Thai Immigration continues overstaying crackdown, passport checks take place across Pattaya

[ThailandRyan]

7 minutes ago, Leaver said:

 

I agree, and it's not a serious attempt at detecting overstayers.  It's part of a bigger agenda that involves police also. 

 

If they were serious about catching overstayers, one of the simplest ways would be to track their mobile phone. 

Yet if someone was serious as a criminal and overstayed, do you really think they would keep a sim card they had and the same number...try again.  When I first came here years ago I changed my sim card monthly after the promotion ran out and to many BS calls occurred because they were looking for their friend who had the number prior to me.  I use my Smart phone without a sim card now adays and use the calling apps which are free, like messenger and so on.  How do you track that......especially with a VPN running.

[ThailandRyan]

3 minutes ago, mikeymike100 said:

Quite right, plus the immigration database has everyone details and they could easily see who has overstayed and those people living in Thailand would have had to provide an address TM30?

I went to change my address this past week to here in HH and was met with many obstacles in completing a new TM-30 as I have a condo in BKK and am registered there.  The IO wanted to know why I wanted to do a new residence registration if I was going back and forth to my condo, which I also own.  I explained that this was now my new primary address.

 

Many people move and never update the information.  I also tried to change my address with DLT on my licenses and vehicle registration books, only to be told I had to go the Bangkok and change it there, or instead go to the PKK Mueang and change my license plates to the plates from this province and then I needed to have my blue book and so on.   

 

Why do you think Thais never change there addresses, it is such a hassle.  Tracking someone who does not do a 90 day report and is just an overstaying tourist who is flying under the radar and staying with friends etc... is pretty hard to do. 

 

I told the lady at the DLT I needed to change my address in case I ever caught a speeding ticket issued by the radar cameras that I would receive the ticket with the right address on it and in a timely manner before my fine increased and my points with the new system increased......it is not rocket science here, yet they make it tough to just do something so simple.  She informed me either go change my plates on my car and motorbike in PKK at the main office, or go to Chatuchack and have them change it in the system so I can keep my plates and so on.........  I also went to PEA and tried to change the PEA Bill into my name but since my blue book has no name in it they told me I would need a yellow book showing I reside there, and no the COR I had obtained at HH Immigration was not good enough.

[PJ71]

21 minutes ago, ThailandRyan said:

I went to change my address this past week to here in HH and was met with many obstacles in completing a new TM-30 as I have a condo in BKK and am registered there.  The IO wanted to know why I wanted to do a new residence registration if I was going back and forth to my condo, which I also own.  I explained that this was now my new primary address.

 

Many people move and never update the information.  I also tried to change my address with DLT on my licenses and vehicle registration books, only to be told I had to go the Bangkok and change it there, or instead go to the PKK Mueang and change my license plates to the plates from this province and then I needed to have my blue book and so on.   

 

Why do you think Thais never change there addresses, it is such a hassle.  Tracking someone who does not do a 90 day report and is just an overstaying tourist who is flying under the radar and staying with friends etc... is pretty hard to do. 

 

I told the lady at the DLT I needed to change my address in case I ever caught a speeding ticket issued by the radar cameras that I would receive the ticket with the right address on it and in a timely manner before my fine increased and my points with the new system increased......it is not rocket science here, yet they make it tough to just do something so simple.  She informed me either go change my plates on my car and motorbike in PKK at the main office, or go to Chatuchack and have them change it in the system so I can keep my plates and so on.........  I also went to PEA and tried to change the PEA Bill into my name but since my blue book has no name in it they told me I would need a yellow book showing I reside there, and no the COR I had obtained at HH Immigration was not good enough.

Sounds like you need to contact member Richard Smith, he'll have all the answers of how it's done.

 

I believe the process for changing all the info for the locals is much easier than what you suggest. Wifey recently got a new passport ( in P'lok ), made an appointment online, 10 minutes in office, 2 days later through the letter box - job done.

