“Pragmatism” will clash with “idealism” in Thai elections

[snoop1130]

 

Four starving men trudge across a vast desert with just one piece of bread left. Sharing it and nobody will die first or immediately, but most likely they all will die afterwards. The only chance for anyone to survive long enough to get past the desert is for that person to be given the whole bread.

 

At the expense of the other three, of course.

 

Pheu Thai is reportedly in favour of the “one survivor” scenario. Former red-shirt warrior Jatuporn Prompan calls that selfish, but some others may describe it as pragmatism. The party’s allies, for obvious reasons, prefer idealism even if that might lead to the whole bunch ending up once again in the opposition bloc.

 

Full Story: https://www.thaipbsworld.com/pragmatism-will-clash-with-idealism-in-thai-elections/

 

-- © Copyright Thai PBS 2023-03-31

 

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[OneMoreFarang]

5 minutes ago, snoop1130 said:

Pheu Thai is reportedly in favour of the “one survivor” scenario.

Yeah, sure. Thaksin survives and gets all.

Give the others a few crumbs.

And people vote for that. Amazing Thailand.

[Tropicalevo]

“Pragmatism” will clash with “idealism” in Thai elections

 

Sorry. That is a silly concept.

In elections in Thailand, money conquers all.

[smedly]

Future Forward and PT get together - Prauth Prawit Anitin are ###

 

 

if that happenes expect coup No22 and all out civil war - the people will not put up with that, these self appointed unelected ## are done, lets have people that are elected by the people running the country - they can do it - Future Forward and P Thai, a new begining hopefuly

[zzaa09]

1 hour ago, smedly said:

Future Forward and PT get together - Prauth Prawit Anitin are ###

 

 

if that happenes expect coup No22 and all out civil war - the people will not put up with that, these self appointed unelected ## are done, lets have people that are elected by the people running the country - they can do it - Future Forward and P Thai, a new begining hopefuly

Even the desperate and soured cynic that I might be, the above comment could be taken in agreement. 

[RichardColeman]

Idealism vs The Army - no contest

[hotchilli]

2 hours ago, smedly said:

Future Forward and PT get together - Prauth Prawit Anitin are ###

 

 

if that happenes expect coup No22 and all out civil war - the people will not put up with that, these self appointed unelected ## are done, lets have people that are elected by the people running the country - they can do it - Future Forward and P Thai, a new begining hopefuly

I'm with you on that, FFP and PTP  consolidate.. 

wipe the board clean of all the rubbish.

[bannork]

If Pheua Thai need to make up the numbers to form a government, I don't think they will choose MF as a partner and I'm not sure MF would accept.

MF's stance on Article 112 is unacceptable to PT, they're too radical for PT who have a lot of veteran MPs devoid of any idealism. 

Plus if MF were in government, they would have some achievements by the end of the Parliamentary term. PT wouldn't like that considering both parties are trying to appeal to the young. 

PT would rather keep MF on the Opposition benches, barking but impotent regarding tangible achievements

I think PT would choose Bhumjaithai as a partner, the only clash could be over cannabis but if they pass the bong around they could probably reach an agreement.

MF are not going to win so many seats this time with the new voting system, plus there are quarrels regarding strategy. Piyabutr wants MF to project an ideology, focus on creating its own identity,  whilst the leader, Pitak, is more flexible, prepared to compromise to be in government. 

There are pros and cons to each viewpoint. 

Edited April 1, 2023 by bannork

[zzaa09]

8 hours ago, hotchilli said:

I'm with you on that, FFP and PTP  consolidate.. 

wipe the board clean of all the rubbish.

Though, a true cleansing might take quite the collective effort.......and struggle.

[bannork]

13 hours ago, hotchilli said:

I'm with you on that, FFP and PTP  consolidate.. 

wipe the board clean of all the rubbish.

There is no FFP these days 

  Now they are the MFP, sadly a lot weaker than the banned FFP.

There's a lot of rubbish in PTP, MPs devoid of any idealism.

 

[hotchilli]

6 hours ago, bannork said:

There is no FFP these days 

  Now they are the MFP, sadly a lot weaker than the banned FFP.

There's a lot of rubbish in PTP, MPs devoid of any idealism.

 

Agreed, the PTP has a lot of clout which is useful, and the MFP would bring in the new ideas.

Together they could achieve something.

[2baht]

“Pragmatism” will clash with “idealism” in Thai elections

 

As usual "realism" is nowhere to be seen! ????

[2baht]

2 hours ago, hotchilli said:

Together they could achieve something.

.................until the next coup!

[hotchilli]

31 minutes ago, 2baht said:

.................until the next coup!

To be honest if Thailand has another military coup it would kill Thailand in the face of the rest of the world.

Trade and tourism would shrink to the point where Thailand would cripple itself.

It would set them back decades.

[2baht]

1 hour ago, hotchilli said:

It would set them back decades.

