Classified documents from Biden’s time as VP discovered in private office

[riclag]

19 hours ago, riclag said:

So your right about more national security violations. bidens lawyers were exposed to one , just one,according to Sauber and PBSnews.What a dumpster fire this is! bidens handlers made a huge miscalculation !
“Sauber said in a statement Saturday that Biden’s personal lawyers, who did not have security clearances, stopped their search after finding the first page on Wednesday evening. Sauber found the remaining material Thursday, as he was facilitating their retrieval by the Department of Justice”.

https://www.pbs.org/newshour/politics/lawyers-found-more-classified-documents-at-bidens-home-than-previously-stated

Biden uses his lawyers to find his classified docs to shield from the Fbi.

 

Using bidens lawyers instead of fbi adds protection to bidens in case of attorney client privilege!

“The key is that unlike fbi agents ,these lawyers are not acting on behalf of the public interest but for the president’s personal interests”.

 

But  the initial exposure at the PTT by uncleared biden lawyers is still considered gross mishandling of classified information .

 

Because of the way Sauber found additional documents after the non security clearance biden lawyers exposed themselves to the first document ,at bidens house, it could indicate the docs could of been removed from the folder and stored without a cover.

“If they were removed at Biden’s residence, he would be the chief suspect in such use.

It would utterly destroy the inadvertence” defense”.

https://nypost.com/2023/01/15/biden-uses-his-lawyers-to-find-his-classified-docs

To the legal laymen and novices like many and including yours truly ,Thank goodness for experts like 

Johnathan Turley who knows all the tricks and sometimes deceitful ways government lawyers and bureaucrats use to escape responsibility imop

 

 

[Bkk Brian]

23 minutes ago, riclag said:

Biden uses his lawyers to find his classified docs to shield from the Fbi.

 

Using bidens lawyers instead of fbi adds protection to bidens in case of attorney client privilege!

“The key is that unlike fbi agents ,these lawyers are not acting on behalf of the public interest but for the president’s personal interests”.

 

But  the initial exposure at the PTT by uncleared biden lawyers is still considered gross mishandling of classified information .

 

Because of the way Sauber found additional documents after the non security clearance biden lawyers exposed themselves to the first document ,at bidens house, it could indicate the docs could of been removed from the folder and stored without a cover.

“If they were removed at Biden’s residence, he would be the chief suspect in such use.

It would utterly destroy the inadvertence” defense”.

https://nypost.com/2023/01/15/biden-uses-his-lawyers-to-find-his-classified-docs

To the legal laymen and novices like many and including yours truly ,Thank goodness for experts like 

Johnathan Turley who knows all the tricks and sometimes deceitful ways government lawyers and bureaucrats use to escape responsibility imop

 

 

But that's no different to Dec last month when Trump’s lawyers found more documents  after searching four locations separate to MAL. The federal judge ordered his legal team to conduct these searches to make sure all documents marked classified had been returned to the government.

 

Why are you focusing on this, why should Biden be treated differently? I never saw any outcry from the dems or media when that occurred.

[ozimoron]

4 hours ago, EVENKEEL said:

Which scenario would you rather have.....intentional removal or unintentional removal? One scenario Biden is breaking procedure and the other Biden is breaking procedure and a <deleted>. dumb donkey

You'd need to establish that Biden "removed" anything. "Returned" might be the word you're looking for. Or failure to do so.

[candide]

1 hour ago, riclag said:

Biden uses his lawyers to find his classified docs to shield from the Fbi.

 

Using bidens lawyers instead of fbi adds protection to bidens in case of attorney client privilege!

“The key is that unlike fbi agents ,these lawyers are not acting on behalf of the public interest but for the president’s personal interests”.

 

But  the initial exposure at the PTT by uncleared biden lawyers is still considered gross mishandling of classified information .

 

Because of the way Sauber found additional documents after the non security clearance biden lawyers exposed themselves to the first document ,at bidens house, it could indicate the docs could of been removed from the folder and stored without a cover.

“If they were removed at Biden’s residence, he would be the chief suspect in such use.

It would utterly destroy the inadvertence” defense”.

https://nypost.com/2023/01/15/biden-uses-his-lawyers-to-find-his-classified-docs

To the legal laymen and novices like many and including yours truly ,Thank goodness for experts like 

Johnathan Turley who knows all the tricks and sometimes deceitful ways government lawyers and bureaucrats use to escape responsibility imop

 

 

We didn't hear you complain when Trumps lawyers searched other locations than MAL. Actually, the procedure followed is more stringent than in the case of Trumps lawyer. Whenever Biden's lawyers see a classified document, they stop the search, leave it as it is, and call Sauber who is accredited to access classified documents. No such procedure in the case of Trumps lawyers.

