Yeh it's easy to sort out but the fact you even need to get a visa has always been the biggest turn off for me.

The place is just as cool as Thailand of not better.

9 hours ago, BritManToo said:

Marriage Visa is 5 years for 50usd, much more convenient than Thailand. 

Ah. So all you have to do to stay long-term in Vietnam is get married? You're right, that's much more convenient...

As for myself lm in Vietnam Now !,Its Visa runs monthly expensive each month HCMC & back pain in the as_$127 US via visa company,  lm heading back Philippines May up to 3 year renewal tourist visa 1st month free , extending 2 months = $60 US after move back onto 6 monthly visas o closest local immigration office island you reside fast cheap , no need put 800k Thai baht in bank account,  keep your money home country Big bonus English 2nd language same cost of living rent utilities etc,. Down side local Food is lousy,  fresh produce not or no where as good as Thai or Vn infrastructure,  but after residing all 3 countries prior Philippines is for me Visa access retired will go back live 7000+ Islands no shortage of beaches local girls nice easy talk with ( not talking about bar girls ) people are good WiFi up & down as you expect 7000+ island to service occasionally brown outs , As far living beach life suits me  Philippines where will stay ! Thai red tape for expats pain Philippines want you , go where lm wanted to stay upto 3 years on tourist visas renewal inside only leave 1 day every 3 years or if marry local Filipina can stay forever on marriage visa hassle free Bye Bye Vn on 2nd May back Philippines to stay ..

8 hours ago, scorecard said:

Vietnam hires better qualified English as a Second Language teachers and it's well known that in VN kids and adults are very keen to learn and pay attention.

 

I've seen this aspect in Bachelor and Masters programs (all in English) in 4 locations in VN, great students, apply themselves, ask geat questions, work handed in is excellent and on time.

English language proficiency is almost certainly a throw back to earlier occupation by the US, the same is true of Malaysia and Burma and its UK roots. Thailand hasn't had that luxury. 

Many tourists come to visit relatives who have retired here. Over the last 20 years (excluding Covid) I reckon I have averaged four a year.  If Thailand cherished its ex-pats we would not be having this debate.

1 hour ago, JayClay said:

Ah. So all you have to do to stay long-term in Vietnam is get married? You're right, that's much more convenient...

Most of us did it in Thailand, so why not in Vietnam?

I've lived in both. In BKK for a week right now getting a new visa for VN, and the traffic and noise and road user etiquette is light years ahead of the selfish, homocidal clowns on Vietnamese roads.

 

Almost everything is better in Thailand - food, weather, air quality, people, infrastructure, vacation destinations, etc etc.

 

Working in VN is painful - so much corruption and hoop jumping. Only to be treated like <deleted> (and cheated) by your employer. The students are, for the most part, alright.

 

HCMC and Hanoi are big, noisy, polluted, and in comparison to BKK, bland and backwards. The coastal cities are ok-ish, beaches ok-ish. Some nice natural scenery, if you survive the roads to get to these places.

 

VN is 15-20 years behing Thailand. And it is still a communist/socialist country, with pig-headed nationalism ever loitering. 

 

It's like a poor version of China, with mediocre food, sh1tty infrastructure, low pay, and no option to settle long-term, if you were foolish enough to make that choice.

 

On the upside, for every a$$clown there, there is a decent person, the COL is low, and there is some decent natural scenery.

 

I'm noping out of VN in the next 6-12 months. Too many better places/countries to  see and do. And I just can't handle the noise and near death I face every day as a road user.

36 minutes ago, BritManToo said:

Most of us did it in Thailand, so why not in Vietnam?

Who is "us"?

Once again is Thailand talking arrivals or tourists.?

1 hour ago, nigelforbes said:

English language proficiency is almost certainly a throw back to earlier occupation by the US, the same is true of Malaysia and Burma and its UK roots. Thailand hasn't had that luxury. 

Thailand hasn't had that luxury???? Thailand does not want any involvement from foreign countries in the past, present, and future....If there was an occupation by foreign countries, Thailand would be  very different...But now it can't go forward as they are stuck in the old fashion ways and unwillingness to change

The headline should more correctly read "Why Thailand has attracted more foreign tourists than Vietnam, according to just one random person"

10 hours ago, scorecard said:

I have no data but I suspect Thailand rates higher for the total numbers of easily available  'entertainment' girls. 

