British woman, 20, left for dead in hit and run motorbike crash faces being thrown out of Thai hospital despite horrifying injuries after being hit with £40,000 medical bill

[Ralf001]

6 hours ago, Waterlily2544 said:

Typical greedy Thailand. I had a letter of guarantee BEFORE going to the ER of one of the major international hospitals in BKK and had 100% coverage (excruciating abdominal pain, not an accident) and they treated me like <deleted>, wanted cash up front; had huge bruises on my arms from where the nurses hit me so hard. They stuck me on a bed in the ER and shoved me in a corner and mostly ignored me for 20 hours. At hour 15 I was begging for something to eat. Turned out I had a massive internal infection. I finally escaped and went to a different hospital that didn't seem to care about money and insurance and after a week as an in patient I was better. Some hospitals in BKK ride on their fancy name but are total <deleted>. 

Typically they want confirmation of payment guarantee direct from the horses mouth and not some letter that could have been typed up by somchai the taxi drivers daughter.

 

FWiw, I had a mild stroke 10 years ago, presented to admissions at a large private hospital in Pattaya and the wheeled to ER.

I laid in an ER gurney for 7 hours with no treatment or assistance whilst the insurance company was deciding iff they would cover the bill or not.

 

[jacko45k]

18 hours ago, Nong Khai Man said:

I have had a bad wrist injury.......And How did that happen ?? Errrrrr. Doesn't Matter Think we all know !!   555 !!

Clumsiness......

[scubascuba3]

19 minutes ago, Ralf001 said:

Typically they want confirmation of payment guarantee direct from the horses mouth and not some letter that could have been typed up by somchai the taxi drivers daughter.

 

FWiw, I had a mild stroke 10 years ago, presented to admissions at a large private hospital in Pattaya and the wheeled to ER.

I laid in an ER gurney for 7 hours with no treatment or assistance whilst the insurance company was deciding iff they would cover the bill or not.

 

A benefit of self insuring, can pay immediately if required, no 7 hour wait for stroke treatment, assuming self insurers have planned ahead

[nigelforbes]

3 minutes ago, scubascuba3 said:

A benefit of self insuring, can pay immediately if required, no 7 hour wait for stroke treatment, assuming self insurers have planned ahead

Nobody waits 7 hours for stroke treatment, that's scaremongering!

 

I self insured long before it was fashionable, the general consensus was that I was crazy for taking the risk, for many years I was an avid supporter. Today the attitude to self insurance is much softer. Now at 73 I pay for health insurance, why? Because at some point my ability to obtain a visa is likely to be linked to it and if I don't have it, I wont be able to stay here and that's an unacceptable risk. Plus, whilst I've always had plenty of cash and assets available to pay large bills, there's a risk in the future that I might not have enough and that will mean jeopardizing my wife's future......assets usually decrease over time whilst costs usually increase. Today I have a sum set aside for medical costs plus my wife understands that only government hospitals will be acceptable in an emergency. I also have a living will and a POA which limits the ability of the system to price gouge, if the health insurance fails.

[Damrongsak]

7 hours ago, Sheryl said:

Actually most government hospitals do not have this.  Hospitals are allowed to have tiered pricing but for most it is not worth the hassle. Only those lilocated in areas where they see a significant number of foreigners do this. 

I had no problems with the charges at Loei hospital a few months ago.  ER, one night stay, X-rays and a CT scan.  It was about 16K Baht but most was the CT scan.  All the other charges were cheap as chips.  I was told the CT scan was pricey and OK'd it.  I don't know what they charged for the bowl of jok and the hard boiled egg in the morning. 

[jacko45k]

14 minutes ago, nigelforbes said:

Because at some point my ability to obtain a visa is likely to be linked to it and if I don't have it, I wont be able to stay here and that's an unacceptable risk.

That is scaremongering too surely!

[scubascuba3]

16 minutes ago, nigelforbes said:

Nobody waits 7 hours for stroke treatment, that's scaremongering!

 

I self insured long before it was fashionable, the general consensus was that I was crazy for taking the risk, for many years I was an avid supporter. Today the attitude to self insurance is much softer. Now at 73 I pay for health insurance, why? Because at some point my ability to obtain a visa is likely to be linked to it and if I don't have it, I wont be able to stay here and that's an unacceptable risk. Plus, whilst I've always had plenty of cash and assets available to pay large bills, there's a risk in the future that I might not have enough and that will mean jeopardizing my wife's future......assets usually decrease over time whilst costs usually increase. Today I have a sum set aside for medical costs plus my wife understands that only government hospitals will be acceptable in an emergency. I also have a living will and a POA which limits the ability of the system to price gouge, if the health insurance fails.

i can see people being forced to wait, drug busters or the op are very expensive, insurers aren't going to approve before trying to find if they can deny claim. I reckon insurers are laughing, an easy game of looking for pre-existing even if not declared 

[nigelforbes]

Just now, jacko45k said:

That is scaremongering too surely!

