‘What if the worst had happened?’ Trudeau defends convoy response

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1 hour ago, blazes said:

You tell me what an unvaccinated Canadian was doing in the USA in the first  place.  All I know (which you can easily confirm by consulting news outlets at the time) is that one of the main impulses behind the convoy was the huge delays caused by  the prevention of unvaccinated Canadian truckers re-entering their own country.

These truckers were warned in advance. They chose to ignore the warnings.

[blazes]

26 minutes ago, JCauto said:

Hence there could ONLY be a small group of truckers who had somehow entered the USA unvaccinated prior to January 2022 who then wanted to return who were affected.

Speculation (what you are accusing me of!)

 

I will repeat, to satisfy your desire to know how conspiratorial your speculation is, that you should follow all the questions and answers in the inquiry that took  place this last week in Ottawa.  You can find a précis in places like the Globe and  Mail and the National Post.  (Btw, this whole thread follows upon, is dependent upon, this parliamentary inquiry.)

[JCauto]

17 minutes ago, blazes said:

Speculation (what you are accusing me of!)

 

I will repeat, to satisfy your desire to know how conspiratorial your speculation is, that you should follow all the questions and answers in the inquiry that took  place this last week in Ottawa.  You can find a précis in places like the Globe and  Mail and the National Post.  (Btw, this whole thread follows upon, is dependent upon, this parliamentary inquiry.)

https://www.fmcsa.dot.gov/international-programs/all-inbound-foreign-national-travelers-including-commercial-truck-drivers

 

There is the notification from the Department of Transport of the USA informing all inbound foreign national travelers including commercial truck drivers that they must be vaccinated and must provide proof of vaccination starting on 22 January 2022. This is what we call "verified proof" of what I have written in my posts.

https://globalnews.ca/news/8920039/canada-covid-rules-remaining-2022/

 

Here is a Canadian major news outlet confirming that in June 2022 these same rules remain in place and notes the connection between the COVID-19 rules and mandates and the "Freedom Convoy" protest AND notes that the restrictions for unvaccinated Canadian Truckers remain for any Canadian trying to get into the USA (note that these rules for the USA are set by the Government of the USA, a sovereign country that is South of Canada).

And here, from your preferred list of two possible news sources, is the summary of the inquiry into the invoking of the Emergency Act powers (The Globe is behind a paywall):

https://nationalpost.com/pmn/news-pmn/canada-news-pmn/emergencies-act-commission-hears-final-arguments-as-public-hearings-conclude
 

See how easy it is to find reputable sources that clearly support your statements? Now please find me the sources of your statements (I put them in Bold and Italics to distinguish them) such as:

"Again , ignorance of the situation in Canada.  This last week has been taken up with a parliamentary inquiry into why Trudeau found it necessary to proclaim the Emergencies Act.  In the course of the week, senior police and security officials have admitted that there was no foreign interference." So it should be very simple for you to either support this statement that you wrote with a quotation from senior police and security officials in a reputable newspaper or to admit you made the quotation up, or mis-remembered, or some sort of explanation that maintains your credibility.

 

"Also, to correct you further (surely you  must be American?), the (Canadian) truckers were being forced to be vaccinated if they wanted access to Canada.

They were specifically protesting the denial of their right to work and make a living bringing in provisions to all Canadians. " First of all, I am Canadian, born and raised in Toronto. Your statement notes the issue of Canadian Truckers needing vaccines to access Canada, but omits that they needed the same vaccines to get into the USA first anyway. I have emphasized this in my response, since it clearly removes any justification for the protests since nobody who was an unvaccinated Canadian trucker could get legally into the USA then haul their load back. Before these rules were promulgated, they provided warnings to the unvaccinated Canadian truckers that the new rules were coming, so that they could get back in time. So basically there was no basis for the protest so long as the same restrictions remained on the USA side, which is still the case today.

"Yes, because those same truckers were not denied entry into the US of A, whereas they were denied entry, if unvaccinated, into Canada.  Not only did this insane demand threaten loss of jobs in Canada, many businesses suffered financial loss by the holding-up of trucks at the border.  (Just by the way, those truckers were the least likely travellers to cause the spread of the already-in-decline virus. )" This is clearly incorrect as demonstrated by my references and noted by other posters. Yet you haven't acknowledged this error, withdrawn the post, or retracted your claim despite the clear evidence posted that it is incorrect, since the USA banned any unvaccinated Canadian truckers from entering from 22 January 2022 onwards and have yet to rescind that regulation.