Gary Glitter didn't think so.

5 minutes ago, JayClay said:

Who is "us"?

Them folks under 50 yrs old, or less income than 800k a year.

 

And that's a lot, and why so many have departed since the Imm rules have been 'enforced'. 

 

Non issuing of income letter was the last straw for most, as simply couldn't met the financials ... income vs cash in hand, after child support & alimony deducted.

 

"SHOW ME THE MONEY" ...  ????

 

On Topic ... following YT'er Paddy Doyle, for a while, transitioning from TH to VN, can definitely see what SHTF stated above as true, and what I suspected with my readings of VN.

 

Main point for me would be infrastructure & roads.  As first week or so their, Doyle was stuck behind landslide after landslide.   Visa issues, how to legally stay.   Does seem to be cheaper, but you get what you pay for, and if hostel living, food & beer is your priority, then join the hippy dippy crowd that seem to be enjoying themselves there.

 

Problem with that is, past couple years, and the hippy dippy crowd is a bit skint, unless traveling on mommy & daddy's wallet.

 

From his vids, you technically aren't even allowed to drive a motorbike there.

Some lovely landscape though, along with even more pollution & trash than TH.

 

NO brainer for me, TH wins for SEA living, unless living out of your backpack on the cheap.  Not my vision of comfy retirement or holiday.

26 minutes ago, ikke1959 said:

Thailand hasn't had that luxury???? Thailand does not want any involvement from foreign countries in the past, present, and future....If there was an occupation by foreign countries, Thailand would be  very different...But now it can't go forward as they are stuck in the old fashion ways and unwillingness to change

They'll be going forward, just not dependent on US/EU/UK/NATO nations. 

 

BRICS & ASEAN, and learning Chinese will get you further, as a Thai than learning English.  Think TH has realized, tourist ฿฿฿ is nice, but something you can't depend on.

 

Commerce & trading partners takes the priority, for every day, month, yearly income, not hit & miss seasonal tourism, that drops with every other year's news-blip.

The visa exempt entry and wide range and number of direct flights are surely the 2 biggest factors.

23 minutes ago, ikke1959 said:

Thailand hasn't had that luxury???? Thailand does not want any involvement from foreign countries in the past, present, and future....

In the 30s about 12% of the population of Thailand were Chinese nationals, I would doubt any occupation has reached that level of involvement.

Yet expats still question the affinity between Thailand and China.

Vietnam does and will never have the same charm. Different history all different. Food, people, religion, Andaman sea+++ 

2 hours ago, nigelforbes said:

English language proficiency is almost certainly a throw back to earlier occupation by the US, the same is true of Malaysia and Burma and its UK roots. Thailand hasn't had that luxury. 

So many confused readers. Countries that are occupied by another country tend to adopt the language of that country, at least partially. Which is why French is widely spoken in North Vietnam, etc etc 

 

 

 

2 hours ago, nigelforbes said:

English language proficiency is almost certainly a throw back to earlier occupation by the US, the same is true of Malaysia and Burma and its UK roots. Thailand hasn't had that luxury. 

While I do think that foreign influence explains why these countries are a lot warmer to the idea of foreigners being in their country, and are aware of the benefit that they can provide, I don't think it quite holds true for English ability in Vietnam.

 

Obviously attitude to foreigners is going to be part of it, but if you mean it is like the Philippines where English is like a second language, I think the fact that the North were very anti-foreigner, literally drove the Americans out of the South, were ideologically anti-West/anti-capitalist in the time following, yet still have a good level of English and desire to improve disagrees.

 

I think it's more an issue of "Thai Supremacy" which is fairly pervasive in Thailand. There is more than a hint of a "Why should we speak some foreign language? Why should we listen to foreigners? We are Thais!" kind of attitude.

 

It's a shame because I think this holds Thailand back in many ways. Not least the progressive ideals that some of the youth seem to want to adopt. It has some advantages also, of course.

2 minutes ago, nigelforbes said:

So many confused readers. Countries that are occupied by another country tend to adopt the language of that country, at least partially. Which is why French is widely spoken in North Vietnam, etc etc

So why is English so widely spoken in North Vietnam?

51 minutes ago, KhunLA said:

Them folks under 50 yrs old, or less income than 800k a year.

