From Brexit to Rejoin - The Inflection Point.

[brewsterbudgen]

46 minutes ago, JonnyF said:

I see Sturgeon has resigned . More great news for the UK, another divisive voice has failed.

 

This will certainly lead to far less noise regarding the UK rejoining the EU. Less noise about Brexit breaking up the UK etc. 

 

What a great few weeks. Ardern gone. Sturgeon gone. Hopefully Macron will be the next ultra authoritarian #bekind leftist to go. Sturgeon ultimately brought down by her extremist left wing views about male rapists being put into female prisons because they've changed their "identity". What a way to go. Perfect. Delicious in fact.

If Rishi upsets his crazy Brexit wing, he might be next to go!

 

In any case, despite his mediocrity and lack of charisma, having Starmer as PM can only be an improvement.

[Chomper Higgot]

44 minutes ago, JonnyF said:

I see Sturgeon has resigned . More great news for the UK, another divisive voice has failed.

 

This will certainly lead to far less noise regarding the UK rejoining the EU. Less noise about Brexit breaking up the UK etc. 

 

What a great few weeks. Ardern gone. Sturgeon gone. Hopefully Macron will be the next ultra authoritarian #bekind leftist to go. Sturgeon ultimately brought down by her extremist left wing views about male rapists being put into female prisons because they've changed their "identity". What a way to go. Perfect. Delicious in fact.

What you refer to as ‘noise’ is the expression of growing public opinion against Brexit.

Last week we learned the Government held a conference lead by Brexit supporting minister Gove, with members of the opposition and Brexit critics to discuss the damage Brexit is doing to the UK and how to work closer with the EU.

 

This was shortly followed by Government Minister Mel Stride publicly admitting the damage Brexit is doing to investment in the UK.

The ‘noise’ you are complaining about is getting louder and is now coming directly from members of the Cabinet Office.

 

As I said some months ago, the truth of Brexit damage cannot be hidden forever.

 

 

 

https://www.theguardian.com/politics/live/2023/feb/14/rishi-sunak-tory-conservatives-labour-china-latest-politics-news-updates

[Chomper Higgot]

51 minutes ago, JonnyF said:

Was it? Why would you say that? 

Because it’s a fact

 

https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2016/jun/16/farage-poster-enoch-powell-rivers-of-blood-racism-ukip-european-union

[JonnyF]

5 minutes ago, Chomper Higgot said:

Because it’s a fact

 

https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2016/jun/16/farage-poster-enoch-powell-rivers-of-blood-racism-ukip-european-union

An opinion piece by The Guardian about one poster does not make it a "central issue".

 

Everyone I spoke to thought the poster was a bit silly, but still wanted out of the technocratic, corrupt EU that was leading us towards a United States of Europe with Germany and France at the top table.

 

[Chomper Higgot]

1 minute ago, JonnyF said:

An opinion piece by The Guardian about one poster does not make it a "central issue".

 

Everyone I spoke to thought the poster was a bit silly, but still wanted out of the technocratic, corrupt EU that was leading us towards a United States of Europe with Germany and France at the top table.

 

The problem for your denial argument is, the ‘opinion piece’ includes the poster and the guy promoting it.

 

I’ve produced evidence of the poster and Farage promoting its message.

 

Good luck with your ‘everyone I spoke to’.

 

Back to topic.

 

The Government’s secret Brexit meeting has been followed by a Government Minister openly stating Brexit is damaging investment in the UK.

 

Difficult to deny these facts given Government Ministers are now openly admitting the damage Brexit is doing.

 

So, deflect away.

[JonnyF]

14 minutes ago, Chomper Higgot said:

The Government’s secret Brexit meeting has been followed by a Government Minister openly stating Brexit is damaging investment in the UK.

Arch Remainer Mel Stride claims Brexit was a bad idea?

 

Well, colour me shocked ????. Another bitter Remainer who won't stop moaning 

[BritManToo]

15 minutes ago, Chomper Higgot said:

The Government’s secret Brexit meeting has been followed by a Government Minister openly stating Brexit is damaging investment in the UK.

Election soon,

Let's have one party promising to rejoin, and one party promising to stay out.

Then we can all see what the people really want.

I predict the party vowing to rejoin would be wiped out, which is why that won't happen.

Edited February 16, 2023 by BritManToo

[Chomper Higgot]

37 minutes ago, JonnyF said:

Arch Remainer Mel Stride claims Brexit was a bad idea?

 

Well, colour me shocked ????. Another bitter Remainer who won't stop moaning 

He’s a member of the Cabinet, do you think he speaks on this without any agreement with the PM?

 

Let’s see who’s next to speak out against Brexit.

[Chomper Higgot]

40 minutes ago, BritManToo said:

Election soon,

Let's have one party promising to rejoin, and one party promising to stay out.

Then we can all see what the people really want.

I predict the party vowing to rejoin would be wiped out, which is why that won't happen.

The next election will be fought on the most pressing issues facing voters.

 

The economy, the NHS, public services, the damage done by over 12 years of Tory mismanagement.

