Russian and Chinese buyers push up property prices, forcing locals out of the market

[newnative]

13 minutes ago, hotchilli said:

No not really.

A shortage of properties drives up the price of available properties,

Thailand has a glut of empty properties, Thais are fleecing customers due to their predicament.

      Whether there is or isn't a vague and unspecified 'glut of empty properties', it does not determine what an individual property will sell for.  A 'glut' of something is only useful information if it is specific.  If there is a glut of unsold Chevy Malibus, that is useful information if one is in the market for a Malibu.   Not useful at all if one is shopping for a Corvette and there is a 6-month waiting list.   

    With real estate, the important question is this:  Is there a glut of the type of property you are selling or buying, in the location where you are selling or buying?   If there is an oversupply of X, at location Y, and not enough buyers of X, at location Y, then prices are not going to rise and there will be none of your 'fleecing'.  Supply and demand.  Also no fleecing with the reverse.   A buyer willingly buying something he or she wants at the price on offer is not being fleeced.  My partner and I like a certain suv model but we feel it is hugely over-priced in Thailand and we will buy something else when it's time to trade our suv.  If there are multiple selections on offer, the buyer has the choice to not buy a certain product.

     This morning on Facebook an agent posted for sale a 67 sqm 1 bedroom seaview foreign quota condo at Northpoint in Wong Amat for 9MB.  Someone commented that no buyer could be 'this stupid' to pay that much.  He pointed out that a smaller 1 bedroom at Cetus in Jomtien could be had for less.  The problem with his argument is Cetus is in Jomtien.  Not to mention other things that come into play, such as 1 bedroom unit sizes available and project amenities. 

    The main factor is a buyer looking for a large 1 bedroom seaview foreign quota condo in Wong Amat at a high-end project is likely not interested in what is for sale in Jomtien--or anywhere else.  The buyer will be dealing with supply and demand for that specific condo type--seaview 1 bedroom of a minimum size in foreign quota in a high-end project-- in that specific area, Wong Amat.   I could never get Leaver to understand this.  The Facebook poster criticizing the Northpoint price needs to educate himself on what the supply and demand is for seaview foreign quota 1 bedroom condos in Wong Amat in high-end projects.  He will find that supply is limited and demand is increasing now that Thailand has opened up again.  

[rabiedabruce]

1 hour ago, BangkokReady said:

Surely if all sellers put the prices up, and don't really care if they don't sell, then it is price fixing without competition and therefore not "market rates"?

Thailand doesn't do 'competition'. Who are all those 7/11s, Lotuss/Big Cs owned by. There was also a plan for him to open pharmacies alongside 7/11s forcing out all the small businesses, according to my pharmacist. Don't know what happened to that. I never buy anything belonging to his outlets anyway.

[Phuket Pete]

Sounds like a Property Agent trying to talk up a quiet market to me ! 

Edited March 30, 2023 by Phuket Pete

[xylophone]

On 3/29/2023 at 10:03 AM, Eloquent pilgrim said:

 

Incorrect, in my case at least. I have a 30 year lease which was scrutinised in fine detail by a very good, English speaking solicitor.

 

It has an option for two further renewals, but it is not a 90 year lease; if it is not renewed after 30 years, it is terminated.

 

Of course, it is only legal as the law stands at present, and I accepted when I invested that the law could change in the future, and that I will have to wear any change on the chin.

30+30+30 year leases have been ruled invalid by a Thai court, as has been posted, and if your "agreement" states this renewable option, then I fear that is also invalid.........I sincerely hope not for your sake, but then again you have said that you are prepared to "take any change on the chin" so you are prepared for such an event. Good luck.

[Dogsredrocket]

On 3/29/2023 at 6:54 AM, ChipButty said:

Get yourself a good lawyer he will show you how, 

Assuming that the lawyer doesn't end up making the purchase in their own name which has happened before. There is no safe way to buy landed property in this country as a foreigner. End of Story.

[Dogsredrocket]

11 hours ago, bangkok19 said:

The same thing been happening here in Sydney for years (pre Covid).

Wealthy Chinese buying houses and apartments, many just left empty as an investment.

The aforementioned,  as well as the easy money (very low interest rates) have driven up prices!

You aren't allowed to say that though. Racist!!!!!! reeeee

[freedomnow]

On 3/29/2023 at 4:03 AM, Eloquent pilgrim said:

 

Incorrect, in my case at least. I have a 30 year lease which was scrutinised in fine detail by a very good, English speaking solicitor.

 

It has an option for two further renewals, but it is not a 90 year lease; if it is not renewed after 30 years, it is terminated.

 

Of course, it is only legal as the law stands at present, and I accepted when I invested that the law could change in the future, and that I will have to wear any change on the chin.

Is that the method of Usufruct, or a different structure ?

Thanks.

[Chongalulu]

8 hours ago, BangkokReady said:

Surely if all sellers put the prices up, and don't really care if they don't sell, then it is price fixing without competition and therefore not "market rates"?