So everybody living in Thailand who is under 50 got married in order to obtain a visa???

1 minute ago, BangkokReady said:

So why is English so widely spoken in North Vietnam?

Probably because French was largely superceded by English learned from the Americans in the south, after the French left, unsure. I dunno what's taught on schools there these days.

climate

2 hours ago, ikke1959 said:

Thailand hasn't had that luxury???? Thailand does not want any involvement from foreign countries in the past, present, and future....If there was an occupation by foreign countries, Thailand would be  very different...But now it can't go forward as they are stuck in the old fashion ways and unwillingness to change

 

Absolutely........baguettes being a prime example.

 

 

I am just back from a 2 week holiday in Vietnam (my 5th visit). I think that Vietnam has HUGE potential and IMO has a much broader and varied environment than Thailand. The development around Da Nang and Hoi An since my last, pre-Covid, visit is immense; high quality resorts, high rise hotels/condos and an infrastructure that Thailand couldn't hold a candle to. Danang beach road, for example, is a what Pattaya should have designed 30 odd years ago.

2 hours ago, ikke1959 said:

Thailand hasn't had that luxury???? Thailand does not want any involvement from foreign countries in the past, present, and future....If there was an occupation by foreign countries, Thailand would be  very different...But now it can't go forward as they are stuck in the old fashion ways and unwillingness to change

My use of the word luxury was sarcasm! That said, n we're both saying the same thing, it might have been better if they had been.

13 hours ago, scorecard said:

 

 

I have no data but I suspect Thailand rates higher for the total numbers of easily available  'entertainment' girls. 

 

 

12 years ago I arrived HCM with three females one evening. After I unpacked before everyone I decided to go out to the street. Within a minute a bike with a girl on back ask me if I was interested.

I brought it up as  it was so quick.

2 hours ago, JayClay said:

So everybody living in Thailand who is under 50 got married in order to obtain a visa???

If that's how you want to read it ... although, use of 'them folks ... And that's a lot' isn't all inclusive of <50 yr olds, unless you read that way.   UP2U

14 hours ago, BritManToo said:

As a Brit I get 14 days waiver on arrival.

As a Brit myself, and with respect, I get 15 days.

For reference, the list of countries which get "visa free" entry to Vietnam (USA, China, Australia and New Zealand are not listed)

 

No.	Country	Maximum visa-free duration	Applicable purpose of visit (if any)
1	Chile	90 days	Entries that do not include remunerated activities
2	Panama	90 days	Entries that do not include remunerated activities
3	Cambodia	30 days	Not mentioned
4	Indonesia	30 days	Not mentioned
5	Kyrgyzstan	30 days	Not mentioned
6	Laos	30 days	Not mentioned
7	Malaysia	30 days	Tourism, attending press, conference/coverage, official duty, visiting relatives, business negotiation, investment, sports, or attending seminars or conferences
8	Singapore	30 days	Entries that do not include remunerated activities
9	Thailand	30 days	Not mentioned
10	Philippines	21 days	Not mentioned
11	Brunei	14 days	Not mentioned
12	Myanmar	14 days	Visiting only
13	Belarus	15 days	Not mentioned
14	Denmark	15 days	Not mentioned
15	Finland	15 days	Not mentioned
13	France	15 days	Not mentioned
17	Germany	15 days	Not mentioned
18	Italy	15 days	Not mentioned
19	Japan	15 days	Not mentioned
20	Norway	15 days	Not mentioned
21	Russia	15 days	Not mentioned
22	South Korea	15 days	Not mentioned
23	Spain	15 days	Not mentioned
24	Sweden	15 days	Not mentioned
25	United Kingdom (Not applicable to BNO)	15 days

 

UK BN(O) citizens are permanent residents of Hong Kong who were British Overseas Territories citizens (formerly British Dependent Territories citizens) until 30 June 1997, and chose to remain British by registering for BN(O) citizenship when Hong Kong was a British overseas territory.

https://www.vietnam-visa.com/vietnam-visa-exemption/

If you are looking for a concrete jungle and easy women, Thailand.  That is what Thailand pushes. 

If you are looking to retire?  Thailand has to be the last on my list.

Thailand is a 3-6 month destination. 

Reads like an advert for TAT!