Can Thailand afford to raise minimum wage to 600 baht?

[Neeranam]

2 hours ago, puchooay said:

No, it isn't. 7/11 pay at least minimum wage.

I think they pay 30b/hour.

[mrfill]

2 hours ago, worgeordie said:

Making it a 5 day working week for everyone would be an improvement ,

When I started work 60 odd  years ago it was 5,5 working week , now 

4 to 4,5 , working 6 days a week you are living to work , not working to

live ,

regards worgeordie

I doubt that cutting the lowest paid workers salary by around 15% would be viewed as much of an improvement.

[OneMoreFarang]

Why not 450B? Or 670B?

 

It's an election promise and to make it simple for simple minded people just double the current 300B per day.

I guess now all those minimum workers will think that with double the money in their pockets they will be able to afford double the number of things. Or maybe not?

If all the shop attendees and workers and restaurant service will get double, who will pay for that? Obviously things have to get more expensive. And if all supplies and suppliers are more expensive than all products will be more expensive. And then? What is left from the idea to spend all that extra money?

 

IMHO salaries should be paid according to what makes sense. Some people with more skills will earn more money and others with low skills or lazy people will earn less. And then there are obviously all those international companies who think twice if they want to pay double in Thailand or invest somewhere else. Or they hire foreign workers in Thailand who work for less.

 

So why was it promised? Because it makes sense? Or because lots of gullible people will vote for those nice Shinawatras who only want the best for the poor people?

It would be funny if it wouldn't be so sad and cynical.

[gomangosteen]

11 hours ago, digger70 said:

They say THB328 and THB354 that's Incorrect. 

Down here in the 7/11 shops it's THB 200  a day for long Hours that's THB 5000 for a 25 day Month. 

Eldest daughter worked at a 7/11 for the last three years of her university studies, part-time, and full-time during her uni vacation.

 

Finished with them in May this year, rate was 380 baht per shift at that time, with some seniority responsibility, also there was overtime available at times. She enjoyed it - good owners, several other uni students on staff, useful work experience apart from the money.

 

Same store has recently been advertising full-time vacancies starting a 10,500 per month, suggests they have increased the daily rate.

[Hummin]

2 minutes ago, OneMoreFarang said:

Why not 450B? Or 670B?

 

It's an election promise and to make it simple for simple minded people just double the current 300B per day.

I guess now all those minimum workers will think that with double the money in their pockets they will be able to afford double the number of things. Or maybe not?

If all the shop attendees and workers and restaurant service will get double, who will pay for that? Obviously things have to get more expensive. And if all supplies and suppliers are more expensive than all products will be more expensive. And then? What is left from the idea to spend all that extra money?

 

IMHO salaries should be paid according to what makes sense. Some people with more skills will earn more money and others with low skills or lazy people will earn less. And then there are obviously all those international companies who think twice if they want to pay double in Thailand or invest somewhere else. Or they hire foreign workers in Thailand who work for less.

 

So why was it promised? Because it makes sense? Or because lots of gullible people will vote for those nice Shinawatras who only want the best for the poor people?

It would be funny if it wouldn't be so sad and cynical.

Instead of 12 people working at same time in 7/11, there will be 4 in one shift! 

 

Coffe bars that is managed in Europe, have 3 staff, while here you have 6, and one shift supervisor!

[MrMojoRisin]

6 minutes ago, OneMoreFarang said:

Why not 450B? Or 670B?

 

It's an election promise and to make it simple for simple minded people just double the current 300B per day.

I guess now all those minimum workers will think that with double the money in their pockets they will be able to afford double the number of things. Or maybe not?

If all the shop attendees and workers and restaurant service will get double, who will pay for that? Obviously things have to get more expensive. And if all supplies and suppliers are more expensive than all products will be more expensive. And then? What is left from the idea to spend all that extra money?

 

IMHO salaries should be paid according to what makes sense. Some people with more skills will earn more money and others with low skills or lazy people will earn less. And then there are obviously all those international companies who think twice if they want to pay double in Thailand or invest somewhere else. Or they hire foreign workers in Thailand who work for less.