If they don’t sell then there’s effectively no price fixing because nothing is sold ! Market prices is what property sells at !
And your scenario simply doesn’t happen in the real world. The developers would go bust without sales. ????‍♂️ 

[maddox41]

Not a issue if your married ???? to a thai. 

A expat that lived in Thailand for 40 yrs told me 20 yrs ago 

Never ever buy property in Thailand. 

 As  i know  first hand with property as i worked in real estate in Thailand  if its not sinking leaning cracking or even above ground in 5 yrs  you lucky ???? 

The workmanship  is poor the price is high and you basically paying for the land that you dont own .. 

So keep your property in your western country rent or leave it but keep it as  it will return a good profit and will still be standing in 50 yrs. 

I Rent and after 12 months if the place starts to fall apart or  if i dont like the neighbours the area or just bored  i pick and move to another  place 

I get 60k  Aud returns PA on my property  in Australia  so i use that to rent and you l can live in a nice place  for  that  and still have my places in oz its a win win  no losses no drama if the <deleted> hits the fan in Thailand  not if but when or they  decide to change the rules 

You still have something  

[BangkokReady]

33 minutes ago, nchuckle said:

If they don’t sell then there’s effectively no price fixing because nothing is sold ! Market prices is what property sells at !
And your scenario simply doesn’t happen in the real world. The developers would go bust without sales. ????‍♂️ 

So, if the prices are going up, then we have to conclude that there is more demand than there is supply?

[BE88]

When did you pay the agency fee on a newspaper you are ?

 

Surely I believe everything that Knight Frank says????

[Adumbration]

On 3/29/2023 at 3:43 AM, Enoon said:

 

I think "locals" refers to local plutocrats, politicians, criminals and military.

 

 

All your above mentioned Thais are mostly where they are due to connections and corruption, and not because of intellect.  Nonetheless they are smart enough to not get ripped off in the Phuket property market.

[CrunchWrapSupreme]

Granted there's no oceanfront views, but lovely views of the surrounding mountains out here in Issan, which would be great for a rooftop balcony, sunsets, and stars. Prices have fallen during Covid and haven't picked up since. Wife's been eyeing 4 rai on a main road, electric access, 800k baht. Then just 1-2m for a decent house. I like those numbers.

 

Thais who weathered the storm during Covid, some we hear back from working abroad, are now taking advantage of the situation, with rows of trucks hauling in the dirt upon which to build.

[zzaa09]

On 3/28/2023 at 3:53 PM, hotchilli said:

Russians and Chinese are not pushing up the price of property.

There has been a glut of empty residences since Covid.

Property developers and sellers are gouging the market.

.....and only applies to city and Farang Ghetto locales. 

[Chongalulu]

On 3/30/2023 at 7:07 AM, hotchilli said:

Nor me with yours.

end of subject.

I’ll leave you to willful ignorance then..

[Chongalulu]

17 hours ago, BangkokReady said:

So, if the prices are going up, then we have to conclude that there is more demand than there is supply?

I don’t think you’ve grasped quite how supply and demand work. There’s a balancing mechanism,usually in the form of pricing. It’s reasonable to assume that as demand picks up (due to ending of Covid restrictions and more Russian buyers ) then prices will have recovered from the lows during the depths of the pandemic . It’s really not that difficult…

[hotchilli]

13 minutes ago, nchuckle said:

I’ll leave you to willful ignorance then..

That's almost a personal attack... which is against posting rules., take easy.

I just share a different view to you which I have stated.

But I haven't gone as low as you to insult you!!!!!

[Chongalulu]

1 minute ago, hotchilli said:

That's almost a personal attack... which is against posting rules., take easy.

I just share a different view to you which I have stated.

But I haven't gone as low as you to insult you!!!!!

I haven’t insulted you,I’ve simply pointed out the lack of understanding of the established facts  in your comments relating to the workings of supply and demand and your continued wish not to address those shortcomings,for which the correct term is indeed 'willful ignorance'. And I’ve accepted your position by leaving you to it. 
You say  that I need to 'take it easy' ? I’m calm enough not to insert 5 exclamation marks at the end of my comment …

[Chongalulu]

On 3/30/2023 at 11:50 AM, newnative said:

      Whether there is or isn't a vague and unspecified 'glut of empty properties', it does not determine what an individual property will sell for.  A 'glut' of something is only useful information if it is specific.  If there is a glut of unsold Chevy Malibus, that is useful information if one is in the market for a Malibu.   Not useful at all if one is shopping for a Corvette and there is a 6-month waiting list.   

    With real estate, the important question is this:  Is there a glut of the type of property you are selling or buying, in the location where you are selling or buying?   If there is an oversupply of X, at location Y, and not enough buyers of X, at location Y, then prices are not going to rise and there will be none of your 'fleecing'.  Supply and demand.  Also no fleecing with the reverse.   A buyer willingly buying something he or she wants at the price on offer is not being fleeced.  My partner and I like a certain suv model but we feel it is hugely over-priced in Thailand and we will buy something else when it's time to trade our suv.  If there are multiple selections on offer, the buyer has the choice to not buy a certain product.

