UK Tory Chairman Nadhim Zahawi , tax avoidance or evasion ?

[superal]

When is tax evasion legal or illegal ? When it is compiled by an accountant is it legal ? Accountants call it financial planning & minimising tax payments , often using loopholes .  Indeed accountants grow wealthy on the back of minimising a companies or individuals taxes which enhances their reputation and makes them sought after if successful . Accountants are aware of where to move money be it offshore or investment trusts etc. Then there are those that use umbrella companies to avoid high income tax not to mention the cash in hand tradesmen quotes . 

    So is it a Labour witch- hunt on Zahawi whilst trying to accrue brownie points for the next general election ? Will Zahawi survive his job or be sacked by Sunak ?

[Slip]

Tax evasion is always illegal.  What the accountants should be doing is tax avoidance- legal.  I don't think it's a witch hunt.  The guy is as much a crook as the rest of the government imo.

[superal]

34 minutes ago, Slip said:

Tax evasion is always illegal.  What the accountants should be doing is tax avoidance- legal.  I don't think it's a witch hunt.  The guy is as much a crook as the rest of the government imo.

Tax avoidance seems to be a grey area but if supported by a well known accountant to the tax collector , it is often successful . 

[Andrew65]

4 hours ago, superal said:

Tax avoidance seems to be a grey area but if supported by a well known accountant to the tax collector , it is often successful . 

Evasion is illegal, avoidance is legal, it's knowing the difference between the two. Avoidance could also be called "Mitigating one's tax liability", legally reducing how much tax you pay.

[roquefort]

There's a famous court judgement which says everyone has the right to arrange their affairs so as to pay the least amount of tax within the law. In it's simplest form, putting money in an ISA is tax avoidance.

 

That's why social justice warriors whingeing about people like Zahawi not paying "the right amount" of tax is just hypocrisy. It's up to each person's individual choices, and if what he did was within the law there's absolutely nothing to criticise him for. If he didn't follow the law.....that's another matter.

[allanos]

You are watching the "politics of envy" playing out.

 

No labourite likes to see any moderately wealthy

person, self-made (in Zahawi's case), or otherwise.

It kind of goes against the grain of the Socialist/

Communist doctrine. I believe Labour still sing 

"The Red Flag" at party meetings, which, however,

is teeming with "champagne socialists"!

 

There is often a very fine line between tax evasion

and tax avoidance. The former is illegal. What seems

to irk Labour more is the quantum of the tax bill,

reportedly 4.8m, that Zahawi settled.

 

Just like the "Partygate" saga which Labour used to

bring down Johnson, so what they are trying to do

to Zahawi is from the same play book. It's petty 

politics, using this case to whip the Tories with, and

may have a similar outcome to that of Johnson's.

 

 

[Thingamabob]

It remains to be seen. Most complex tax returns involve a great deal of dialogue with the authorities before they are agreed.

 

[cleopatra2]

2 hours ago, roquefort said:

There's a famous court judgement which says everyone has the right to arrange their affairs so as to pay the least amount of tax within the law. In it's simplest form, putting money in an ISA is tax avoidance.

 

That's why social justice warriors whingeing about people like Zahawi not paying "the right amount" of tax is just hypocrisy. It's up to each person's individual choices, and if what he did was within the law there's absolutely nothing to criticise him for. If he didn't follow the law.....that's another matter.

The regime that Zahawi used meant the amount was always taxable, once it had been repatriated.

Apart from the conflict of being in charge of the Treasury and owing money. Zahawi gave different public statements to justify the error.

At one point claiming it was a smear and his lawyers sending out legal letters in an attempt to keep out of the public domain.

[roquefort]

58 minutes ago, cleopatra2 said:

Apart from the conflict of being in charge of the Treasury and owing money. Zahawi gave different public statements to justify the error.

At one point claiming it was a smear and his lawyers sending out legal letters in an attempt to keep out of the public domain.

Agreed, it's typical political chicanery that's deserving of criticism. Whether or not he made a genuine mistake on his tax returns, as he claims, is almost of secondary importance.