[Leaver]

3 hours ago, ThailandRyan said:

No problem getting stopped on the holiday, and I would enjoy the interaction to see exactly how they were protecting myself and other tourists.  I guess you just want reactive law enforcement where they only respond after some feces has happened, like you getting scammed, or your information used by someone else because you lost your passport or ID.  Yet another one who only complains when they are not doing there jobs.....Immigration officers are out there looking for folks who are causing problems or could potentially be in violation of the rules......sure is a pitiful world when immigration officers, who by the way are law enforcement in their own respect, get treated like you are treating them, with disrespect.

 

They should be doing more targeted investigative work, not random stops of people in the middle of a tourist area. 

 

It's about a better use of resources. 

 

To my knowledge, overstaying is not a criminal offense.  An overstayer is deported, not charged, sentenced and deported.  So they are not exactly law enforcement, are they? 

 

Edited December 9, 2022 by Leaver

[nigelforbes]

14 minutes ago, Leaver said:

 

They should be doing more targeted investigative work, not random stops of people in the middle of a tourist area. 

 

It's about a better use of resources. 

 

To my knowledge, overstaying is not a criminal offense.  An overstayer is deported, not charged, sentenced and deported.  So they are not exactly law enforcement, are they? 

 

Immigration is a department within the Royal Thai Police so yes, they exactly are law enforcement and I'm pretty certain they understand the law better than you or I.

 

As for doing a better job differently: are you an experienced law enforcement specialist, do you have specialized knowledge and training about such things or it this merely a skill you acquired from playing with your Mr Junior Police Kit?

[Leaver]

17 minutes ago, nigelforbes said:

Immigration is a department within the Royal Thai Police so yes, they exactly are law enforcement and I'm pretty certain they understand the law better than you or I.

 

The Royal Thai Police have an admin section, so I suppose they are law enforcement also.  They also employ cleaners, so I guess that makes them law enforcement as well. ????

 

19 minutes ago, nigelforbes said:

As for doing a better job differently: are you an experienced law enforcement specialist, do you have specialized knowledge and training about such things

 

I'm ex SAS.  ???? 

 

So, while they are doing random stops of people in the nightlife area, an expat overstayer in Pattaya, who has an electric account in his name for his condo that he resides in, and pays the bill on time, doesn't even get a knock on the door, and you don't think Immigration Officers patrolling around Tree Town is part of a bigger agenda attached to the 2am closing crackdown?   Seriously?

[nigelforbes]

1 minute ago, Leaver said:

 

The Royal Thai Police have an admin section, so I suppose they are law enforcement also.  They also employ cleaners, so I guess that makes them law enforcement as well. ????

 

 

I'm ex SAS.  ???? 

 

So, while they are doing random stops of people in the nightlife area, an expat overstayer in Pattaya, who has an electric account in his name for his condo that he resides in, and pays the bill on time, doesn't even get a knock on the door, and you don't think Immigration Officers patrolling around Tree Town is part of a bigger agenda attached to the 2am closing crackdown?   Seriously?

I'm ex SBS

 

[Leaver]

5 hours ago, ThailandRyan said:

Yet if someone was serious as a criminal and overstayed, do you really think they would keep a sim card they had and the same number..

 

We are discussing overstayers, not criminals. 

 

Once again, to my knowledge, overstaying is not a criminal offense. 

 

5 hours ago, ThailandRyan said:

When I first came here years ago I changed my sim card monthly after the promotion ran out and to many BS calls occurred because they were looking for their friend who had the number prior to me. 

 

In those days you didn't have to register the sim cards.  Then, people started using unregistered sim cards to detonate bomb, hence, a registration process was implemented.  That  involves ID Cards or Passports.

 

Sure, he could pay a bar girl to set up a sim card for him, but if he uses the phone to contact or connect with anyone or anything, for example a bank account, they have the phone, and have him.

 

5 hours ago, ThailandRyan said:

I use my Smart phone without a sim card now adays and use the calling apps which are free, like messenger and so on.  How do you track that......especially with a VPN running.

 

You may find this short clip interesting.

 

If this is what Google collect from a phone that has no sim card and is not connected to the internet, you can be sure law enforcement can collect a lot more.