Our collective experience with the O-A retirement visa insurance requirement suggests not.

[jacko45k]

21 minutes ago, nigelforbes said:

Our collective experience with the O-A retirement visa insurance requirement suggests not.

If you mean a retirement extension based on an O-A  entry yes that requires insurance. Based on an 'O'.. well it was rumoured (by nobody in a position to know), but still not obligated. (Nearly  4 years ago now.)

Edited February 18, 2023 by jacko45k

[thaibeachlovers]

12 hours ago, Elkski said:

But isn't it outrageous that they demanded 3000 pounds before providing pain meds.  Should be a crime.  Sure is a national disgrace.   I bet she can was in massive pain.  Such a sad story.  So nice people donate.  I have never looked on fo fund me. 

That's the reaction of those that don't realise that hospitals cost, A LOT, to run, and I'm assuming she isn't in a charity hospital. Hospitals have thousands of employees and suppliers that expect to be paid, medical equipment is hugely expensive, buildings require maintenance, lawyers and accountants get their cut etc etc etc.

That's why hospitals in LOS are run as a business, not a charity.

[thaibeachlovers]

11 minutes ago, jacko45k said:

That is scaremongering too surely!

No, that's reality.

[nigelforbes]

1 minute ago, jacko45k said:

If you mean a retirement extension base on an O-A  entry yes that requires insurance. Based on an 'O'.. well it was rumoured (by nobody in a position to know), but still not obligated. (Nearly  4 years ago now.)

I think we each need to take a view as to what the trend is and what the future might hold. Personally, I wouldn't want to get that guess wrong at age 75 because there is no plan B and you can't go back and change history.

[Ralf001]

36 minutes ago, nigelforbes said:

Nobody waits 7 hours for stroke treatment, that's scaremongering!

 

They seriously did make me wait.

The stroke was mild, full recovery within 12 months.

Edited February 18, 2023 by Ralf001

[nigelforbes]

1 minute ago, Ralf001 said:

you calling me a nobody ?

You said previously that it was a minor stroke, transient strokes are very common, we all experience them from time to time. I imagine the fact that today you presumably are not partially paralysed means the diagnosis was correct and that witing didn't cause you life changing injury.

[jerrymahoney]

24 minutes ago, scubascuba3 said:

I reckon insurers are laughing, an easy game of looking for pre-existing even if not declared 

I notice that you have used the phrase "I reckon" in several of your posts.

 

Reckon is very widely used in British English. It has the same meaning as ‘to think’. 'I reckon it will rain tomorrow.’

https://www.ecenglish.com/learnenglish/do-you-speak-british-english-10-new-vocab-words

 

To a Yank, what you reckon and what really is are not necessarily the same thing.

Edited February 18, 2023 by jerrymahoney

[Ralf001]

7 minutes ago, nigelforbes said:

You said previously that it was a minor stroke, transient strokes are very common, we all experience them from time to time. I imagine the fact that today you presumably are not partially paralysed means the diagnosis was correct and that witing didn't cause you life changing injury.

Was more than a TIA but not full blown stroke (friend had one of them.... 5 yrs later he is fubar still), Affected my RH side (leg/arm/face) but yes deemed non life threatening.

Fully recovered in 12 months except for speech, I now stutter and slur some words when talking.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Edited February 18, 2023 by Ralf001

[jacko45k]

14 minutes ago, nigelforbes said:

I think we each need to take a view as to what the trend is and what the future might hold. Personally, I wouldn't want to get that guess wrong at age 75 because there is no plan B and you can't go back and change history.

Whole other subject... I have never been obligated to buy insurance and after 18 years see no trend.  The topic is as to hospitals holding back treatment until they get their money, or while insurance companies umm and ahh over whether they will provide payment or cover. That is a reality... and likely a trend. 

[nigelforbes]

1 minute ago, jacko45k said:

Whole other subject... I have never been obligated to buy insurance and after 18 years see no trend.  The topic is as to hospitals holding back treatment until they get their money, or while insurance companies umm and ahh over whether they will provide payment or cover. That is a reality... and likely a trend. 

