new 25 X 455w installation in CM by contractor

[gamb00ler]

We have two connected homes on one plot in CM. Each house has their own breaker box and also the circuits with UPS function in another box in each house.  Two 8.2 KWH batteries provide storage and backup functionality.  The panels, batteries, inverter, AC and DC breakers and voltage and amperage meters are all installed in one of the houses.

A local solar contractor finished the installation in early January.

 

Equipment:

Alpha SMILE T10-HV 3 phase Hybrid Inverter 10kW AC output, up to 16kw input

ADL3000 Smart CT meter

2 X  Alpha T10 High Voltage Battery 8.2kwh

25 X  Longi  LR4 72 HPH panels 

Automatic Transfer Switch

CB2M  DC panel protection, AC inverter protection 3 phase, Grid Tie AC breaker 40amp

 

The houses are not yet occupied as cabinetry not yet finished.  The A/C is installed already so I decided to run a heavy AC load for 24+ hours to test most of the system.  Here's some graphs from the Alpha ESS monitoring software.  There are 5 charts.  The first 4 are the individual of the inputs and outputs for the last 14 hours.  The 5th chart is just the first 4 combined into 1.  There is a gap around 11AM because I noticed the timezone was set incorrectly and when I fixed it... the charts just jumped ahead an hour.

 

 

 

 

 

Edited February 10, 2023 by gamb00ler
explain gap

[gamb00ler]

Pics of the installation.

 

The last two pics are the panels in the second house, main panel and UPS'd panel.

[Crossy]

Sooooo, you know the first question everyone is going to ask....

 

Owmuchizzit??

 

Can we have Some piccies of the panel setup please?

[gamb00ler]

27 minutes ago, Crossy said:

Sooooo, you know the first question everyone is going to ask....

 

Owmuchizzit??

 

Can we have Some piccies of the panel setup please?

Total was 709K฿, of which 60K was for labor and permiting, 61K for mounting hardware and cabling.

There was some extra cabling required because both houses have consumer units for their own breakers.

 

I'm not sure what pictures you would like to see.  Open the consumer units? and the box with the ATS  and volt and amp meters?

[Crossy]

Panels on their mounts would be nice ???? 

 

A system diagram maybe (they did give you one didn't they?).

 

If it looks good and pro your installer could get work out of it too ???? 

[gamb00ler]

Here's a short video by a different solar contractor in Thailand.  The installation depicted is almost exactly what we have.  I had contacted the contractor in this video but he doesn't work in CM so he referred me to the contractor I did use.

 

https://www.facebook.com/561102171/videos/1275039493075446/ 

 

Our contractor was:

https://eyekandi-solar.com/

 

I'll get some more pics but here's the panels close to completion.

 

Edited February 11, 2023 by gamb00ler

[BritManToo]

16 hours ago, gamb00ler said:

Total was 709K฿, of which 60K was for labor and permiting, 61K for mounting hardware and cabling.

There was some extra cabling required because both houses have consumer units for their own breakers.

 

I'm not sure what pictures you would like to see.  Open the consumer units? and the box with the ATS  and volt and amp meters?

Wayyyyyyyy too expensive IMHO.

2x 10kWhr batteries = 100kbht

25 panels = 100kbht.

10kW inverter = 35kbht

Cables/mountings/breakers = peanuts.

 

So effectively you paid 3x the price of the parts.

And it will be interesting to see how many leaks your new roof has in the monsoon.

Not keen on roof mounting, the Thai workers usually aren't up to that job.

Edited February 11, 2023 by BritManToo

[Encid]

4 hours ago, gamb00ler said:

Here's a short video by a different solar contractor in Thailand.  The installation depicted is almost exactly what we have.  I had contacted the contractor in this video but he doesn't work in CM so he referred me to the contractor I did use.

 

https://www.facebook.com/561102171/videos/1275039493075446/ 

 

[Crossy]

I don't think it's a million miles from what I'd expect for a premium, contractor installed system here in Thailand.

 

The Alpha kit is certainly not "budget", it's also not DIYable (HV batteries etc.). 

https://www.kitjarak.com/product/107/Alpha-ESS-SMILE-T10-10KVA-with-Battery-11.6-KWh

 

The equivalent Sofar (premium DIY) 10kW 3-phase on-grid hybrid inverter is about 65kBaht.

Panels, say 5,400 Baht for 450W mono x 25 = 135kBaht

Packs, Seplos 10kWh are 2,600USD ex-China so say 6k US for two by the time you've paid shipping etc. - 200kBaht

 

So big ticket items 400k Baht, I'd be expecting to pay materials x 1.5-2 when installed so 600k - 800k ish. 

 

@gamb00ler are you set up to export excess to the grid or are you purely grid-assisted like @Bandersnatch?

 

I would agree with @BritManToo on the roof installation, if, that is, you had space for a suitably aligned car-port. Easier maintenance and rather less visible.

Let's hope the installation crew live up to the price.

 

 

[Encid]

17 hours ago, gamb00ler said:

Total was 709K฿, of which 60K was for labor and permiting, 61K for mounting hardware and cabling.

There was some extra cabling required because both houses have consumer units for their own breakers.

From what I have been seeing lately you have got a pretty reasonable price for a professionally installed system. 

 

Sure, there are cheaper systems around, but for a contractor-installed system comprising 11.25 kW of PV plus a 10 kW 3 phase on-grid hybrid inverter with 16.4 kWh of ESS (high voltage means faster charging and discharging rates) I think that it's a pretty good deal.

 

The installation looks very professional, although I'd be a little concerned over the bottom battery being susceptible to the occasional accidental swipe from a wet mop... I'd prefer to see it raised about 20cm.