 

 

 

 

 

As for VPN's, well, no one is anonymous on the internet.  I wouldn't trust VPN company claims of zero knowledge logs.  Even government agencies in America have set up Tor exit nodes to capture data, so Tor can no longer offer anonymity. 

[ThailandRyan]

11 minutes ago, Leaver said:

 

We are discussing overstayers, not criminals. 

 

Once again, to my knowledge, overstaying is not a criminal offense. 

 

 

In those days you didn't have to register the sim cards.  Then, people started using unregistered sim cards to detonate bomb, hence, a registration process was implemented.  That  involves ID Cards or Passports.

 

Sure, he could pay a bar girl to set up a sim card for him, but if he uses the phone to contact or connect with anyone or anything, for example a bank account, they have the phone, and have him.

 

 

You may find this short clip interesting.

 

If this is what Google collect from a phone that has no sim card and is not connected to the internet, you can be sure law enforcement can collect a lot more.

 

 

 

 

 

As for VPN's, well, no one is anonymous on the internet.  I wouldn't trust VPN company claims of zero knowledge logs.  Even government agencies in America have set up Tor exit nodes to capture data, so Tor can no longer offer anonymity. 

So if being in violation of immigration law and overstaying is not an offense then why are people jailed, fined and deported after seeing a judge...try again.  You really have never learned anything about law enforcement during your lifetime have you.

 

Turning off your GPS, your location and doing a few root things to your phone can make you invisible as well as bouncing your signal across the globe.  I had a case where we tracked an individual to the location of a crime by his phones signal, connection, GPS and a few other proprietary computer programs.  Yet when it came to court the judge threw it out as we did not have a search warrant for his phones signal.........

Edited December 9, 2022 by ThailandRyan

[Leaver]

1 hour ago, ThailandRyan said:

So if being in violation of immigration law and overstaying is not an offense then why are people jailed, fined and deported

 

There are offenses, and there are criminal offenses.  Eg. not wearing a helmet.  Yes, not wearing a helmet is a traffic offense, but not a criminal offense. 

 

I believe overstayers are detained, not gaoled.  They go to a detention center, not a prison.  Am I wrong?

 

You say an overstayer is put before a judge.  I have no knowledge of this, but happy to learn.  Why would an overstayer be put before a judge?  There is no presumption of innocence for a strict liability offense.  What is there for a judge to rule on? 

 

1 hour ago, ThailandRyan said:

Turning off your GPS, your location and doing a few root things to your phone can make you invisible as well as bouncing your signal across the globe.  I had a case where we tracked an individual to the location of a crime by his phones signal, connection, GPS and a few other proprietary computer programs.  Yet when it came to court the judge threw it out as we did not have a search warrant for his phones signal.........

No, you do not become invisible when using wifi with a VPN and talking on a messaging app, just because you turned off GPS and location services, and as a side issue, what of the person you are contacting, law enforcement can reverse trace. 

 

I am not sure what sloppy police work has to do with tracking a person via their phone, but it may interest some that law enforcement can turn on the microphone of a device and listen in.  They effectively make the phone their "bug." No need for a building entry.  

 

In any case, all over Thailand there are overstayers.  Some by days, some by months, and some by years, and some by a lot of years.  With some basic investigative work they could find them.  ATM's, sim card, utility bills, property ownership, vehicle registration, finding their wife etc.  They could start with the longest overstayers first, but no, lets do random stops in Tree Town with a squad of around 20 officers who want to show bar owners they are all thirsty for some "tea." 

 

Once again, if 2am closing isn't going to start the "tea" flowing again, what next, pool table licenses, dart board licenses? 

 

How long before police play their final card, the elephant in the room, and start raiding bars for prostitution?

 

[ThailandRyan]

10 minutes ago, Leaver said:

 

There are offenses, and there are criminal offenses.  Eg. not wearing a helmet.  Yes, not wearing a helmet is a traffic offense, but not a criminal offense. 

 

I believe overstayers are detained, not gaoled.  They go to a detention center, not a prison.  Am I wrong?