[Purdey]

If it is legal then do it. Even the government helped in Thailand with RMF and LTF tax saving investments, though they are cutting back these days. But insurance, give money to mum and dad as dependents and save tax legally. 

[mrfill]

3 hours ago, allanos said:

You are watching the "politics of envy" playing out.

 

No labourite likes to see any moderately wealthy

person, self-made (in Zahawi's case), or otherwise.

It kind of goes against the grain of the Socialist/

Communist doctrine. I believe Labour still sing 

"The Red Flag" at party meetings, which, however,

is teeming with "champagne socialists"!

 

There is often a very fine line between tax evasion

and tax avoidance. The former is illegal. What seems

to irk Labour more is the quantum of the tax bill,

reportedly 4.8m, that Zahawi settled.

 

Just like the "Partygate" saga which Labour used to

bring down Johnson, so what they are trying to do

to Zahawi is from the same play book. It's petty 

politics, using this case to whip the Tories with, and

may have a similar outcome to that of Johnson's.

 

 

It was not partygate that brought down Johnson. It was the resignation of over 50 of his own ministers because of his protection of a sex pest (Chris Pincher) and the insistence that they should promote his lies, even when those lies had suddenly changed. And the leaders of the resignations were Sajid Javed (then Health Secretary) and Rishi Sunak (then Chancellor of the Exchequer). That led to the supremely wise neo-fascist tories then electing Liz Truss - the worst PM ever and who, with the help of an equally hopeless Chancellor, blew a £30bn hole in the economy which everyone is still paying for.

 

In the case of Zahawi, he categorically stated that he was not under investigation when he was appointed Chancellor (by Johnson) and threatened to sue investigative reporters. That was, at the very least, a huge stretch of the imagination. His appointment seems to have been totally against the ministerial code and, as a result of that, his case has been referred to the (recently appointed) Ethics advisor by the PM.

 

 

[Aussieroaming]

If he wasn't born in the UK then charge him for a crime and deport him after his sentence. 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[Flink]

11 hours ago, Slip said:

Tax evasion is always illegal.  What the accountants should be doing is tax avoidance- legal.  I don't think it's a witch hunt.  The guy is as much a crook as the rest of the government imo.

True, forgetting to pay a sixty quid parking fine I can believe, but netting 27 million, as Chancellor, and forgetting to pay tax on it? Nah, that boat don't float! Although I think that by now (after much badgering from the opposition party and the public) going after Zahawi, PM Sunak is extracting the urine somewhat, considering his wife's Non-Dom status and all the money she got from the lockdown fund.

[lungbing]

23 minutes ago, Aussieroaming said:

If he wasn't born in the UK then charge him for a crime and deport him after his sentence. 

 

Can we do that to  all criminals not born in the UK, or only the ones you don't approve of?

 

 

 

 

 

[Chomper Higgot]

On 1/26/2023 at 6:56 AM, roquefort said:

There's a famous court judgement which says everyone has the right to arrange their affairs so as to pay the least amount of tax within the law. In it's simplest form, putting money in an ISA is tax avoidance.

 

That's why social justice warriors whingeing about people like Zahawi not paying "the right amount" of tax is just hypocrisy. It's up to each person's individual choices, and if what he did was within the law there's absolutely nothing to criticise him for. If he didn't follow the law.....that's another matter.

There are numerous court judgements, they are handed down every working day, tge basic principle is an act is or is not illegal.

 

Zahawi was handed a 30% penalty.

 

There are no penalties payable if one’s tax return is honest and compliant to the law.

 

Zahawi was caught having evaded taxes.

 

He’s now facing questions regarding the source of tens of millions of pounds funneled to his wife’s businesses.

 

He’s a gem of a Tory.

[Chomper Higgot]

On 1/26/2023 at 10:54 AM, roquefort said:

Agreed, it's typical political chicanery that's deserving of criticism. Whether or not he made a genuine mistake on his tax returns, as he claims, is almost of secondary importance.

I believe it more correct to say rightwingers sticking up for this tax evader are participating in ‘political chicanery’.