 

The damage Brexit is doing is now  being discussed openly, political parties will follow public opinion, not lead it.

[brewsterbudgen]

43 minutes ago, BritManToo said:

Election soon,

Let's have one party promising to rejoin, and one party promising to stay out.

Then we can all see what the people really want.

I predict the party vowing to rejoin would be wiped out, which is why that won't happen.

Correct.  That's why Starmer (shamefully, in my opinion) has even ruled out rejoining the single market and customs union if Labour win.  I suspect (hope) that will change pretty soon after they're elected!

[Chomper Higgot]

57 minutes ago, brewsterbudgen said:

Correct.  That's why Starmer (shamefully, in my opinion) has even ruled out rejoining the single market and customs union if Labour win.  I suspect (hope) that will change pretty soon after they're elected!

Starmer is playing smart.

 

Fight the next election on the most pressing issues facing voters.

 

Anti Brexit, Pro Rejoin sentiment is steadily increasing.

 

The next Government will settle for mending fences broken by the Tories.

 

[JayClay]

16 hours ago, Sir Dude said:

If we rejoined the EU, how much would Britain pay into its budget per year?

If free movement into the UK from the EU were to be restored, what would annual net migration be?

What proportion of the global economy, and of British trade, will the EU represent in 20 years?

What would be the effect on future trade of abandoning our new, closer ties with the growing Pacific region?

What would be the economic cost of joining the eurozone?

Will the UK rejoin the Common Fisheries Policy as the UK will gain full control over their waters in 2026?

As we now have a Free Trade Agreement with the EU, what precisely would be the advantage of rejoining the Single Market and Customs Union?

Would Brussels lawmakers have priority over Parliament, and would the European Court of Justice be superior to British courts?

Would Rejoiners agree to the EU being in overall charge of our foreign and security policy?

Would Rejoiners commit to a referendum to approve the terms negotiated for a new relationship with the EU?

 

The above are examples of sensible questions that would need convincing answers... w

Firstly you should be quoting your source rather than trying to pass these questions off as your own thoughts.

 

Secondly, none of those questions are sensible and they're all answered for you here:

 

https://youtu.be/k5Nr9zs-q9A

Edited February 16, 2023 by JayClay

[fvw53]

23 hours ago, kwilco said:

You don't seem to realise that everything you post is in racist terms. and like a racist it relies on  a few well used cliches - usually trying to argue that it isn't racist.

You seem determined to avoid discussing racism as a factor of Brexit 

Many times the word "tribal" should be better than "racist".....indeed workers from Poland look not different than workers from the UK

[Mac Mickmanus]

2 minutes ago, fvw53 said:

Many times the word "tribal" should be better than "racist".....indeed workers from Poland look not different than workers from the UK

Workers from Poland tend to be White Caucasians , workers from the UK come from a multitude of different races/cultures

[kwilco]

5 hours ago, Mac Mickmanus said:

Workers from Poland tend to be White Caucasians , workers from the UK come from a multitude of different races/cultures

You are only reinforcing the stereotype of a racist Brexiteer - you don't seem to be able to understand that your entire argument is based of the fallacy of race.

 

[Mac Mickmanus]

3 minutes ago, kwilco said:

You are only reinforcing the stereotype of a racist Brexiteer - you don't seem to be able to understand that your entire argument is based of the fallacy of race.

 

What I state is a fact .

Poland is 99 % White

UK is less than that ,

Polish people being White if a fact , rather than it being racist

[kwilco]

51 minutes ago, Mac Mickmanus said:

What I state is a fact .

Poland is 99 % White

UK is less than that ,

Polish people being White if a fact , rather than it being racist

It doesn't alter the FACT that you are seeing things in terms of race, a fallacious concept.

[Mac Mickmanus]

1 hour ago, kwilco said:

It doesn't alter the FACT that you are seeing things in terms of race, a fallacious concept.

If you keep accusing other of being racists , then that is the subject that needs to be addressed .

  As you keep stating that Brexiteers are racists, its needs to be pointed out that Eastern Europeans are typically White and that the rest of the World isn't 

[Chomper Higgot]

3 hours ago, Mac Mickmanus said:

If you keep accusing other of being racists , then that is the subject that needs to be addressed .

  As you keep stating that Brexiteers are racists, its needs to be pointed out that Eastern Europeans are typically White and that the rest of the World isn't 

I’ve also pointed out the use of racist themes by the Leave campaign.

 

I personally believe xenophobia played a far bigger part in the Brexit vote than did racism, but to deny the part racism played is to deny plain reality.

 

The hypersensitivity of Brexiteers to being called out for the racist themes that were employed by the Leave campaign is what gives the game away.

 

A little more honesty would admit the use and presence of racism in the Brexit campaign while denying (perhaps) personal involvement.

 

[Tish 2]

On 2/15/2023 at 7:43 PM, kwilco said:

You don't seem to realise that everything you post is in racist terms. and like a racist it relies on  a few well used cliches - usually trying to argue that it isn't racist.