 

"You tell me what an unvaccinated Canadian was doing in the USA in the first  place.  All I know (which you can easily confirm by consulting news outlets at the time) is that one of the main impulses behind the convoy was the huge delays caused by  the prevention of unvaccinated Canadian truckers re-entering their own country." Once again, you claimed that the USA was not preventing unvaccinated Canadian truckers from entering, then when I pointed out that they were explicitly prevented from entering you ask me to tell YOU how they got in there and what they were doing. Just absurd.

 

[AndyFoxy]

He certainly got put in his place by Mr. Xi

[blazes]

1 hour ago, JCauto said:

https://www.fmcsa.dot.gov/international-programs/all-inbound-foreign-national-travelers-including-commercial-truck-drivers

 

There is the notification from the Department of Transport of the USA informing all inbound foreign national travelers including commercial truck drivers that they must be vaccinated and must provide proof of vaccination starting on 22 January 2022. This is what we call "verified proof" of what I have written in my posts.

https://globalnews.ca/news/8920039/canada-covid-rules-remaining-2022/

 

Here is a Canadian major news outlet confirming that in June 2022 these same rules remain in place and notes the connection between the COVID-19 rules and mandates and the "Freedom Convoy" protest AND notes that the restrictions for unvaccinated Canadian Truckers remain for any Canadian trying to get into the USA (note that these rules for the USA are set by the Government of the USA, a sovereign country that is South of Canada).

And here, from your preferred list of two possible news sources, is the summary of the inquiry into the invoking of the Emergency Act powers (The Globe is behind a paywall):

https://nationalpost.com/pmn/news-pmn/canada-news-pmn/emergencies-act-commission-hears-final-arguments-as-public-hearings-conclude
 

See how easy it is to find reputable sources that clearly support your statements? Now please find me the sources of your statements (I put them in Bold and Italics to distinguish them) such as:

"Again , ignorance of the situation in Canada.  This last week has been taken up with a parliamentary inquiry into why Trudeau found it necessary to proclaim the Emergencies Act.  In the course of the week, senior police and security officials have admitted that there was no foreign interference." So it should be very simple for you to either support this statement that you wrote with a quotation from senior police and security officials in a reputable newspaper or to admit you made the quotation up, or mis-remembered, or some sort of explanation that maintains your credibility.

 

"Also, to correct you further (surely you  must be American?), the (Canadian) truckers were being forced to be vaccinated if they wanted access to Canada.

They were specifically protesting the denial of their right to work and make a living bringing in provisions to all Canadians. " First of all, I am Canadian, born and raised in Toronto. Your statement notes the issue of Canadian Truckers needing vaccines to access Canada, but omits that they needed the same vaccines to get into the USA first anyway. I have emphasized this in my response, since it clearly removes any justification for the protests since nobody who was an unvaccinated Canadian trucker could get legally into the USA then haul their load back. Before these rules were promulgated, they provided warnings to the unvaccinated Canadian truckers that the new rules were coming, so that they could get back in time. So basically there was no basis for the protest so long as the same restrictions remained on the USA side, which is still the case today.

"Yes, because those same truckers were not denied entry into the US of A, whereas they were denied entry, if unvaccinated, into Canada.  Not only did this insane demand threaten loss of jobs in Canada, many businesses suffered financial loss by the holding-up of trucks at the border.  (Just by the way, those truckers were the least likely travellers to cause the spread of the already-in-decline virus. )" This is clearly incorrect as demonstrated by my references and noted by other posters. Yet you haven't acknowledged this error, withdrawn the post, or retracted your claim despite the clear evidence posted that it is incorrect, since the USA banned any unvaccinated Canadian truckers from entering from 22 January 2022 onwards and have yet to rescind that regulation.

 

"You tell me what an unvaccinated Canadian was doing in the USA in the first  place.  All I know (which you can easily confirm by consulting news outlets at the time) is that one of the main impulses behind the convoy was the huge delays caused by  the prevention of unvaccinated Canadian truckers re-entering their own country." Once again, you claimed that the USA was not preventing unvaccinated Canadian truckers from entering, then when I pointed out that they were explicitly prevented from entering you ask me to tell YOU how they got in there and what they were doing. Just absurd.

 

what  an amazing expenditure of emotional energy!! 

[candide]

It seems this is completely incoherent:

- they were protesting against the obligation to be vaccinated in order to go back to  Canada from the U.S., but they had to be vaccinated to drive into the U.S. anyway .

- and anyway 90% of truckers were already vaccinated

https://www.newsweek.com/canadian-freedom-truckers-protest-vaccines-90-percent-drivers-vaccinated-1674109

https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/london/trucker-protest-convoy-southwestern-ontario-1.6329118

[ozimoron]

9 minutes ago, candide said:

It seems this is completely incoherent:

- they were protesting against the obligation to be vaccinated in order to go back to  Canada from the U.S., but they had to be vaccinated to drive into the U.S. anyway .