 

As BkkBrian mentioned, Trump lawyers have been ordered by a federal judge to search other locations than MAL. Federal judges usually don't order people to do something illegal, right?

 

So if a federal judge orders lawyers to search places to find classified documents, we can logically conclude than it is not illegal for lawyers to search for classified documents, whether it is for Trump or for Biden.

[Scott]

On 1/15/2023 at 3:22 PM, thaibeachlovers said:

Someone knew there were classified documents in Biden's possession that should not have been there. All the but but buts in the world can't change that.

That or those person(s) need to be found.

 

There is no indication that the National Archives was aware of Biden's documents. 

That, IMO is the biggest scandal in this whole affair. WHY did they apparently not know? It's their job to know where all the classified documents are. Someone has failed in that job.

If they are that incompetent, there could be many more classified documents elsewhere that are unknown about.

No, it is not their job to know where all classified documents are.  They are not a policing agency.  They are, among other things, a storage facility and a repository for records. 

 

[Hanaguma]

How about, to save time and typing, we just use a new acronym- NABAT.. Not As Bad As Trump.

 

Might save some stress for the more vituperous of people here, and possibly prevent tendonitis of the fingers.

 

As for the documents, just a few simple questions need to be answered before devolving into mindless speculation. 

 

1. Who put the documents where they were discovered and when?

2. Who had access to them since?

3. Did anyone know of their location since they were placed there?

 

[Scott]

Posts make unsubstantiated claims along with replies as well as those using childish names for a political party have been removed.  Continue and a suspension will be forthcoming. 

 

[heybruce]

1 hour ago, Hanaguma said:

How about, to save time and typing, we just use a new acronym- NABAT.. Not As Bad As Trump.

 

Might save some stress for the more vituperous of people here, and possibly prevent tendonitis of the fingers.

 

As for the documents, just a few simple questions need to be answered before devolving into mindless speculation. 

 

1. Who put the documents where they were discovered and when?

2. Who had access to them since?

3. Did anyone know of their location since they were placed there?

 

Questions that should be answered in every security investigation of unsecured classified.

[Hanaguma]

21 minutes ago, heybruce said:

Questions that should be answered in every security investigation of unsecured classified.

Absolutelly.

 

I am also curious if the same happened with other, previous presidents- Obama, Bush, etc.   

[Bkk Brian]

The latest demands from the Republicans is for the visitor logs from Biden's Delaware home........lol

 

When will they realize just how hypocritical their rants are and how ignorant they are to procedure and applicable laws.

 

VP's, ex VP's, Presidents or ex Presidents don't have visitor logs in their private residence. Even Mar-a-Lago has no visitor logs.

 

White House says there are no visitor logs for Biden's home

The White House has said that there are no visitor logs available for President Joe Biden's private home.

Republicans have demanded to see the logs to his Delaware home after classified files were discovered there.

https://www.bbc.com/news/world-us-canada-64293743

 

"The White House does publicly release a visitors log on its website - a practice brought in during the Obama administration.

It was paused during the Trump presidency and reinstated when Mr Biden took office."

 

 

[JonnyF]

The polt thickens. The irony/hypocrisy is thick on this one. Biden has some nerve. 

 

https://www.bbc.com/news/world-us-canada-64290971

 

 

As so often is the case with The Left, they are what they accuse you of being.

[xylophone]

14 minutes ago, SunnyinBangrak said:

 Nobody is accusing Trump of selling influence to Americas enemies and the 6 years of hatefull persecution and hoaxes concocted against the guy we know he's clean as a whistle

"we know he's clean as a whistle" 

That has to be the laugh of the century, but no doubt these folk believe it – – absolutely unbelievable. Just where have these folks been hiding all these years??

[SunnyinBangrak]

3 minutes ago, xylophone said:

"we know he's clean as a whistle" 

That has to be the laugh of the century, but no doubt these folk believe it – – absolutely unbelievable. Just where have these folks been hiding all these years??

After 6 years of persecution what crimes has the guy been convicted of? I remember you guys accusing him of all sorts of stuff (treason, sex crimes, cheating in an election by colluding with Russia hoax, manslaughter of half a million cuz covid etc) without evidence leading up to the recent disaster where the left pinned all hopes of finally nailing him for having classified documents at home and then.......

[Rimmer]

A post containing unattributed content and a reply has been removed

[thaibeachlovers]

21 hours ago, billd766 said:

Having read the thread from the beginning I have yet to see anyone proving that President Biden personally removed the documents and hid them.

 

I have seem a lot of posts alleging that it was him or that he ordered staffers to do this for him.

 

IMHO what is missing is that little old word that means so much legally.

 

Proof that will stand up in a court of law.

 

 

 

Obviously someone knows that they had classified documents and that they should not, unless declassified. However, IMO if they were declassified Biden would have said so by now, ergo still classified.