[Encid]

7 minutes ago, Crossy said:

The Alpha kit is certainly not "budget", it's also not DIYable (HV batteries etc.). 

Apart from the faster charging and discharging rates are there any other benefits to using an HV (389-400V) ESS?

 

What about longevity compared with LV (48V)? 

[Encid]

22 hours ago, gamb00ler said:

2 X  Alpha T10 High Voltage Battery 8.2kwh

I see that both the inverter and the battery packs have 5 year product warranties, and the battery pack has a 10 year performance warranty.

 

[Muhendis]

1 hour ago, Encid said:

Hmmm.

A contactless contractor.

I guess he left his contact details in the event of any rework required............

Edited February 11, 2023 by Muhendis

[Crossy]

34 minutes ago, Encid said:

Apart from the faster charging and discharging rates are there any other benefits to using an HV (389-400V) ESS?

What about longevity compared with LV (48V)? 

 

Using a HV pack reduces the load / charge currents.

10kW @ 50V (48V pack) is 200A = pretty fat wires.

10kW @ 300V (288V pack) is 33A = much more manageable cable sizes.

 

Also, you can use smaller individual cells, cheaper to manufacture, more mature production process.

10kWh @ 50V = 200Ah so 16 x 200Ah cells.

10kWh @ 300V = 33Ah so 96 x 33Ah cells.

 

Of course, this comes with a more complex BMS, but electronics is cheap and reliable these days.

 

The dangers associated with HV DC supplies really preclude DIYing, the risk of shock and arc-flash is just too great. Stick to 48V in the DIY world although even 48V can get pretty "exciting" if poorly implemented.

[Muhendis]

44 minutes ago, Encid said:

Apart from the faster charging and discharging rates are there any other benefits to using an HV (389-400V) ESS?

 

What about longevity compared with LV (48V)? 

My first project was 96v.

Very much do-able.

 

"are there any other benefits to using an HV (389-400V) ESS?"

 

Yes. High voltage = low current so the copper cables are much smaller therefore less expensive.

Edited February 11, 2023 by Muhendis

[Muhendis]

3 minutes ago, Crossy said:

the risk of shock and arc-flash is just too great.

Arc flash at 400v?

Certainly electric shock is likely to have fatal results at that voltage.

[Muhendis]

35 minutes ago, Encid said:

I see that both the inverter and the battery packs have 5 year product warranties, and the battery pack has a 10 year performance warranty.

Can anyone give me an idea what this means?

[Crossy]

2 minutes ago, Muhendis said:

Arc flash at 400v?

 

Your arc welder works at 50-60V and 100A or so. It's pretty bright and hot. It's also current limited and easy to disconnect.

 

Imagine an arc capable of a few kA at 400V with no current limit and no means of disconnection!

That will blind, cause severe burns and even kill unless the correct PPE is in use.

 

[Crossy]

11 minutes ago, Muhendis said:

Can anyone give me an idea what this means?

 

I imagine it's along the lines of the EV pack warranties, 90% (or whatever) capacity after 10 years.

 

[Muhendis]

1 minute ago, Crossy said:

Imagine an arc capable of a few kA at 400V with no current limit and no means of disconnection!

Wow.

Where can I get those solar panels.

[Crossy]

Just now, Muhendis said:

Wow.

Where can I get those solar panels.

 

We are talking battery packs here!

[Muhendis]

3 minutes ago, Crossy said:

 

We are talking battery packs here!

Ah. Right.

I was only thinking of solar for some reason.

[Muhendis]

14 minutes ago, Crossy said:

Imagine an arc capable of a few kA at 400V with no current limit and no means of disconnection!

That will blind, cause severe burns and even kill unless the correct PPE is in use.

It would also vaporize whatever was being welded including the welder maybe. 

[Encid]

13 minutes ago, Crossy said:

 

I imagine it's along the lines of the EV pack warranties, 90% (or whatever) capacity after 10 years.

 

That's exactly what I was referring to...

The warranty typically guarantees that the battery won’t degrade past a certain percent of the original charge capacity during the warranty term.

 

I'd be happy with the warranties provided by Alpha.

 

38 minutes ago, Muhendis said:

Hmmm.

A contactless contractor.

I guess he left his contact details in the event of any rework required............

They've taken away the laughing emoji so here's another one just for you.

[gamb00ler]

1 hour ago, Crossy said:

are you set up to export excess to the grid or are you purely grid-assisted like

Apparently PEA doesn't allow solar system over 10Kw to feed into the grid.

[Crossy]

Not sure if this is the same video.

 

 

[gamb00ler]

Sorry about the private link to the video.  Try this one to the solar contractors FB page.  Currently the video I linked to is the first one listed on his page.

https://www.facebook.com/groups/300126774329850/?hoisted_section_header_type=recently_seen&multi_permalinks=931140141228507

 

@Crossy we don't have a carport type roof available, same problem on garage as main roof

 

 

The ATS for backup power to selected circuits:

 

Edited February 11, 2023 by gamb00ler

[gamb00ler]

2 hours ago, BritManToo said:

Not keen on roof mounting, the Thai workers usually aren't up to that job.

At least two of his Thai workers lived and were trained in the West as electricians before returning to Thailand.  I talked quite a while with them about their experience of living in the West and then back to Thailand.

[gamb00ler]

14 minutes ago, Crossy said:

Not sure if this is the same video.

That's my installer, Sean.  The video I tried to link to was by another foreign owned solar installation company that referred me to Eyekandi Solar.

[Crossy]

It certainly looks like a decent install, shame they lost the earth braid for the door of the ATS cabinet** 

 

** Sorry, it's part of my job to notice things like this, with public-facing systems everything has to be 120% (yes, even here).