From Brexit to Rejoin - The Inflection Point.

[JonnyF]

15 minutes ago, Chomper Higgot said:

Let’s stick with some realities shall we.

 

After years of denying the evidence of the damage Brexit is doing to the UK the Government have held a cross party conference to discuss the problems of Brexit.

 

The significant issues are firstly admitting the problems and secondly precisely who it is that have been included in this conference.

 

This is, as I suggest in OP to this thread, a point of inflection

 

 

 

They've certainly messed it up, on that we can agree.

 

By trying to please everyone, they have pleased nobody.

 

They should have done a proper Brexit. WTO terms if necessary. The NI protocol is a mess. The solution is not to rejoin, but to scrap the protocol and leave the ECHR. 

 

Rejoining would be an absolute disaster. A complete non starter. Especially as they head into recession in 2023. Better for everyone to pull together and make it a success than banging on about the same petty arguments since 2016.

 

https://www.wellington.com/en/insights/europe-economic-outlook-2023#:~:text=We expect the euro area,mild start to the winter.

 

[Chomper Higgot]

2 minutes ago, JonnyF said:

They've certainly messed it up, on that we can agree.

 

By trying to please everyone, they have pleased nobody.

 

They should have done a proper Brexit. WTO terms if necessary. The NI protocol is a mess. The solution is not to rejoin, but to scrap the protocol and leave the ECHR. 

 

Rejoining would be an absolute disaster. A complete non starter. Especially as they head into recession in 2023. Better for everyone to pull together and make it a success than banging on about the same petty arguments since 2016.

 

https://www.wellington.com/en/insights/europe-economic-outlook-2023#:~:text=We expect the euro area,mild start to the winter.

 

Right, so the Government convene a conference together with prominent supporters of Remain and you ignore what that’s telling you and go off on a ‘withdraw from the ECHR’ thing.

 

Firstly, the ECHR is absolutely nothing to do with the EU or Brexit, secondly this conference is nothing to do with what’s happening in the Eurozone, it’s about admitting the damage Brexit is doing to the UK, reversing the policy of antagonism towards the EU and examining better cooperation with the EU.

 

My punt is first off, ditch Rees Mogg’s  lunatic idea to repeal the so called ‘residual EU laws and regulations’.

 

I also suggest give up on the hopes you’ve been fed on ditching the ECHR.

 

It ain’t going to happen.

 

Hard Brexit is dead.

[Tish 2]

1 hour ago, paddypower said:

what upsets me no end is all those Johnny Foreigners coming in and taking the place of honest-to-God white boys in the Premier and Championship Football Leagues. It was all very well when the Paddies came in the 1800's and built our roads - they knew their place...................

Get that chip off your shoulder Paddy,i can see it from here.

By the way i'm a bricklayer and whilst working in Dublin was told to fxxk off to my own country more than once.

[Gottfrid]

3 hours ago, wombat said:

UK regained its sovereignty...

That was not a bad Idea.

Yes, and lost teamwork and a lot of opportunities. But hey! No problem. Go back to the stone age and stand strong alone. 

[placeholder]

2 minutes ago, Tish 2 said:

Get that chip off your shoulder Paddy,i can see it from here.

By the way i'm a bricklayer and whilst working in Dublin was told to fxxk off to my own country more than once.

I believe that paddypower was joking.

[JonnyF]

2 minutes ago, Chomper Higgot said:

Right, so the Government convene a conference together with prominent supporters of Remain and you ignore what that’s telling you and go off on a ‘withdraw from the ECHR’ thing.

 

Firstly, the ECHR is absolutely nothing to do with the EU or Brexit, secondly this conference is nothing to do with what’s happening in the Eurozone, it’s about admitting the damage Brexit is doing to the UK, reversing the policy of antagonism towards the EU and examining better cooperation with the EU.

 

My punt is first off, ditch Rees Mogg’s  lunatic idea to repeal the so called ‘residual EU laws and regulations’.

 

I also suggest give up on the hopes you’ve been fed on ditching the ECHR.

 

It ain’t going to happen.

 

Hard Brexit is dead.

Antagonism towards the EU? I think you've got that azz-about face. It was the EU that was incredibly antagonistic during the withdrawal process. Any issues that caused can be directly attributed to the petty vindictive attitudes of the EU.

 

Any hopes of rejoining are pure fantasy. If it gained any traction it would lead to the rise of a new party and be put swiftly to bed. It happened before with The Brexit Party dominating the European elections and it would happen again. It woudn't necessaily be a bad thing IMO, the Tories are messing things up and Labour are farcical.

 

Why anyone would want to rejoin an EU engulfed in a corruption scandal and heading into recession is beyond me.

 

https://www.euronews.com/my-europe/2023/02/10/corruption-scandal-mep-marc-tarabella-arrested-by-belgian-police-pending-hearing-before-ju

 

[Tish 2]

4 minutes ago, placeholder said:

I believe that paddypower was joking.