Given it was his garage they were found in, unless he can prove someone else put them there, a reasonable supposition can be made that he either put them there himself, or ordered someone else to.

If he didn't put them there, and no one else can be found that did, surely there is some sort of record of who took them in the first place. If that isn't known, the only alternative is that person or persons unknown took classified documents for an unknown reason ( without any record of doing so ) and put them in Biden's garage without Biden's knowledge.

I'm pretty certain that if it were Trump's garage that the documents were found in it would be claimed by certain posters on this forum that they were put there by Trump himself. I'm amazed that those posters still try and excuse Biden for somewhat spurious reasons.

[Chomper Higgot]

14 hours ago, riclag said:

Biden uses his lawyers to find his classified docs to shield from the Fbi.

 

Using bidens lawyers instead of fbi adds protection to bidens in case of attorney client privilege!

“The key is that unlike fbi agents ,these lawyers are not acting on behalf of the public interest but for the president’s personal interests”.

 

But  the initial exposure at the PTT by uncleared biden lawyers is still considered gross mishandling of classified information .

 

Because of the way Sauber found additional documents after the non security clearance biden lawyers exposed themselves to the first document ,at bidens house, it could indicate the docs could of been removed from the folder and stored without a cover.

“If they were removed at Biden’s residence, he would be the chief suspect in such use.

It would utterly destroy the inadvertence” defense”.

https://nypost.com/2023/01/15/biden-uses-his-lawyers-to-find-his-classified-docs

To the legal laymen and novices like many and including yours truly ,Thank goodness for experts like 

Johnathan Turley who knows all the tricks and sometimes deceitful ways government lawyers and bureaucrats use to escape responsibility imop

 

 

My guess is Biden is a bit too busy to spend time sorting through boxes of documents and closing up offices he no longer uses.

 

 

[SunnyinBangrak]

42 minutes ago, Chomper Higgot said:

My guess is Biden is a bit too busy to spend time sorting through boxes of documents and closing up offices he no longer uses.

 

 

That is a particularly disingenuous way of framing biden being found in possession of several stashes of classified documents in the Wilmington house next to his corvette(that he has been photographed recently using) and in other rooms.

[Chomper Higgot]

3 minutes ago, SunnyinBangrak said:

That is a particularly disingenuous way of framing biden being found in possession of several stashes of classified documents in the Wilmington house next to his corvette(that he has been photographed recently using) and in other rooms.

He’s the President, he’s a busy man.

[xylophone]

9 minutes ago, Chomper Higgot said:

He’s the President, he’s a busy man.

And of course he is probably ordering burgers and cokes, like his predecessor, and that takes up time!!!!!!

[ozimoron]

1 hour ago, thaibeachlovers said:

Obviously someone knows that they had classified documents and that they should not, unless declassified. However, IMO if they were declassified Biden would have said so by now, ergo still classified.

Given it was his garage they were found in, unless he can prove someone else put them there, a reasonable supposition can be made that he either put them there himself, or ordered someone else to.

If he didn't put them there, and no one else can be found that did, surely there is some sort of record of who took them in the first place. If that isn't known, the only alternative is that person or persons unknown took classified documents for an unknown reason ( without any record of doing so ) and put them in Biden's garage without Biden's knowledge.

I'm pretty certain that if it were Trump's garage that the documents were found in it would be claimed by certain posters on this forum that they were put there by Trump himself. I'm amazed that those posters still try and excuse Biden for somewhat spurious reasons.

They probably aren't secret and so aren't tracked. "Obviously someone knows" is a long bow to stretch. They were more likely used and left in the office before ultimately being packed. There was obviously no attempt made at any time to keep them. National Archives has not tracked those documents so they aren't the nuclear codes.

[metisdead]

Some off topic posts and replies have been removed.

[Bkk Brian]

2 hours ago, SunnyinBangrak said:

After 6 years of persecution what crimes has the guy been convicted of? I remember you guys accusing him of all sorts of stuff (treason, sex crimes, cheating in an election by colluding with Russia hoax, manslaughter of half a million cuz covid etc) without evidence leading up to the recent disaster where the left pinned all hopes of finally nailing him for having classified documents at home and then.......

Well, you asked and were given plenty of examples but they got deleted, so now you can live in your own echo chamber.

[billd766]

2 hours ago, thaibeachlovers said:

Obviously someone knows that they had classified documents and that they should not, unless declassified. However, IMO if they were declassified Biden would have said so by now, ergo still classified.

Given it was his garage they were found in, unless he can prove someone else put them there, a reasonable supposition can be made that he either put them there himself, or ordered someone else to.

If he didn't put them there, and no one else can be found that did, surely there is some sort of record of who took them in the first place. If that isn't known, the only alternative is that person or persons unknown took classified documents for an unknown reason ( without any record of doing so ) and put them in Biden's garage without Biden's knowledge.

