"It's got nothing to do with Brexit"!

[Social Media]

 

[JayClay]

"Prime Minister Rishi Sunak says inflation has been mainly caused by high energy prices"

 

Indeed inflation in the UK is higher than anywhere in Europe. And UK energy prices are double that of other countries in Europe.

 

So, Rishieee.... Why exactly *are* energy prices in the UK so high?

 

Ah yes because you wouldn't implement a proper windfall tax because that's not the tory way. Having the rich subsidsie the poor, although the basis of any functional economic model, makes them sick to the stomach.

 

[Mac Mickmanus]

1 hour ago, JayClay said:

 

 

Indeed inflation in the UK is higher than anywhere in Europe.

 

U.K inflation rate 10.5 %

Italy inflation rate 12.3 %

Netherlands inflation rate 11 %

Hungary inflation rate 25 %

[JayClay]

5 hours ago, Mac Mickmanus said:

U.K inflation rate 10.5 %

Italy inflation rate 12.3 %

Netherlands inflation rate 11 %

Hungary inflation rate 25 %

Do you have a source for those numbers?

[Salerno]

9 minutes ago, JayClay said:

Do you have a source for those numbers?

https://www.statista.com/statistics/225698/monthly-inflation-rate-in-eu-countries/#:~:text=As of December 2022%2C the,the EU during this month.

[Mac Mickmanus]

12 minutes ago, JayClay said:

Do you have a source for those numbers?

Please , just do a web search , type in  "E.U inflation figures" 

[JayClay]

9 minutes ago, Salerno said:

https://www.statista.com/statistics/225698/monthly-inflation-rate-in-eu-countries/#:~:text=As of December 2022%2C the,the EU during this month.

Fair enough, I stand corrected. It does seem that the UK is doing marginally better than Italy and Hungary, and actually a lot better than certain other countries. It's still the highest in the G7.

[JonnyF]

33 minutes ago, JayClay said:

Fair enough, I stand corrected. It does seem that the UK is doing marginally better than Italy and Hungary, and actually a lot better than certain other countries. It's still the highest in the G7.

Be that as it may, the fact that several EU countries have higher inflation than Britain proves that Brexit is not the cause of the high inflation. 

[JayClay]

1 hour ago, JonnyF said:

Be that as it may, the fact that several EU countries have higher inflation than Britain proves that Brexit is not the cause of the high inflation. 

Yep. Inflation is caused by the Tories other screwed up policies, not Brexit.

 

Brexit has caused many issues for the UK economy but maybe inflation isn't one of them.

 

Lesson learned; don't make comments on political posts when half cut at 2 in the morning ????

[RayC]

I'd give Sunak the benefit of the doubt. It was a spur of the moment reaction. I doubt that he actually believes what he said.

 

It's incorrect and overly simplistic to say that because Spain currently has lower inflation than the UK, then Brexit is to blame. Equally, the fact that several EU countries currently have a higher inflation rate than the UK does not prove that Brexit is irrelevant. 

 

Brexit has almost certainly had some effect on both the UK's inflation rate and, to varying degrees, those of the individual EU member states. It was also the one component of the inflation 'mix' that was avoidable. Unless you are some sort of economic sadomasochist, there doesn't seem to be any economic justification for Brexit.

 

[youreavinalaff]

3 hours ago, RayC said:

I'd give Sunak the benefit of the doubt. It was a spur of the moment reaction. I doubt that he actually believes what he said.

 

It's incorrect and overly simplistic to say that because Spain currently has lower inflation than the UK, then Brexit is to blame. Equally, the fact that several EU countries currently have a higher inflation rate than the UK does not prove that Brexit is irrelevant. 

 

Brexit has almost certainly had some effect on both the UK's inflation rate and, to varying degrees, those of the individual EU member states. It was also the one component of the inflation 'mix' that was avoidable. Unless you are some sort of economic sadomasochist, there doesn't seem to be any economic justification for Brexit.

 

Some good points.

 

The issue with Brexit, through no fault of anyone, was the timing.

 

Soon after Brexit the biggest health issue for over a century occurred. Worldwide economies were struck down. Factories closed, output down, governments paying out billions to help the public but collecting minimal tax back, retail sales collapsing......everyone gets the point.

 

Then the war in Ukraine and the energy crisis caused by it.

 

Had there been a clean run of a few years following Brexit we would have had a clear view of the effects. As we didn't, we don't. Brexiteers and Renainers can argue until they are blue in the face but, at the end of the day, nothing can be proved either way.

 

[Chomper Higgot]

6 hours ago, JonnyF said:

Be that as it may, the fact that several EU countries have higher inflation than Britain proves that Brexit is not the cause of the high inflation. 

No it doesn’t.