     This morning on Facebook an agent posted for sale a 67 sqm 1 bedroom seaview foreign quota condo at Northpoint in Wong Amat for 9MB.  Someone commented that no buyer could be 'this stupid' to pay that much.  He pointed out that a smaller 1 bedroom at Cetus in Jomtien could be had for less.  The problem with his argument is Cetus is in Jomtien.  Not to mention other things that come into play, such as 1 bedroom unit sizes available and project amenities. 

    The main factor is a buyer looking for a large 1 bedroom seaview foreign quota condo in Wong Amat at a high-end project is likely not interested in what is for sale in Jomtien--or anywhere else.  The buyer will be dealing with supply and demand for that specific condo type--seaview 1 bedroom of a minimum size in foreign quota in a high-end project-- in that specific area, Wong Amat.   I could never get Leaver to understand this.  The Facebook poster criticizing the Northpoint price needs to educate himself on what the supply and demand is for seaview foreign quota 1 bedroom condos in Wong Amat in high-end projects.  He will find that supply is limited and demand is increasing now that Thailand has opened up again.  

I’ve also tried to explain these basics of supply and demand to the same poster …. to no avail . He prefers not to understand,nor answer the questions I put to him,preferring an entrenched narrative of 'gouging'. This is of course simply willful ignorance which I said I’d leave him to . Now he’s upset ! ???? 

[BangkokReady]

47 minutes ago, nchuckle said:

I don’t think you’ve grasped quite how supply and demand work. There’s a balancing mechanism,usually in the form of pricing. It’s reasonable to assume that as demand picks up (due to ending of Covid restrictions and more Russian buyers ) then prices will have recovered from the lows during the depths of the pandemic . It’s really not that difficult…

Are you sure this is "supply and demand"?  Do you have a source on that?

 

What I'm seeing says that price decides demand.

[zzaa09]

1 hour ago, nchuckle said:

I’ll leave you to willful ignorance then..

A trait that appears to be all too common amongst these particular forum tribes.

 

[Chongalulu]

32 minutes ago, BangkokReady said:

Are you sure this is "supply and demand"?  Do you have a source on that?

 

What I'm seeing says that price decides demand.

Which is indeed part of supply and demand. If you reduce prices significantly you will sell more - which is fine in a manufacturing scenario and you have been able to maintain margins by reduced costs and can simply increase production . (The shift of manufacturing to low labour cost China is a perfect illustration). But if there is a limited/finite supply of product ,such as in property then your objective is to maximize the price you can achieve while still achieving a sale. 
id suggest a Google search to inform yourself more widely of the workings 

[hotchilli]

1 hour ago, nchuckle said:

I haven’t insulted you,I’ve simply pointed out the lack of understanding of the established facts  in your comments relating to the workings of supply and demand and your continued wish not to address those shortcomings,for which the correct term is indeed 'willful ignorance'. And I’ve accepted your position by leaving you to it. 
You say  that I need to 'take it easy' ? I’m calm enough not to insert 5 exclamation marks at the end of my comment …

And I have not called you "willfully ignorant" [which is an insult] just because you share a different view.

End of subject.

[Chongalulu]

2 minutes ago, hotchilli said:

And I have not called you "willfully ignorant" [which is an insult] just because you share a different view.

End of subject.

If you’re going to use quotation marks you have to use the actual quotation- which was 'willful ignorance' (yes there IS a difference) not reword it to suit your narrative. I haven’t "called you" anything,simply recognized your choice to continue to adopt that position . "I’ll leave you to [ it]. " 

And what does "End of subject" (which you’ve concluded with  twice)actually mean? 

[William C F Pierce]

On 3/29/2023 at 12:42 AM, mikebell said:

Yet foreigners may only legally own condos?  How do they buy villas?

They purchase a 30 year lease as they can't buy freehold property.

[Dogsredrocket]

13 hours ago, William C F Pierce said:

They purchase a 30 year lease as they can't buy freehold property.

And are at the whim of the actual landholder despite whatever "contract" they have.

[Dazkkk]

On 3/29/2023 at 1:57 AM, Eloquent pilgrim said:

I own my villa that I bought 4 years ago. It is in my own name, but of course, I cannot own the land; however, I have the land on a 30 year lease, in my name, which is renewable for another two terms of 30 years. I also have an inheritance clause in the house deed, and the land lease, which is also important.

Only renewable if the land owner agrees to it. Any lease longer than 30years is illegal. Find a different lawyer. ????

[JimTripper]

 

[Rayafa]

On 3/29/2023 at 4:59 AM, thaibeachlovers said:

One does wonder how many of the Russians are that rich though. The ones I saw in Pattaya didn't look very rich.

What should a rich Russian look like in your opinion? Should he have gold-plated shorts and Swarovski crystals on his T-shirt??
For example, I am not rich. But no one ever approached me in Pattaya and asked if it was true that your Missoni shorts cost 600 euros?? Nobody pays any attention to them.