Good, you've taken your view and I've taken mine, we're doing opposite things. Let's chat again on this subject in five years and see which one of us has any regrets.

[thailand49]

8 hours ago, SABloke said:

No, not really. I just read "hearsay" in what I've read. Most of the article is poorly written. 

 

For the sake of clarity, besides the author of the article (and nobody else directly involved... apparently), what convinces you that somebody else is responsible for this crash?

What convince for the sake of clarity article are always written poorly. Who else involve? The motorbike rider going the wrong way took off lift her for dead.

We can always say it wasnt written well things were left reason so we assume no clarity so how is it so clear and convincing to you but to other it isn't? 

[scubascuba3]

1 hour ago, jerrymahoney said:

I notice that you have used the phrase "I reckon" in several of your posts.

 

Reckon is very widely used in British English. It has the same meaning as ‘to think’. 'I reckon it will rain tomorrow.’

https://www.ecenglish.com/learnenglish/do-you-speak-british-english-10-new-vocab-words

 

To a Yank, what you reckon and what really is are not necessarily the same thing.

i reckon is the same as I think, just a different way of putting it, basically saying I'm not 100% on this, but I reckon I'm right

[actonion]

On 2/17/2023 at 6:09 AM, Funkymover said:

And I thought the government pay , after all didn't they just say, they pay out over 400 million baht on tourists  medical bills and that's the reason for the new, 300 baht landing tax 

Today reports are saying this new  tourist tax is to also help businesses, Thais are worried it will help big businesses, and not the small  ones..!! 

[Sheryl]

6 hours ago, nigelforbes said:

That's good to know, I had read that they were given the ability to charge this way. The question is then, if they don't charge by tiers, how do they charge, is there a formula or relationship to Thai pricing?

Most government hospitals just charge 1 price, period. For all. Of course for most Thais, it is paid by one of the 3 systems that comprise thw universal health care system. 

 

But in Bangkok and other locations which see a significant number of foreigners many hospitals do charge more. I know that at Siriraj it is 25% more. 

 

 

[Olmate]

1 hour ago, jerrymahoney said:

I notice that you have used the phrase "I reckon" in several of your posts.

 

Reckon is very widely used in British English. It has the same meaning as ‘to think’. 'I reckon it will rain tomorrow.’

https://www.ecenglish.com/learnenglish/do-you-speak-british-english-10-new-vocab-words

 

To a Yank, what you reckon and what really is are not necessarily the same thing.

Reckoning is to calculate orestimate or sum up, as I get older I do it too much! 

[jerrymahoney]

28 minutes ago, scubascuba3 said:

i reckon is the same as I think, just a different way of putting it, basically saying I'm not 100% on this, but I reckon I'm right

So when you say:

 

* i reckon insurers as soon as someone  makes a claim they run around the office trying to find an undiagnosed pre-existing condition, it's an easy get out and high 5s all round the office

 

were you actually in the office and observed the high 5s all around or do you just reckon?

 

* https://aseannow.com/topic/1286249-medical-insurance-…wr-life……for-70-plus……your-experiencerecommendations/?do=findComment&comment=17898101

 

[Ralf001]

26 minutes ago, Sheryl said:

Most government hospitals just charge 1 price, period. For all. Of course for most Thais, it is paid by one of the 3 systems that comprise thw universal health care system. 

 

But in Bangkok and other locations which see a significant number of foreigners many hospitals do charge more. I know that at Siriraj it is 25% more. 

 

 

Hi Sheryl.

Slight thread hi-jack in regards to social security.

My recent stay in Phayathai Sriracha was cover by social security.

Google Phayatai I discover the "group" is actually a private company.

 

Any idea why a private hospital accepts social security patients ?

 

Edited February 18, 2023 by Ralf001

[Hummin]

21 minutes ago, Sheryl said:

Most government hospitals just charge 1 price, period. For all. Of course for most Thais, it is paid by one of the 3 systems that comprise thw universal health care system. 

 

But in Bangkok and other locations which see a significant number of foreigners many hospitals do charge more. I know that at Siriraj it is 25% more. 

 

 

I paid more at Hua Hin for VIP service, which gave me an assistant and jumped the ques together with other Vip customers, also Thais. Do not know how much more than normal price I paid, but still cheap.