 

So why was it promised? Because it makes sense? Or because lots of gullible people will vote for those nice Shinawatras who only want the best for the poor people?

It would be funny if it wouldn't be so sad and cynical.

PT’s policy to raise the minimum wage is very similar to those being either proposed or already enacted around the world. 
 

The primary driving force - making up for lost ground as labours share of the pie has spent decade after decade trending downward.

[puchooay]

1 hour ago, moogradod said:

No, you seem to have no idea. I know because a Thai (!) family member applied just for fun. And @digger70 is correct in every regard as far as I can tell - as well with his other statements concerning working law and rules for the Thai. At least that is what I have seen.

 

[worgeordie]

2 hours ago, mrfill said:

I doubt that cutting the lowest paid workers salary by around 15% would be viewed as much of an improvement.

I would  expect they would get a pay rise to cover the less hours , having to work

6 days a week is not on in this day and age , it's not a life.

regards worgeordie

[In the jungle]

Pheu Thai say they will do this by 2027 and, with inflation, minimum wage (based on what Seven 11 pay now) for Thais will most likely be at that level by then anyway.

 

 

Edited December 15, 2022 by In the jungle

[In the jungle]

Our Burmese workers get 500 a day minimum now and there are no Thais rushing to do their jobs.

[moogradod]

3 hours ago, puchooay said:

 

And then you have to deduct the free days (no work - no pay) - so "full time" is nearly not possible, deduct what they need to pay by themselves (working clothes, shoes) ?. This looks like the 11'000.-- THB would be a fixed salary. MAYBE as the branch manager. This I do not know. This begs the question anyway: 11K for a job with responsibility for personnel and doing night shifts ? And then did you deduct the merchandise that got "lost" during operating hours ? The staff has to pay it (may depend on the branch). No risk for the owner. How about a paid holdiday - any idea how long this one is per year? It might be there isn't any at all. Any social benefits ?  A minimum if any. Do they get a working contract at all? etc. Maybe they do. Then all is good and a mutual agreement can be signed before starting to work. Otherwise stay home in bed. A job is a mutual agreementto my understanding.

 

But maybe not all branches are the same. Paid overtime ? You think that is of course self-explanatory, but I am not so sure it is (everywhere). My stepdaughter has been explained the conditions - never seen a  proposal for a working contract, either - beforehand. In any case nothing that I would sign from what I have heard. She did not start to work of course. We can easily finance a second household, but many are extradited to some employers.

 

Then how do I know ? It is because other reputable companies which I may not name because of the laws here have similar practices implemented (some do actually what they want)  and on top have even more questionable labour proctices in place. Of course no contract either. Too much of a risk that the practices are made known I am guessing (this is only a guess)  You do not want to agree to all that treatment after you have started working in a contractless state ?. They will find any naive beginner anytime again without any knowledge how the documentation of a working agreement should look like and what the labour laws of Thailand actually say and mean (they do exist for sure in much detail) and what your rights as a worker should be and what is acceptable and what is not. If you would complain - there is the door. Dreamjobs abound. Judge for yourself how you would call this working condition. Today.

 

Just google minimum salary Aldi Germany for comparable low key jobs like cashier etc. Ah and yes, they get a 13th salary as well. Yes, I know that this is not Europe here - but does this mean that youngsters without higher eduction must be treated in a way to be able to barely survive at the lowest level possible ? Even 600 Baht is a joke if you ask me.

[puchooay]

3 minutes ago, moogradod said:

And then you have to deduct the free days (no work - no pay) - so "full time" is nearly not possible, deduct what they need to pay by themselves (working clothes, shoes) ?. This looks like the 11'000.-- THB would be a fixed salary. MAYBE as the branch manager. This I do not know. This begs the question anyway: 11K for a job with responsibility for personnel and doing night shifts ? And then did you deduct the merchandise that got "lost" during operating hours ? The staff has to pay it (may depend on the branch). No risk for the owner. How about a paid holdiday - any idea how long this one is per year? It might be there isn't any at all. Any social benefits ?  A minimum if any. Do they get a working contract at all? etc. Maybe they do. Then all is good and a mutual agreement can be signed before starting to work. Otherwise stay home in bed. A job is a mutual agreementto my understanding.