 

You say an overstayer is put before a judge.  I have no knowledge of this, but happy to learn.  Why would an overstayer be put before a judge?  There is no presumption of innocence for a strict liability offense.  What is there for a judge to rule on? 

 

No, you do not become invisible when using wifi with a VPN and talking on a messaging app, just because you turned off GPS and location services, and as a side issue, what of the person you are contacting, law enforcement can reverse trace. 

 

I am not sure what sloppy police work has to do with tracking a person via their phone, but it may interest some that law enforcement can turn on the microphone of a device and listen in.  They effectively make the phone their "bug." No need for a building entry.  

 

In any case, all over Thailand there are overstayers.  Some by days, some by months, and some by years, and some by a lot of years.  With some basic investigative work they could find them.  ATM's, sim card, utility bills, property ownership, vehicle registration, finding their wife etc.  They could start with the longest overstayers first, but no, lets do random stops in Tree Town with a squad of around 20 officers who want to show bar owners they are all thirsty for some "tea." 

 

Once again, if 2am closing isn't going to start the "tea" flowing again, what next, pool table licenses, dart board licenses? 

 

How long before police play their final card, the elephant in the room, and start raiding bars for prostitution?

 

All I can say is if you've never been in law enforcement you have no idea of what your talking about in retrospect to certain issues.  You sound like an angry individual and with that my trying to have a discussion with you is done as you are to set in your views and beliefs.....

[Leaver]

3 minutes ago, ThailandRyan said:

All I can say is if you've never been in law enforcement you have no idea of what your talking about in retrospect to certain issues.  You sound like an angry individual and with that my trying to have a discussion with you is done as you are to set in your views and beliefs.....

 

Funny reply. 

 

You personally attack me, and do not address my post/s at all. 

 

Could it be because it's you who hasn't a clue, or perhaps have simply been out of the game for too long?

 

 

[ThailandRyan]

5 minutes ago, Leaver said:

 

Funny reply. 

 

You personally attack me, and do not address my post/s at all. 

 

Could it be because it's you who hasn't a clue, or perhaps have simply been out of the game for too long?

 

 

Still in the game my friend.......your funny.  As far as you being a wealthy individual you also have a hard time finding the proper way to stay in Thailand as well.  You can lead a horse to water but you can not make them drink...........Adios.

[nigelforbes]

On 12/8/2022 at 5:29 PM, Barnet1900 said:

Triads?? Why do you keep talking Triads? The story is about visa overstay in Pattaya not Triad crime.

 

Read the story...police said they would listen if people handed themselves in. Does that sound like your version of a Triad?

 

My point is that they target westerners not other tourists. If the Chinese tourists were here I am certain they'd be left alone 

 

Your Triads are nothing to do with this. They are not reporting on targetted Triad members, like the previous stories you are referring to. Go and have another go.

Just to help you with your dot joining exercise:

 

 

[jacko45k]

13 hours ago, ThailandRyan said:

Yet when it came to court the judge threw it out as we did not have a search warrant for his phones signal.........

I doubt that would be an issue here in Thailand!

[thaibeachlovers]

On 12/9/2022 at 12:01 PM, nigelforbes said:

A few people here simply don't get that the story is just not about them or their countrymen. Western tourists and expats are in a serious minority in Thailand when compared to other nationalities such as the Chinese who are in the millions (even though China is still officially closed).

 

I realize this is a blow to your pride and vanity but nobody is too interested in you, apart from the occasional farang hack who stumbles across a story involving a Westerner on overstay, which he thinks will make good journalistic bait in the English media here. Your spending power is not important either. The 800K you need for your visa may be important to you but that's the only person that it is. Your big spending antics for a few weeks each year don't excite anyone either, if you want to see big spending tourists behave, understand the way many Asians behave, they'll make you feel proper poor! Ah yes, but as an expat I spend 50/70k every month which is far more than the average Thai makes on 15k/24k. Indeed, except there's 38 million Thai's in the workforce and fewer than 150k retired expats.

 

Get over yourselves.

Excellent post.

I often get a chuckle when some farang claims that the few thousands they contribute to the Thai economy means that "farangs" are important.