[superal]

20 hours ago, bradiston said:

Regarding last sentence - there is, at least for UK citizens:

 

https://www.gov.uk/foreign-travel-advice/thailand/safety-and-security

 

But the overall tone of your slightly hysterical rant is like, none of this is her fault and Thailand has a duty of care to all its visitors, and how badly she's been treated/ripped off. Well that's as maybe, but as for Thai citizens footing the bill for this girl's oversight, well, would you stump up £40,000 in your own country for a visitor who got involved in an RTA? And the 300 THB levy hasn't yet come in, and is in no way supposed to replace private travel insurance. If you can afford to pay the 300 THB, which is spread across multiple agencies, you should be able to afford proper insurance for all your activities in your destination country. I hope she gets well soon, and home safely. Lesson learned, bruises healed.

 

 

First , thanks for the link which would be really benefcial to all travellers to Thailand if they could be made aware of , or given the link at the time of booking a flight or holiday to Thailand . You have missed the point that I made concerning the humanity issues , i.e. a badly injured person taken to a hospital which then refuses to administer possible life saving or life changing  medical aid , unless there is proof of adequate funds . Secondly the £40,000 bill is way over the top to treat a broken arm and lacerations . 

Its all about making money out of  foreigners . Even government hospital have a 3 tier billing scheme that is 1/ Thai patients 2/ non-Thai Asean patients 3/ non Asean foreigners . In my experience and also that of friends , if you are an in-patient you will probably be presented with a daily itemised bill which will even show the costs of minimal treatment e.g. nurse taking your temperature / blood pressure , all to drive up your bill .    

In summary it should be treatment first ( for accident & emergency treatment ) ,  reasonable costs for treatment to be agreed and maybe the patients passport held until payment in full has been made . 

Maybe mandatory holiday insurance could help , with drawing attention to activities which are not covered such as riding motor bikes etc . 

[superal]

17 hours ago, herfiehandbag said:

 

Nor in Chiang Rai.

 

I am 18 months into treatment for a badly poisoned foot caused by a puncture wound (rebar wire sticking out of the ground)

 

2 weeks in hospital and 2

operations to remove infected tissue cost B32000. I stumped up B20k on discharge, the balance paid in installments over several months. Amicably and easily arranged.

 

Currently my twice weekly visit for "dressing wound" costs me B50 a time - a Thai would pay B30.

 

The wound is slow to heal, as I am diabetic. For that reason my health insurance declined to pay.

 

The treatment is good, the facilities in my local hospital are adequate. Decor a bit tatty but so what.

 

Thais are covered by a range of schemes, ranging from the B30 basic through various degrees of work related social security up to full blown private insurance. Most treatments require some sort of co-payment. As a foreigner you are charged the "cost price" for treatment and medications. I haven't experienced any "gouging".

 

When my daughter had COVID, and I was waiting outside as she was treated before admission, a civil servant from the local Ministry of Public Health office approached me and demanded B10,000 up front (cash, a nice round figure!) as she "was a foreigner". I challenged that, pointing out that she was Thai (she has an English name). A senior nurse (who knows us) spoke to him, he beat a hasty retreat, and was not seen again. Whether that demand was "officially sanctioned" I very much doubt - no one from the hospital ever mentioned money whilst she was treated.

I guess that not all hospitals are hitting foreigners but my local ones do . Also some private doctors , in their walk in surgeries , will have a foreigners rate . Last year I had a lengthy eye test

in the local gov; hospital . I was sat next to a Thai lady all the way through the tests that we both had . Went for our prescriptions ( we had same eye drops ) . My bill 2200bt , hers 300 bt. 

BTW , you were asked for 10,000 baht up front . This goes to prove my point at hitting the foreigner with as much as possible if they can , not only hospitals but many commercial outlets

[Sheryl]

53 minutes ago, Ralf001 said:

Hi Sheryl.

Slight thread hi-jack in regards to social security.

My recent stay in Phayathai Sriracha was cover by social security.

Google Phayatai I discover the "group" is actually a private company.

 

Any idea why a private hospital accepts social security patients ?

 

It is up to the hospital. Some do, some do not. The most expensive hospitals  do not. 

 

Those that do, usually have a limit to how many SS recipients they will enroll and wait lists are common. If you have been able to nominate  Phyathai Sri Racha as your SS Hodpital you are very fortunate.

[Ralf001]

5 minutes ago, Sheryl said:

It is up to the hospital. Some do, some do not. The most expensive hospitals  do not. 

 

Those that do, usually have a limit to how many SS recipients they will enroll and wait lists are common. If you have been able to nominate  Phyathai Sri Racha as your SS Hodpital you are very fortunate.

Explains why I thought the place was decent for a government hospital !!

I did not know it was my SS hospital, HR Lady at work registered me there years ago apparently.