 

But maybe not all branches are the same. Paid overtime ? You think that is of course self-explanatory, but I am not so sure it is (everywhere). My stepdaughter has been explained the conditions - never seen a  proposal for a working contract, either - beforehand. In any case nothing that I would sign from what I have heard. She did not start to work of course. We can easily finance a second household, but many are extradited to some employers.

 

Then how do I know ? It is because other reputable companies which I may not name because of the laws here have similar practices implemented (some do actually what they want)  and on top have even more questionable labour proctices in place. Of course no contract either. Too much of a risk that the practices are made known I am guessing (this is only a guess)  You do not want to agree to all that treatment after you have started working in a contractless state ?. They will find any naive beginner anytime again without any knowledge how the documentation of a working agreement should look like and what the labour laws of Thailand actually say and mean (they do exist for sure in much detail) and what your rights as a worker should be and what is acceptable and what is not. If you would complain - there is the door. Dreamjobs abound. Judge for yourself how you would call this working condition. Today.

 

Just google minimum salary Aldi Germany for comparable low key jobs like cashier etc. Ah and yes, they get a 13th salary as well. Yes, I know that this is not Europe here - but does this mean that youngsters without higher eduction must be treated in a way to be able to barely survive at the lowest level possible ? Even 600 Baht is a joke if you ask me.

You said I was wrong about the hourly rates. My post shows I sm not.

 

Your post is inane.

[moogradod]

4 minutes ago, puchooay said:

...................................

Your post is inane.

I think it would be a good idea to ask the working force what they believe is inane or not. I am not arguing about 30 Baht hourly compensation differences. I am talking about experiences of a member of my Thai family, taken from real life.

 

And after all I suppose neither you not me is directly touched by all this. You do not work in retail I suppose and I am retired anyway. Instead of charging each other we would better help the people that are suffering (from my point of view it is suffering) from these conditions. Why this all arises goes too far to be discussed here. There may be other threads contemplating about it.

 

So I wish you a nice evening.

 

 

[Lorry]

5 hours ago, Neeranam said:

I think they pay 30b/hour.

That was 10 years ago

[jacko45k]

19 hours ago, Photoguy21 said:

If you base it on a 5 day week it amounts to Baht 12,000 a month (assuming 4 weeks in the month). If the work is 7 days a week then it equates to Baht 16,400 for a 4 week month.

I cant believe any of these companies have such small profit margins that they cant afford to pay these amounts of money. It is just greed on behalf of the employer that stops them paying a decent wage.

I suspect they want to maintain whatever profit margins they already have... maybe even increase them. The inevitable is a price increase.....

[sandyf]

On 12/15/2022 at 6:42 AM, Scouse123 said:

They can raise it to what the want but up here ' in the sticks '  the Thais agree beforehand how much for labour and pay what they want and if it isn't acceptable they don't get the job.

 

In the big cities and resorts, all this will lead to is Thai owners employing more Cambodians, Laos and Myanmar nationals because they just won't pay these rates and the Thai employers are open about it and say their own people are unreliable and by and large, just not worth the money.

 

I have a couple of older guys that help me up here and are decent men who get the task in hand done and turn up on time, I pay now 500 baht a day plus food and it's worth it to me.

It is this perspective that detracts from rational debate on the issue. The situation is not unlike the "Gig economy" problems in other countries where there is a divided type of employment.

In the last 10 years or so the minimum wage has pushed up the price of hotel accommodation quite substantially and to implement the proposed level would be a serious blow to the tourist industry. If Thailand wished to retain that sector of the economy the problem would need to be addressed from a different angle.

The pandemic however highlighted the dangers of tourist dependency and this may well have been taken into account with Thailand looking to move in a different direction.

[zzaa09]

17 hours ago, OneMoreFarang said:

Why not 450B? Or 670B?

 

It's an election promise and to make it simple for simple minded people just double the current 300B per day.

I guess now all those minimum workers will think that with double the money in their pockets they will be able to afford double the number of things. Or maybe not?

If all the shop attendees and workers and restaurant service will get double, who will pay for that? Obviously things have to get more expensive. And if all supplies and suppliers are more expensive than all products will be more expensive. And then? What is left from the idea to spend all that extra money?