What is rather astounding though, is that they actually seem to believe that Thai elites should change things to benefit farangs, because we want to live in LOS and marry Thai women.

I can only believe that they don't get out much and visit more of the country than where they live. Farangs are so few on the ground in most of Thailand that IMO most Thais have no, or almost no, contact with a farang.

[thaibeachlovers]

On 12/9/2022 at 9:44 PM, Leaver said:

 

They should be doing more targeted investigative work, not random stops of people in the middle of a tourist area. 

 

It's about a better use of resources. 

 

To my knowledge, overstaying is not a criminal offense.  An overstayer is deported, not charged, sentenced and deported.  So they are not exactly law enforcement, are they? 

 

How can you say that overstaying is not a criminal offense? They deprive people of their liberty till they can pay for the ticket home. They also put a stamp in the passport to deny a return.

Sure sounds like a criminal offense to me.

[thaibeachlovers]

On 12/9/2022 at 9:44 PM, Leaver said:

They should be doing more targeted investigative work, not random stops of people in the middle of a tourist area. 

 

It's about a better use of resources. 

Errr, if the Thai police want to randomly stop anyone they feel like, they can do so, and it's certainly not our place to claim that it's a "waste of resources".

It's better to deter criminality by having a visible presence on the streets, than it is to turn up after the crime has happened. So, by making people think there is a chance of being picked up for overstay by a random stop, the overstayers may depart Thailand, and others may not become overstayers.

[nigelforbes]

1 hour ago, thaibeachlovers said:

Excellent post.

I often get a chuckle when some farang claims that the few thousands they contribute to the Thai economy means that "farangs" are important.

What is rather astounding though, is that they actually seem to believe that Thai elites should change things to benefit farangs, because we want to live in LOS and marry Thai women.

I can only believe that they don't get out much and visit more of the country than where they live. Farangs are so few on the ground in most of Thailand that IMO most Thais have no, or almost no, contact with a farang.

This is the truly troubling part, the farang sense of entitlement. I have this Harry Enfield like character in my mind, Mr Farang Loadsamoney barges his way through airport Immigration checks, I don't need a visa, I'm a farang and I can do what I want, in fact you don't need to see my passport, that's racist. Report every 90 days, that's racist too. And, I can drive here, I've got a license from back home, that's plenty. Stupid backwards people they will say, a third world country that doesn't have a clue, they should get some farangs in here to fix things. If we all left and took our money with us, the banks and the economy would be in serious trouble,  they should treat us better, they say. Is it any wonder that Gov. and Immi, responds to the antics of foreigners the way they do and constantly tweak the rules in response to the latest farang workaround or avoidance routine.

 

If the thin veneer of Thai tolerance were stripped away from the locals, more farangs would spend their holidays in ICU beds! The interesting part is that when they go home, they complain about all the foreigners in their home country. Look at this place they will say, the country's immigration and border security programs are a failure and the economy is a joke. Arf arf arf.

[thaibeachlovers]

1 hour ago, nigelforbes said:

. I have this Harry Enfield like character in my mind, Mr Farang Loadsamoney barges his way through airport Immigration checks, I don't need a visa, I'm a farang and I can do what I want, in fact you don't need to see my passport, that's racist. Report every 90 days, that's racist too. And, I can drive here, I've got a license from back home, that's plenty.

LOL. I'd like to add that they are likely to be the ones that drive the largest SUV that they can find down the crowded city streets in LOS, and make their wives use a push chair for the offspring even though they have to make everyone move out of the way on the pavement. I once saw a foreigner trying to push a side by side pram along the busy side of Sukhumvit opposite Soi 4. I didn't wait to see how long before he gave up, but I doubt it was long.

[Leaver]

On 12/11/2022 at 8:37 PM, thaibeachlovers said:

How can you say that overstaying is not a criminal offense?

 

Are overstayers sentenced to gaol before being deported?  

 

On 12/11/2022 at 8:37 PM, thaibeachlovers said:

They deprive people of their liberty till they can pay for the ticket home. They also put a stamp in the passport to deny a return.