 

 

[superal]

6 hours ago, Chomper Higgot said:

There are numerous court judgements, they are handed down every working day, tge basic principle is an act is or is not illegal.

 

Zahawi was handed a 30% penalty.

 

There are no penalties payable if one’s tax return is honest and compliant to the law.

 

Zahawi was caught having evaded taxes.

 

He’s now facing questions regarding the source of tens of millions of pounds funneled to his wife’s businesses.

 

He’s a gem of a Tory.

Evaded taxes ? There is an ongoing enquiry into his tax affairs that will reveal the nature of his failings to comply with HMRC tax rules even though he has settled with a penalty . So will the outcome be avoidance , evasion or carelessness ? 

At the moment you have jumped the gun with saying " evaded taxes " 

[cleopatra2]

3 hours ago, superal said:

Evaded taxes ? There is an ongoing enquiry into his tax affairs that will reveal the nature of his failings to comply with HMRC tax rules even though he has settled with a penalty . So will the outcome be avoidance , evasion or carelessness ? 

At the moment you have jumped the gun with saying " evaded taxes " 

I thought the tax investigation had been completed with payments made and the ongoing enquiry concerns any breach of the ministerial code.

[Chomper Higgot]

3 hours ago, superal said:

Evaded taxes ? There is an ongoing enquiry into his tax affairs that will reveal the nature of his failings to comply with HMRC tax rules even though he has settled with a penalty . So will the outcome be avoidance , evasion or carelessness ? 

At the moment you have jumped the gun with saying " evaded taxes " 

He was compelled to pay a penalty, 

 

What does the head of HMRC have to say about penalties?:

 

 

“There are no penalties for innocent errors in your tax affairs,” 

 

 

https://amp.theguardian.com/politics/2023/jan/26/hmrc-boss-tells-mps-innocent-errors-dont-attract-penalties-after-nadhim-zahawi-tax-row

[superal]

32 minutes ago, cleopatra2 said:

I thought the tax investigation had been completed with payments made and the ongoing enquiry concerns any breach of the ministerial code.

Indeed , a breach of the ministerial code would include tax evasion , if it can be proved that it was evasion and not carelessness or avoidance

[cleopatra2]

28 minutes ago, superal said:

Indeed , a breach of the ministerial code would include tax evasion , if it can be proved that it was evasion and not carelessness or avoidance

The ministerial investigation will not make such a  judgement of avoidance, evasion or carelessness. 

According to Statements made it was carelessness.

What this means is Zahawi acted in a way no prudent or responsible person in a similar situation would have. 

 

 

Edit AfaiK the investigation is looking at if the failure to declare the penalty is a ministerial code breach.

 

 

[superal]

2 hours ago, cleopatra2 said:

The ministerial investigation will not make such a  judgement of avoidance, evasion or carelessness. 

According to Statements made it was carelessness.

What this means is Zahawi acted in a way no prudent or responsible person in a similar situation would have. 

 

 

Edit AfaiK the investigation is looking at if the failure to declare the penalty is a ministerial code breach.

 

 

The code is ambiguous and open to interpretations , yet the final decision is given by the Prime minister who is a good pal of Zahawi . IMO Sunaks wife's non domicile tax case was more out of order than Zahawi's .  

[cleopatra2]

1 hour ago, superal said:

The code is ambiguous and open to interpretations , yet the final decision is given by the Prime minister who is a good pal of Zahawi . IMO Sunaks wife's non domicile tax case was more out of order than Zahawi's .  

The Non-Domicile was within the law. It is more of a political point of tension.

Zahawi tax issue as operated was outside what the law permitted.

[Chomper Higgot]

At last Sunak grows a set, stops hiding behind ‘due process’ and fires Zahawi.

 

https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2023/jan/29/nadhim-zahawi-sacked-tory-party-chair-tax-affairs-rishi-sunak

[Chomper Higgot]

Apropos removal of this tax evading breached of the ministerial code.

 

Thank you Dan Neidle.

 

A man that refused to be intimidated by Zahawi’s threats of legal action to shut him up for telling the truth.