 

IMHO salaries should be paid according to what makes sense. Some people with more skills will earn more money and others with low skills or lazy people will earn less. And then there are obviously all those international companies who think twice if they want to pay double in Thailand or invest somewhere else. Or they hire foreign workers in Thailand who work for less.

 

So why was it promised? Because it makes sense? Or because lots of gullible people will vote for those nice Shinawatras who only want the best for the poor people?

It would be funny if it wouldn't be so sad and cynical.

Yet, isn't that what the ruling elite [from various degrees] have always thrive for? In the best interest and the well being of the good people? ????????

[billd766]

On 12/15/2022 at 5:40 AM, RichardColeman said:

How'd you work that one out ? 

 

Raising it to 'daily' 600 , when current is 300-350 ? 

 

link - The current minimum wage in Thailand ranges between 328 and 354 baht depending on location.

I worked it out fairly easily.

 

600 - 350 = 250.

 

250 / 5 = 50 per day, per year over a 5 year period from 2022 until 2027.

 

Or if you want to be picky it will be 62.5 per day, per year over a 4 year period from 2023 until 2027.

[billd766]

On 12/15/2022 at 6:36 AM, Scouse123 said:

Are you serious?

This is Thailand we are talking about here.

 

On 12/15/2022 at 6:42 AM, Scouse123 said:

They can raise it to what the want but up here ' in the sticks '  the Thais agree beforehand how much for labour and pay what they want and if it isn't acceptable they don't get the job.

 

In the big cities and resorts, all this will lead to is Thai owners employing more Cambodians, Laos and Myanmar nationals because they just won't pay these rates and the Thai employers are open about it and say their own people are unreliable and by and large, just not worth the money.

 

I have a couple of older guys that help me up here and are decent men who get the task in hand done and turn up on time, I pay now 500 baht a day plus food and it's worth it to me.

First you ask me if I am serious, yes I am serious,

 

and then you admit to paying well over the daily rate yourself.

[Gknrd]

Doesn't matter what the elite want at this stage period. In a few years there won't be enough youngsters to push around.  No one to take the jobs unless they pay a good salary. Just a matter of time now.

Thailand is at 1.5 / female. Average to keep things stable is 2.1.  

 

Edited December 16, 2022 by Gknrd

[Bill Dauterive]

Simple economics. Pay more and they spent more. Keep al for yourself and lose potential. old as the bible.

[Bill Dauterive]

14 hours ago, Lorry said:

That was 10 years ago

Nope it isn;t , Still normal Isan wages....

[Scouse123]

1 hour ago, billd766 said:

 

First you ask me if I am serious, yes I am serious,

 

and then you admit to paying well over the daily rate yourself.

Yes,

 

But i am not a Thai employer!

 

They wont pay it

[puchooay]

1 hour ago, Bill Dauterive said:

Nope it isn;t , Still normal Isan wages....

Large companies, like 7/11 ( the topic of the quote you quoted) pay a national wage with the exception of a supplement for Bangkok.

[Bill Dauterive]

On 12/16/2022 at 3:29 PM, puchooay said:

Large companies, like 7/11 ( the topic of the quote you quoted) pay a national wage with the exception of a supplement for Bangkok.

all others still pay 300 to 350 construction pay more for specialist 500 , less for woman. 250.. Sorry it is what it is.

[gomangosteen]

47 minutes ago, Bill Dauterive said:

all others still pay 300 to 350 construction pay more for specialist 500 , less for woman. 250.. Sorry it is what it is.

All?

 

My partner is an accountant for a civil engineering company, costing contracts for highways and bridges; currently 155 staff but this often increases for specific contracts.

 

Current daily rates for non-salary staff are 400 basic and up to 1100 per day for the skilled machine operators - these machines are not cheap to buy, touchscreen computer operations, training with the manufacturer upon purchase eg Wirtgen, Sakai.

 

With individual contracts often 600-800 million baht any enforced wage increase will simply be added in to the costing for each contract tendered for; won't make them any less competitive as same will apply to competing contractors. 