 

That's called being "detained" not being imprisoned. 

 

On 12/11/2022 at 8:37 PM, thaibeachlovers said:

Sure sounds like a criminal offense to me.

 

What are the sentences for overstaying?  Yes, there's a fine, but is it a criminal offense?  

 

Does the guy up in Issan who is an overstay for 3 years get sentenced to gaol for overstaying?  Can you post a link where an overstayer has been sentenced to gaol? 

[Leaver]

On 12/11/2022 at 8:44 PM, thaibeachlovers said:

Errr, if the Thai police want to randomly stop anyone they feel like, they can do so, and it's certainly not our place to claim that it's a "waste of resources".

 

Errr, if Thai police want to extort "tea money" from businesses, it's certainly not our place to claim it's corruption.  ????

 

On 12/11/2022 at 8:44 PM, thaibeachlovers said:

It's better to deter criminality by having a visible presence on the streets, than it is to turn up after the crime has happened.

 

The people that should be deterring crime are the criminals.  We all know this. 

 

On 12/11/2022 at 8:44 PM, thaibeachlovers said:

So, by making people think there is a chance of being picked up for overstay by a random stop, the overstayers may depart Thailand, and others may not become overstayers.

 

Or, just go pay an "agent."  ????

[nigelforbes]

14 minutes ago, Leaver said:

 

Errr, if Thai police want to extort "tea money" from businesses, it's certainly not our place to claim it's corruption.  ????

 

 

The people that should be deterring crime are the criminals.  We all know this. 

 

 

Or, just go pay an "agent."  ????

That gets my vote for the line of the month award,

 

"The people that should be deterring crime are the criminals".

 

[StayinThailand2much]

On 12/7/2022 at 11:53 AM, ronster said:

How ?? 
Ensuring safety how ? 

Arresting all those overstayers, a.k.a. hardened criminals...

[Leaver]

14 minutes ago, nigelforbes said:

That gets my vote for the line of the month award,

 

"The people that should be deterring crime are the criminals".

 

 

It's been that way for decades. 

 

The other member flips property here, so a big conflict of interest.  Grain of salt. 

[thaibeachlovers]

On 12/24/2022 at 2:56 AM, Leaver said:

 

Are overstayers sentenced to gaol before being deported?  

 

 

That's called being "detained" not being imprisoned. 

 

 

What are the sentences for overstaying?  Yes, there's a fine, but is it a criminal offense?  

 

Does the guy up in Issan who is an overstay for 3 years get sentenced to gaol for overstaying?  Can you post a link where an overstayer has been sentenced to gaol? 

What on earth are you on about? Many criminals are not sent to jail. Some are fined, but STILL CRIMINALS.

 

https://www.vocabulary.com/dictionary/criminal

Definitions of criminal

noun

someone who has committed a crime or has been legally convicted of a crime

[thaibeachlovers]

On 12/24/2022 at 3:04 AM, Leaver said:

Or, just go pay an "agent."  ????

If they could afford an agent they wouldn't be overstayers.

[jacko45k]

4 hours ago, thaibeachlovers said:

What on earth are you on about? Many criminals are not sent to jail. Some are fined, but STILL CRIMINALS.

Don't waste your time, that guy could have an argument in an empty room!

[Leaver]

On 12/27/2022 at 8:23 PM, thaibeachlovers said:

What on earth are you on about? Many criminals are not sent to jail. Some are fined, but STILL CRIMINALS.

 

So, is not wearing a helmet, which attracts a fine, a CRIMINAL offense, or a traffic offense?  Do you even know the difference? 

 

Geez, next think you will be posting is people who pay a bar FINE are criminals because the word for their payment is called a FINE.  ????

[thaibeachlovers]

1 hour ago, Leaver said:

 

So, is not wearing a helmet, which attracts a fine, a CRIMINAL offense, or a traffic offense?  Do you even know the difference? 

 

Geez, next think you will be posting is people who pay a bar FINE are criminals because the word for their payment is called a FINE.  ????

Whatever, carry on without me.