I'm pretty certain that if it were Trump's garage that the documents were found in it would be claimed by certain posters on this forum that they were put there by Trump himself. I'm amazed that those posters still try and excuse Biden for somewhat spurious reasons.

I don't think That President Biden put them there himself, and I am certain that Trump did not, nor did any of his people.

 

Until the documents are checked by the records office I don't think that anyone knows what they contain.

 

When that is known, then there will be an approximate date after which it may be able, together with the contents to get a group of staffers names, including President Biden, who would have been in the position to have dealt with them.

[thaibeachlovers]

36 minutes ago, billd766 said:

I don't think That President Biden put them there himself, and I am certain that Trump did not, nor did any of his people.

 

Until the documents are checked by the records office I don't think that anyone knows what they contain.

 

When that is known, then there will be an approximate date after which it may be able, together with the contents to get a group of staffers names, including President Biden, who would have been in the position to have dealt with them.

IMO it's an extremely sloppy way of dealing with classified documents. Is the US government so inefficient that they don't know who has classified documents? If any old so and so can get and keep them and leave them lying around for 6 years, what is the point of classifying them at all?

 

A good starting point would be to find out who among Biden's staff had clearance to access them.

[ozimoron]

9 minutes ago, thaibeachlovers said:

IMO it's an extremely sloppy way of dealing with classified documents. Is the US government so inefficient that they don't know who has classified documents? If any old so and so can get and keep them and leave them lying around for 6 years, what is the point of classifying them at all?

 

A good starting point would be to find out who among Biden's staff had clearance to access them.

I think it's going to be a case of all White House documents are classified until they are declassified, by default.

 

The White House and its staff are obligated to return all government records covered under the Presidential Records Act, which includes all classified documents. For the majority of classified documents, there is no enforcement mechanism to ensure they get returned. It essentially boils down to an honor system. Only the most highly sensitive documents operate under a check-out, check-in system, and that represents only a small percentage of all classified documents.

 

It is possible that thousands of government employees have the ability to search, print, and download classified documents from the government system.

 

https://abcnews.go.com/Politics/questions-answered-handling-classified-documents/story?id=96424810

[billd766]

4 hours ago, thaibeachlovers said:

IMO it's an extremely sloppy way of dealing with classified documents. Is the US government so inefficient that they don't know who has classified documents? If any old so and so can get and keep them and leave them lying around for 6 years, what is the point of classifying them at all?

 

A good starting point would be to find out who among Biden's staff had clearance to access them.

Having found who had access on Biden's staff and why the documents were not logged out and in again, the next step should be to find out who didn't do the job properly at the Records office and plug that loophole.

[Credo]

The first thing that needs to be acknowledged is that both Biden and Trump are ultimately responsible for how their administrations handled classified documents.   

 

I suspect that the documents that Biden has may not have been in the chain-of-command where they are followed carefully.  That is most likely part of why they went undiscovered for such a long time.   

 

A fair number of documents are classified simply as a method to keep them out of the hands of the journalists or the public and protect them from the Freedom of Information Act.   That's a practice that should be reviewed.   

 

[heybruce]

11 hours ago, thaibeachlovers said:

IMO it's an extremely sloppy way of dealing with classified documents. Is the US government so inefficient that they don't know who has classified documents? If any old so and so can get and keep them and leave them lying around for 6 years, what is the point of classifying them at all?

 

A good starting point would be to find out who among Biden's staff had clearance to access them.

Classified in the military is handled much more carefully.  I assume that is the case for classified in other parts of the government made up of career professionals.  However it appears that classified in the White House is handled carelessly.  I assume that is because no one feels they have the power to tell elected officials and their chosen staff that they have to follow the rules or accept the consequences. 

[Pattaya Spotter]

MORE documents found in FBI search of Mr. Biden's residence...how many are we up to now? It seems like Joe was keeping an entire private library of classified government documents for his own nefarious uses! Let's just hope both the front and garage doors of the house were locked ???? 

 

 

[candide]

6 hours ago, Pattaya Spotter said:

MORE documents found in FBI search of Mr. Biden's residence...how many are we up to now? It seems like Joe was keeping an entire private library of classified government documents for his own nefarious uses! Let's just hope both the front and garage doors of the house were locked ???? 

 

 

Right! Six documents! So the total number of documents found is what? 26?

 

Note the full-cooperation demonstrated (very different from the behaviour of who shall not be named):

 

"The FBI found more classified documents at the Wilmington, Delaware, home of President Joe Biden during a consensual search Friday that lasted nearly 13 hours, his personal lawyer and a prosecutor said Saturday evening"

https://www.cnbc.com/2023/01/21/search-of-bidens-home-by-doj-finds-6-more-classified-documents.html