 

It demonstrates high interest rates, it doesn’t demonstrate the cause.

 

By example, Germany was far more impacted by the war in the UK than was the Ukraine but has lower inflation than the UK.

 

There are multiple factors impacting inflation, BREXIT is one, denying this is facile.

 

[edit: Correction of ‘war in UK to war in Ukrainian].

 

Edited February 2, 2023 by Chomper Higgot

[JonnyF]

Just now, Chomper Higgot said:

No it doesn’t.

 

It demonstrates high interest rates, it doesn’t demonstrate the cause.

 

By example, Germany was far more impacted by the war in the UK than was the UK but has lower inflation than the UK.

 

There are multiple factors impacting inflation, BREXIT is one, denying this is facile.

 

I presume you mean the war in Ukraine, not the UK. Or is that yet more hyperbole?

 

Assuming you meant Ukraine, let's summarize your point. High interest rates in the UK are due to Brexit. High interest rates in EU countries are due to the war in Ukraine and Covid lockdown policies.

 

Got it... ????

[Chomper Higgot]

1 hour ago, youreavinalaff said:

Some good points.

 

The issue with Brexit, through no fault of anyone, was the timing.

 

Soon after Brexit the biggest health issue for over a century occurred. Worldwide economies were struck down. Factories closed, output down, governments paying out billions to help the public but collecting minimal tax back, retail sales collapsing......everyone gets the point.

 

Then the war in Ukraine and the energy crisis caused by it.

 

Had there been a clean run of a few years following Brexit we would have had a clear view of the effects. As we didn't, we don't. Brexiteers and Renainers can argue until they are blue in the face but, at the end of the day, nothing can be proved either way.

 

The issue with BREXIT is the fact that the UK choosing to erecting trade barriers between the UK economy and its most significant trading partner was always going to damage the economy.

COVID and the Russian invasion of Ukraine have masked the impact of BREXIT.

 

The impacts of COVID are receding, economies are adapting to the war in Ukraine, BREXIT remains and continues to damage the UK economy.

[Chomper Higgot]

2 minutes ago, JonnyF said:

I presume you mean the war in Ukraine, not the UK. Or is that yet more hyperbole?

 

Assuming you meant Ukraine, let's summarize your point. High interest rates in the UK are due to Brexit. High interest rates in EU countries are due to the war in Ukraine and Covid lockdown policies.

 

Got it... ????

I’m presuming you didn’t understand this bit of my post:

 

7 minutes ago, Chomper Higgot said:

There are multiple factors impacting inflation, BREXIT is one, denying this is facile.

 

 

Now what was it you were saying about Hyperbole?

[JonnyF]

Just now, Chomper Higgot said:

I’m presuming you didn’t understand this bit of my post:

 

 

Now what was it you were saying about Hyperbole?

What evidence do you have that Brexit is one factor?

 

Given that some other countries (e.g. Italy) that remained in the EU have even higher inflation than the UK, all the evidence points to Brexit not being a factor - since countries that remained and countries that left both have high inflation. 

 

The constant between the 2 countries appears to be Covid and the war in Ukraine.

 

 

[Chomper Higgot]

2 minutes ago, JonnyF said:

What evidence do you have that Brexit is one factor?

 

Given that some other countries (e.g. Italy) that remained in the EU have even higher inflation than the UK, all the evidence points to Brexit not being a factor - since countries that remained and countries that left both have high inflation. 

 

The constant between the 2 countries appears to be Covid and the war in Ukraine.

 

 

Here you go:

 

https://www.lse.ac.uk/News/Latest-news-from-LSE/2022/l-December-22/By-the-end-of-2021-Brexit-had-already-cost-UK-households-a-total-of-5.8-billion-in-higher-food-bills-–-new-LSE-research

[RayC]

2 hours ago, youreavinalaff said:

Some good points.

 

The issue with Brexit, through no fault of anyone, was the timing.

 

Soon after Brexit the biggest health issue for over a century occurred. Worldwide economies were struck down. Factories closed, output down, governments paying out billions to help the public but collecting minimal tax back, retail sales collapsing......everyone gets the point.

 

Then the war in Ukraine and the energy crisis caused by it.

 

Had there been a clean run of a few years following Brexit we would have had a clear view of the effects. As we didn't, we don't. Brexiteers and Renainers can argue until they are blue in the face but, at the end of the day, nothing can be proved either way.

 

Anyone who denies that Covid and the war in Ukraine have had a negative effect on the UK (and other) economy(ies) is a fool.

 

However, the overwhelming body of evidence suggests that, to date, Brexit has also had a negative effect on the UK economy (numerous links have been posted numerous times in the past).