 

And just to add here, one of the more pricey machines, lays double-lane asphalt, its prime operator is a woman, as are several of the other earthworks machine operators. I'm told they're better at the job!

Edited December 20, 2022 by gomangosteen

[puchooay]

5 hours ago, Bill Dauterive said:

all others still pay 300 to 350 construction pay more for specialist 500 , less for woman. 250.. Sorry it is what it is.

Sorry, what is your point? I don't understand the correlation between your post and mine that you quoted.

[Bill Dauterive]

On 12/20/2022 at 11:52 AM, gomangosteen said:

All?

 

My partner is an accountant for a civil engineering company, costing contracts for highways and bridges; currently 155 staff but this often increases for specific contracts.

 

Current daily rates for non-salary staff are 400 basic and up to 1100 per day for the skilled machine operators - these machines are not cheap to buy, touchscreen computer operations, training with the manufacturer upon purchase eg Wirtgen, Sakai.

 

With individual contracts often 600-800 million baht any enforced wage increase will simply be added in to the costing for each contract tendered for; won't make them any less competitive as same will apply to competing contractors. 

 

And just to add here, one of the more pricey machines, lays double-lane asphalt, its prime operator is a woman, as are several of the other earthworks machine operators. I'm told they're better at the job!

I am in contruction of houses mostly and i never paid these wages. Ever. They never asked me too. Amazing Thailand eh. It has been 250 for woman 300-350 for men and 500 for a 'specialist'  for the last 15 yrs with us. Ridiculous. But i can not afford higher wages with the low prices the want to pay for the houses nowadays and the hard times getting mortgages.. It's way too many projects atm so yeah. Consider even stopping all together. Because between the low wages BUT the high prices of materials and the low prices of house. It is not worth the investment anymore. Can get bette R.O.I. if i do not emply anybody and move on to other biz. Sad but true. I want to pay them at least 1000 a day, that seems fair. But not possible . Jobs will be lost. I am better here when only taking care of myself. Make more money and take less risks. A bad balance.

Edited December 22, 2022 by Bill Dauterive

[Bill Dauterive]

On 12/20/2022 at 4:29 PM, puchooay said:

Sorry, what is your point? I don't understand the correlation between your post and mine that you quoted.

So when you quote about wages and i do you see no correlation. Ok. Maybe it's you.

[Longwood50]

If raising minimum wage had no negative effects, why only 600 baht, why not 1,000, 5,000, 10,000 baht per day.  

A "job" not the person is worth only so much per day.  You pay someone to cut your lawn. I don't care how good that person is, or how much they need the additional money you are only willing to pay so much to have your lawn cut.

With Thai businesses, labor is a cost, not any different than rent, taxes, insurances, electric, or water.  The employer has to add up what his/her costs are and then add to those costs their profit for providing their product of services.  So raising the minimum wage helps those who would get a raise and hurts those who will be buying those products and services.  It is a zero sum game. 

The other thing is that Thailand does not live in a bubble.  Any product or service that is available from other countries is a competitor.  So if rubber, rice, office machine parts, automobiles that Thailand is currently exporting have to go up in price, it becomes less competitive and sells less.  That reduces the jobs in Thailand.  

You can not legislate prosperity into existence.  What the necessity of raising the minimum wage really says is that Thailand has too many people with zero or minimal skills that can't command hire pay.  The real answer is to provide more jobs in occupations that require hire skill levels and provide more training and education to the Thai people to allow them to take advantage of those jobs. 

This does not happen overnight.  Look at China.  They were once one of the poorest countries economically with "cheap Chinese labor"  That has been changing for decades as the Chinese government targeted industries such as pharmaceuticals, automobiles, chemicals, aircraft, machine tools, and cell phones.  The Chinese workers in those skilled trades are no longer low wage workers.  Tim Cook of Apple is quoted as saying they are in China and the days of cheap Chinese labor for Apple are gone.  They continue in China not because it is cheap but because they have the supply of workers with the higher skill set needed to make Apple products. 

Raising the minimum wage here in Thailand will increase the incentive for businesses to automate and reduce workers.  As said, if there were no negatives to doing so make it 10,000 baht a day and let everyone live not just a subsistence life but one with some luxuries.