- and anyway 90% of truckers were already vaccinated

https://www.newsweek.com/canadian-freedom-truckers-protest-vaccines-90-percent-drivers-vaccinated-1674109

https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/london/trucker-protest-convoy-southwestern-ontario-1.6329118

I think it's perfectly understandable. Just like many anti-vaxers here, many were vaccinated. The convoy was a political protest by anti-democratic fascists who used the vaccines as a proxy, nothing more.

 

Some 36,000 Canadian donors — about 39 per cent — are listed in the partial leak, apparently taken from U.S.-based platform GiveSendGo and posted online by a website devoted to disseminating leaked data.

But that number is dwarfed by the number of American donors — some 51,000 or about 55 per cent.

 

https://www.ctvnews.ca/canada/convoy-fundraising-leak-shows-substantial-u-s-donations-75k-from-canadian-donor-1.5780989

Edited November 27, 2022 by ozimoron

[impulse]

The wheels of justice grind slowly, but grind they do...  Now let's see if there's any consequences.

 

Court Declares Justin Trudeau’s Sweeping Actions To Suppress Trucker Protests Were Illegal

 

https://dailycaller.com/2024/01/23/court-declares-justin-trudeaus-sweeping-actions-suppress-trucker-protests-illegal/

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30 minutes ago, impulse said:

The wheels of justice grind slowly, but grind they do...  Now let's see if there's any consequences.

 

Court Declares Justin Trudeau’s Sweeping Actions To Suppress Trucker Protests Were Illegal

 

https://dailycaller.com/2024/01/23/court-declares-justin-trudeaus-sweeping-actions-suppress-trucker-protests-illegal/

First off, as the article notes a lower court upheld the government's action and this decision will be appealed. So, your hope for consequences depends not on this ruling but that of a higher court. By the way, even though the judge decided against the government there is this:

"In a lengthy ruling published Tuesday, Federal Court Justice Richard Mosley found that though the Freedom Convoy protests in early 2022 were causing harm to Canada’s economy, trade and commerce, they did not rise to the level of a threat to national security as defined by the law."

https://nationalpost.com/news/canada/liberal-governments-invoking-of-emergencies-act-during-freedom-convoy-unreasonable-unjustified-ruling

Edited January 24 by placeholder

[impulse]

1 minute ago, placeholder said:

First off, as the article notes a lower court upheld the government's action and this decision will be appealed. By the way, even though the judge decided against the government there is this:

 

Like I said, the wheels of justice grind slowly...  It'll be interesting to see the results of the appeal.  In another year or so?

 

[placeholder]

On 11/27/2022 at 2:57 PM, blazes said:

what  an amazing expenditure of emotional energy!! 

Making it personal is just your way of confessing that you've got nothing.

[impulse]

1 minute ago, placeholder said:

Making it personal is just your way of confessing that you've got nothing.

 

You should note that I picked up on a long dormant thread...  You may be yelling at a cloud.  I've done that before.

 

[placeholder]

1 minute ago, impulse said:

 

Like I said, the wheels of justice grind slowly...  It'll be interesting to see the results of the appeal.  In another year or so?

 

And as I pointed out, before there are consequences there has to be a final judicial decision. 

[placeholder]

Just now, impulse said:

 

You should note that I picked up on a long dormant thread...  You may be yelling at a cloud.  I've done that before.

 

Well, the Judge Mosely's decision was rendered on January 23, 2024.

[impulse]

1 minute ago, placeholder said:

And as I pointed out, before there are consequences there has to be a final judicial decision. 

 

I don't know enough about the Canadian legal system to know if a lawsuit can be launched and/or litigated based on a decision by a lower court.  I'd like to think some of the truckers who were wronged (on several levels) won't have to wait for years to get their justice.

 

[impulse]

1 minute ago, placeholder said:

Well, the Judge Mosely's decision was rendered on January 23, 2024.

 

Your reply above was to a Nov, 2022 post by Blazes.

 

 

[placeholder]

22 minutes ago, impulse said:

 

Your reply above was to a Nov, 2022 post by Blazes.

 

 

Oops! 

[placeholder]

24 minutes ago, impulse said:

 

I don't know enough about the Canadian legal system to know if a lawsuit can be launched and/or litigated based on a decision by a lower court.  I'd like to think some of the truckers who were wronged (on several levels) won't have to wait for years to get their justice.

 

Clearly, if a legal issue is still being adjudicated, than a court isn't going to potentially waste its time by allowing a dependent lawsuit to go ahead.