You believe wrong.

[placeholder]

2 minutes ago, JonnyF said:

Antagonism towards the EU? I think you've got that azz-about face. It was the EU that was incredibly antagonistic during the withdrawal process. Any issues that caused can be directly attributed to the petty vindictive attitudes of the EU.

 

Any hopes of rejoining are pure fantasy. If it gained any traction it would lead to the rise of a new party and be put swiftly to bed. It happened before with The Brexit Party dominating the European elections and it would happen again. It woudn't necessaily be a bad thing IMO, the Tories are messing things up and Labour are farcical.

 

Why anyone would want to rejoin an EU engulfed in a corruption scandal and heading into recession is beyond me.

 

https://www.euronews.com/my-europe/2023/02/10/corruption-scandal-mep-marc-tarabella-arrested-by-belgian-police-pending-hearing-before-ju

 

Engulfed? Really? This bribery case, was about Qatar and Kuwait paying bribes to be exempted from visa requirements. This is not about malfeasance in respect to EU funds..

And, of course, whether or not the EU is heading into recession has little bearing on the issue of trade.

[placeholder]

4 minutes ago, Tish 2 said:

You believe wrong.

I think that 3 out of the 4 reactions being laugh emojis supports my case. 

[Tish 2]

5 minutes ago, placeholder said:

I think that 3 out of the 4 reactions being laugh emojis supports my case. 

Ok,you win.

[placeholder]

1 minute ago, Tish 2 said:

Ok,you win.

To commemorate my victory, I'm going to put a trophy up on my mantelpiece. Of course, this means that I have to actuall buy a mantelpice. And build a fireplace to justify that purchase. A pyrrhic victory, it seems to be.

[Chomper Higgot]

26 minutes ago, JonnyF said:

Antagonism towards the EU? I think you've got that azz-about face. It was the EU that was incredibly antagonistic during the withdrawal process. Any issues that caused can be directly attributed to the petty vindictive attitudes of the EU.

 

Any hopes of rejoining are pure fantasy. If it gained any traction it would lead to the rise of a new party and be put swiftly to bed. It happened before with The Brexit Party dominating the European elections and it would happen again. It woudn't necessaily be a bad thing IMO, the Tories are messing things up and Labour are farcical.

 

Why anyone would want to rejoin an EU engulfed in a corruption scandal and heading into recession is beyond me.

 

https://www.euronews.com/my-europe/2023/02/10/corruption-scandal-mep-marc-tarabella-arrested-by-belgian-police-pending-hearing-before-ju

 

The facts of the conference are staring you in the face.

 

It’s not about your myopic focus on reports of corruption being dealt with in the EU (while buried or ignored in the UK).

 

It’s about admitting the damage Brexit is doing to the UK.

 

Look at who was included in this conference and then ask what is that telling you?!

 

 

[Purdey]

Look, Brexit was a decision based on racism, not economics. British people of southeast Asian origin were taunted the very next day with  "You're going home!" And "Go back to where you come from."

Where they came from was often Birmingham or Nottingham. 

Ordinary people don't understand trade, economics or industries. In their minds they understood that "millions of dark*es are flooding Britain."

You can't expect these people to have sensible reasons. 

 

[JonnyF]

34 minutes ago, Chomper Higgot said:

It’s about admitting the damage Brexit is doing to the UK.

No, it's about taking the first steps to Rejoining. The thread of the title alone gives it away.

 

I'm all for increasing trade with the EU. I was very happy with the "common market" as it started off. Never had any issue trading with them. The problem is, that is not what the EU or the Rejoiners want. It is simply a ruse to kick start a campaign to rejoin. To eventually again become a part of the march towards a United States of Europe. It won't happen. The EU don't want to trade with us as equal partners, they want us under their jurisdiction. 

[Chomper Higgot]

15 minutes ago, JonnyF said:

No, it's about taking the first steps to Rejoining. The thread of the title alone gives it away.

 

I'm all for increasing trade with the EU. I was very happy with the "common market" as it started off. Never had any issue trading with them. The problem is, that is not what the EU or the Rejoiners want. It is simply a ruse to kick start a campaign to rejoin. To eventually again become a part of the march towards a United States of Europe. It won't happen. The EU don't want to trade with us as equal partners, they want us under their jurisdiction. 

I know what the title says, I wrote the OP.

The fist step to fixing a problem is to admit the problem exists.

 

The Government have now admitted the problems Brexit has caused and is causing for the UK.

 

Hence my observation that this is an inflection point.

 

The campaign to rejoin started on the morning of the referendum result.

 

Regurgitated Brexit arguments in the face of Brexit damaging the UK is obviously not what the conference or indeed the Government are discussing.