 

Re inflation: Some Brexit supporters seem to mistrust economic models, but even intuitively it is difficult to escape the conclusion that Brexit has contributed to inflation. Prior to the referendum the £/€ exchange rate was in the 1.30 - 1.40 range, it now trades in the 1.10 - 1.20 range. I find it hard to believe that this 10 - 20% decline has not lead to some price increases for UK businesses and consumers.

Edited February 2, 2023 by RayC
Grammar

[Mac Mickmanus]

8 minutes ago, RayC said:

Anyone who denies that Covid and the war in Ukraine have had a negative effect on the UK (and other) economy(ies) is a fool.

 

However, the overwhelming body of evidence suggests that, to date, Brexit has also had a negative effect on the UK economy (numerous links have been posted numerous times in the past).

 

Re inflation: Some Brexit supporters seem to mistrust economic models, but even intuitively it is difficult to escape the conclusion that Brexit has contributed to inflation. Prior to the referendum the £/€ exchange rate was in the 1.30 - 1.40 range, it now trades in the 1.10 - 1.20 range. I find it hard to believe that this 10 - 20% decline has not lead to some price increases for UK businesses and consumers.

The Pound /Euro exchange rate was 1.04 in 2009 

[RayC]

28 minutes ago, Mac Mickmanus said:

The Pound /Euro exchange rate was 1.04 in 2009 

It peaked at £1 = €1.75 in the early 2000s but so what?

 

My point is that the result of the referendum was the catalyst for an overnight fall of +/-10% in the value of the pound and it has consistently traded within this €1.10 - €1.20 range ever since.

[youreavinalaff]

2 hours ago, Chomper Higgot said:

The issue with BREXIT is the fact that the UK choosing to erecting trade barriers between the UK economy and its most significant trading partner was always going to damage the economy.

COVID and the Russian invasion of Ukraine have masked the impact of BREXIT.

 

The impacts of COVID are receding, economies are adapting to the war in Ukraine, BREXIT remains and continues to damage the UK economy.

I wonder if you could post a link to prove those facts.

 

What i mean is, you say Covid and the war have masked the effects of Brexit. Please show links that confirm the effects Brexit would have had on UK economy if Covid and the war had never happened.

 

I look forward to an interesting read.

[Chomper Higgot]

2 minutes ago, youreavinalaff said:

I wonder if you could post a link to prove those facts.

 

What i mean is, you say Covid and the war have masked the effects of Brexit. Please show links that confirm the effects Brexit would have had on UK economy if Covid and the war had never happened.

 

I look forward to an interesting read.

Is that a link from an alternative universe where BREXIT occurred but COVID and Russia’s invasion of Ukraine did not?

 

I’ve already provided a link to a credible source on the impacts of BREXIT.

 

 

[youreavinalaff]

2 minutes ago, Chomper Higgot said:

Is that a link from an alternative universe where BREXIT occurred but COVID and Russia’s invasion of Ukraine did not?

 

I’ve already provided a link to a credible source on the impacts of BREXIT.

 

 

If that is the only link you can find. It would help, wouldn't it?

 

If no such universe exists, you'll just have to accept we will never know the true effects of the first few years of Brexit, and stop banging on about it.

[Chomper Higgot]

6 minutes ago, youreavinalaff said:

If that is the only link you can find. It would help, wouldn't it?

 

If no such universe exists, you'll just have to accept we will never know the true effects of the first few years of Brexit, and stop banging on about it.

BREXIT has gone from a great victory, something to be celebrated, an event in British history deserving to be memorialized with a public holiday.

 

To something BREXITeers don’t want to talk about.

 

 

[youreavinalaff]

2 minutes ago, Chomper Higgot said:

BREXIT has gone from a great victory, something to be celebrated, an event in British history deserving to be memorialized with a public holiday.

 

To something BREXITeers don’t want to talk about.

 

 

That would be a personal opinion, I guess. An opinion that differs to my experiences.

[Mac Mickmanus]

5 minutes ago, youreavinalaff said:

That would be a personal opinion, I guess. An opinion that differs to my experiences.

Everything to say about Brexit has been said and now its just a few people saying the same thing back and forth to each other continually .

  

[topt]

Maybe something new here. Just a bit more fuel for the fire.........

 

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/columnists/article-11714171/10-awkward-questions-throw-EU-Rejoiner-corners-dinner-party.html

[Chomper Higgot]

On 2/2/2023 at 6:38 PM, Mac Mickmanus said:

Everything to say about Brexit has been said and now its just a few people saying the same thing back and forth to each other continually .

  

Actually not everything.

 

The Government has seen fit to call a secret meeting to discuss the problems Brexit is causing.

 

Kind of shoots tge ‘It’s not Brexit’ argument in the foot.