You seem determined to avoid discussing racism as a factor of Brexit 

I'm sure you could have squeezed in another "racist" there.

[Tish 2]

On 2/14/2023 at 10:55 PM, kwilco said:

Supermajorities have been used for centuries, both in parliaments and referendums.

Historically the UK doesn’t use referendums and there are 2 kinds – ones that are binding on the government and those that aren’t

 

1 January 1973 The United Kingdom, the Republic of Ireland and Denmark entered the 'European Economic Community (EEC),

Then United Kingdom European Communities membership referendum was a public vote that took place on 5 June 1975, 

In that referendum in 1975 the UK electorate voted to stay in the EEC. The electorate voted ‘Yes' by 67.2% to 32.8% to stay in Europe. – a super majority.This was the first national referendum ever to be held throughout the United Kingdom, and would remain the only UK-wide referendum until the 2011

 

Many countries require supermajorities either in parliament or in a referendum to make major changes - These Acts/referendums especially constitutional ones require what is commonly referred to as a “Super-majority”

 

The first known use of a supermajority rule was over 2000 years ago in in ancient Rome.

The catholic church has used them since the 12^th century.

 

The following countries/treaties require supermajorities, mostly in reference to constitutional change – note also that many use their parliament as opposed to a referendum – as they are not  necessarily considered to be that democratic

 

The Council of the European Union uses 'Qualified majority voting' for the majority of issues brought before the institution. However, for matters of extreme importance for individual member states, unanimous voting is implemented. An example of this is Article 7 of the Treaty on European Union, whereby a member state

Australia - To pass an amendment to the Australian Constitution, a referendum is required and must achieve a "double majority":

Canada -  for most constitutional amendments

Denmark - if the government or parliament wants to cede parts of national sovereignty to an international body such as the European Union or the United Nations, it has to get a five-sixths majority

Indian Constitution requires a supermajority of two-thirds of members present and voting in each house

 

Finland - when a new legislative proposal would in some way add, alter or remove a part of the Finnish constitution, a bill requires a 2/3 majority

Japan.

New Zealand

Nigeria

Philippines

Singapore

South Korea

Spain

Taiwan

Turkey

Ukraine

United Kingdom

United States

United Nations - requires a supermajority of the fixed membership on substantive matters

 

Who's a clever boy then?

[placeholder]

On 2/17/2023 at 3:28 AM, Mac Mickmanus said:

If you keep accusing other of being racists , then that is the subject that needs to be addressed .

  As you keep stating that Brexiteers are racists, its needs to be pointed out that Eastern Europeans are typically White and that the rest of the World isn't 

It also needs to be pointed out that racism in its developed sense, not only refers to race but also ethnicity

 

"Racism is the belief that groups of humans possess different behavioral traits corresponding to inherited attributes and can be divided based on the superiority of one race over another.[1][2][3] It may also mean prejudice, discrimination, or antagonism directed against other people because they are of a different race or ethnicity.[2] "

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Racism

 

Here's another example of a word that isn't accurate etymologically but is nonetheless universally used to denote prejudice against Jews: anti-Semitism.

Literally, semites are not just jews but Arabs, Phoenicians, Chaldeans, etc etc etc. Occasionally jew hater argue that they aren't anti-Semites because the don't hate Arabs. This is obviously nonsense.

Edited February 18, 2023 by placeholder

[JayClay]

On 2/17/2023 at 7:29 AM, Chomper Higgot said:

I personally believe xenophobia played a far bigger part in the Brexit vote than did racism, but to deny the part racism played is to deny plain reality.

 

The hypersensitivity of Brexiteers to being called out for the racist themes that were employed by the Leave campaign is what gives the game away.

A brexiteer is in a tough position when it comes to this topic. They can't really admit that a small minority of the people who voted for Brexit are racisis; because the leave campaign only won by a small majority. By admitting that racism played any part is to admit that they needed support from such people to get the vote over the line, which they of course did.

[kwilco]

1 hour ago, Tish 2 said:

Who's a clever boy then?

Thanks,but what point are you trying to make?

[Chomper Higgot]

4 hours ago, JayClay said:

A brexiteer is in a tough position when it comes to this topic. They can't really admit that a small minority of the people who voted for Brexit are racisis; because the leave campaign only won by a small majority. By admitting that racism played any part is to admit that they needed support from such people to get the vote over the line, which they of course did.

I think their posting history reveals more on the truth of the matter.

 

 

[JayClay]

52 minutes ago, Chomper Higgot said:

I think their posting history reveals more on the truth of the matter.

 

 

I haven't been following the thread all the way through and my comments were made regarding brexiteers in general.

[GypsyT]

UK should rejoin EU as soon as possible. Welcome back!

 

They clearly over estimated their importance....

Everybody who has watched this;

https://dcbltd.com/cant-pay-well-take-it-away/

knows how bad things are and soon UK is an other Jiji or Kenia - run by Indians. Is that "reverse colonialism?"

>those who have inflicted colonial rule on others imagine that they are victims of the same injustice.<