 

 

[Caldera]

Seeing what Russia and China have been up to lately, neither the UK nor Europe can afford to be divided moving forward. As simple as that, it's now time to forget the whole Brexit mess and move on united. 

[kwilco]

5 hours ago, Tish 2 said:

The people of Britain voted for Brexit solely for the reason of seemingly uncontrolled immigration.At least before Brexit the new arrivals came to work but under this pathetic attempt at a government all the dross of the world are allowed in,filling every 4star hotel (all paid for by British tax payers)and complaining about slow internet.

 It's impossible now to get pick-pocketed in Romania and Albania because they all live in London now.

What has any of that got to do with EU membership..immigration is up now..

[kwilco]

57 minutes ago, JonnyF said:

No, it's about taking the first steps to Rejoining. The thread of the title alone gives it away.

 

I'm all for increasing trade with the EU. I was very happy with the "common market" as it started off. Never had any issue trading with them. The problem is, that is not what the EU or the Rejoiners want. It is simply a ruse to kick start a campaign to rejoin. To eventually again become a part of the march towards a United States of Europe. It won't happen. The EU don't want to trade with us as equal partners, they want us under their jurisdiction. 

You can't take steps until you've admitted something is wrong

[kwilco]

5 hours ago, BritManToo said:

I'd suggest a quick invasion of France, followed by a united Europe under British rule.

And they say Brexiteers are dumb.?

[kwilco]

5 hours ago, wombat said:

UK regained its sovereignty...

That was not a bad Idea.

How can you regain something to never lost?

[kwilco]

2 hours ago, placeholder said:

I think that 3 out of the 4 reactions being laugh emojis supports my case. 

I think you need to study critical thinking a bit.

[kwilco]

5 hours ago, theoldgit said:

 

I'm not sure that the EU would welcome us back with open arms, and if they did allow us to return they certainly wouldn't allow us the concessions and opt outs we previously enjoyed before we bailed out.

What evidence are you basing that theory on?

[Petethefeet]

The electorate were told a lot of lies by the government. We are paying the price now. Why would we want to leave the biggest trading block in the world. 

[fvw53]

1 hour ago, Petethefeet said:

The electorate were told a lot of lies by the government. We are paying the price now. Why would we want to leave the biggest trading block in the world. 

It illustrates the danger of referendums in which badly informed people vote based on a gut feeling / also referendums should obtain at least 60% to be credible

 

[theoldgit]

5 hours ago, kwilco said:

What evidence are you basing that theory on?

 

Like everyone elses opinion, it's probably based on my own gut feeling, I'd certainly welcome any meaningful evidence to prove me wrong.

[BritManToo]

3 hours ago, Purdey said:

Look, Brexit was a decision based on racism

The EU is all white, so how can a vote to leave be racist?

How many non-white countries have been allowed to join the EU?

If the answer is none then the EU is racist, and the UK was non-racist by leaving a racist organisation.

[JonnyF]

2 hours ago, Chomper Higgot said:

The campaign to rejoin started on the morning of the referendum result.

Not going to happen. Much like Scottish Independence it is but a pipe dream for those who cannot accept reality.

 

I am all for improving relations with the EU, but I'm afraid the ball is in their court on that one. If they stop trying to divide the UK using tools such as the NI protocol then we could sit down and have a mature discussion with them, but I suspect they will be sulking about us rejecting them for at least another decade. It's a shame they cannot be more pragmatic since as many of us predicted, Brexit has hit them very hard as their largest economy (Germany) shrinks, likely into recession.

 

https://www.reuters.com/world/europe/german-economy-unexpectedly-shrinks-q4-2023-01-30/

[Chomper Higgot]

53 minutes ago, JonnyF said:

Not going to happen. Much like Scottish Independence it is but a pipe dream for those who cannot accept reality.

 

I am all for improving relations with the EU, but I'm afraid the ball is in their court on that one. If they stop trying to divide the UK using tools such as the NI protocol then we could sit down and have a mature discussion with them, but I suspect they will be sulking about us rejecting them for at least another decade. It's a shame they cannot be more pragmatic since as many of us predicted, Brexit has hit them very hard as their largest economy (Germany) shrinks, likely into recession.

 

https://www.reuters.com/world/europe/german-economy-unexpectedly-shrinks-q4-2023-01-30/

More denial of the unfolding reality.

[brewsterbudgen]

Just now, Chomper Higgot said:

More denial of the unfolding reality.

Indeed.  It may take a few years or even decades, but the next generation will insist we re-join and this time it will mean accepting the euro too.

[kwilco]

3 hours ago, theoldgit said:

 

Like everyone elses opinion, it's probably based on my own gut feeling, I'd certainly welcome any meaningful evidence to prove me wrong.

You have the evidence against you already...if you want to present a counter argument  the usual process is to back it up