeping Brexit remotely alive in public support are the 50+. They won't be around for ever...

[vinny41]

1 minute ago, ozimoron said:

That's an election, not a poll.

And its an election that will only give you a true result not some poll which are normally based on data modelling or data manipulation

and are only even published if they meet the requirements of the sponsor

Would we ever see a poll published that was sponsored by Brand A and they were expecting the poll to provide results that Brand A is the best thing since silced bread but the poll came back that the  majority of people that took part in the poll prefered Brand Z no we wouldn't

[JonnyF]

15 minutes ago, ozimoron said:

It's not up to Sturgeon is it?

Sturgeon is the one calling for another referendum.

 

15 minutes ago, ozimoron said:

 

Got a problem with voting?

I have no problem with voting. As long as the result of the vote is accepted and not re-run until the "correct" result is reached. Scotland already voted to stay in the UK in 2014. It's been decided already.

[ozimoron]

Just now, JonnyF said:

Sturgeon is the one calling for another referendum.

 

I have no problem with voting. As long as the result of the vote is accepted and not re-run until the "correct" result is reached. Scotland already voted to stay in the UK in 2014. It's been decided already.

8 years and a Brexit later which Scotland didn't want isn't enough justification? What are you afraid of? They may reverse the 2014 referendum?

[vinny41]

4 minutes ago, ozimoron said:

8 years and a Brexit later which Scotland didn't want isn't enough justification? What are you afraid of? They may reverse the 2014 referendum?

Who knows maybe if they hadn't denied a vote to approx 1 million Scots including 800,000 living in the rest of the UK the result might have been different

https://www.reuters.com/article/us-scotland-independence-expatriates-idUSBREA0Q1JC20140127

[ozimoron]

2 minutes ago, vinny41 said:

Who knows maybe if they hadn't denied a vote to approx 1 million Scots including 800,000 living in the rest of the UK the result might have been different

https://www.reuters.com/article/us-scotland-independence-expatriates-idUSBREA0Q1JC20140127

“It’s appalling as it’s taking away our birthright and is morally wrong. I may have lived in England since I was eight but I am still at heart a Scotsman,” said 67-year-old Gillies.

 

LOL

[mommysboy]

5 minutes ago, ozimoron said:

8 years and a Brexit later which Scotland didn't want isn't enough justification? What are you afraid of? They may reverse the 2014 referendum?

Well, yes of course, and that there may be considerable division both within the UK, and in Scotland, where significant parts are fiercely pro union. The matter was done and dusted just 8 years ago, and it was agreed that it was a once and for all referendum. These referendums are so divisive and any result would likely not be definitive anyway- causing more problems than it solves.