Does the prevailing culture not do that already? ????

[hotchilli]

26 minutes ago, 2baht said:

Does the prevailing culture not do that already? ????

Indeed it does, which is why another coup would devastate an already ailing economy and country.

Twenty years ago you could say Thailand was starting to emerge from the dark ages, and was becoming a player in Asia and further afield.

However the culture in Thailand meant that that was hijacked by rich families and influential people who while trying to grab power and wealth have systematically sent Thailand into constant turmoil and sliding back into the dark ages.

Not forgetting the rampant and endemic corruption which blights all aspects of doing business in Thailand.

[zzaa09]

49 minutes ago, hotchilli said:

To be honest if Thailand has another military coup it would kill Thailand in the face of the rest of the world.

Trade and tourism would shrink to the point where Thailand would cripple itself.

It would set them back decades.

Sounds good in theory, but history will tell you that every/any coup rarely has any such effect on trade or tourism. 

[Tarteso]

Pragmatism, Idealism..First of all, someone will have to explain to the voters the meaning of these words for their understanding.

[zzaa09]

Cronyism

Corruption[ism]

[hotchilli]

1 hour ago, zzaa09 said:

Sounds good in theory, but history will tell you that every/any coup rarely has any such effect on trade or tourism. 

Military intervention into politics is wearing thin globally.

People are getting sick or authoritarianism.

If Thailand had another coup I really do think the people would stand up and fight this time.

No more 8 years of an un-elected PM

 

[bannork]

2 hours ago, hotchilli said:

Military intervention into politics is wearing thin globally.

People are getting sick or authoritarianism.

If Thailand had another coup I really do think the people would stand up and fight this time.

No more 8 years of an un-elected PM

 

Some countries are outright authoritarian:  China, Russia, Iran, Laos, Vietnam, others are more subtle, there are multi party elections but money is key to attracting MPs and passing laws to protect big business. The monopoly in the alcohol business in Thailand for example 

And how many poor or even average income MPs are there in Thailand? 

I remember the excitement of the 1997 Constitution here in Thailand. There really did seem to be solid checks and balances against abuse of power. Intelligent people like Dr Surin were in office, it looked like Thailand could start to fulfill its potential. Could politics attract those genuinely wishing to serve the country?

Thaksin had a great chance with his election victory but rather than bringing in young and talented blood, he set about amassing all power around himself. He bought up the entire NAP ( over 80 MPs) bar one man, he explained to journalists that politics is like business, a monopoly is best, as in the early days of his dominance of the mobile phone market.

Eliminate the opposition. 

Many academics, NGOs who had initially supported Thaksin seeing him as an example of the new generation of tech savvy businessmen, turned away, disappointed. 

No one could compete with Thaksin's money, a new type of corruption emerged, policy corruption. No need for the old and clumsy method of suitcases stuffed with cash, rather by the sheer size of his majority, Thaksin could change laws to benefit his and his cronies' businesses 

The sheer dominance of Thaksin over PT makes its claim to be a democratic party, laughable. If Thaksin died tomorrow, the party would collapse, splintering off I to different factions.

Supporters of PT will say PT won successive elections, the will of the people must be respected. True, but please don't expect much progress regarding economic equality, justice for all, government transparency, etc. Big business and Thaksin go hand in hand.

Imo, the only party worth voting for is MF, six more years until the former three leading members of FF can play a public role again 

Now they were formidable 

 

[hotchilli]

13 minutes ago, bannork said:

Some countries are outright authoritarian:  China, Russia, Iran, Laos, Vietnam, others are more subtle, there are multi party elections but money is key to attracting MPs and passing laws to protect big business. The monopoly in the alcohol business in Thailand for example 

And how many poor or even average income MPs are there in Thailand? 

I remember the excitement of the 1997 Constitution here in Thailand. There really did seem to be solid checks and balances against abuse of power. Intelligent people like Dr Surin were in office, it looked like Thailand could start to fulfill its potential. Could politics attract those genuinely wishing to serve the country?

Thaksin had a great chance with his election victory but rather than bringing in young and talented blood, he set about amassing all power around himself. He bought up the entire NAP ( over 80 MPs) bar one man, he explained to journalists that politics is like business, a monopoly is best, as in the early days of his dominance of the mobile phone market.

Eliminate the opposition. 

Many academics, NGOs who had initially supported Thaksin seeing him as an example of the new generation of tech savvy businessmen, turned away, disappointed. 

No one could compete with Thaksin's money, a new type of corruption emerged, policy corruption. No need for the old and clumsy method of suitcases stuffed with cash, rather by the sheer size of his majority, Thaksin could change laws to benefit his and his cronies' businesses 

The sheer dominance of Thaksin over PT makes its claim to be a democratic party, laughable. If Thaksin died tomorrow, the party would collapse, splintering off I to different factions.

Supporters of PT will say PT won successive elections, the will of the people must be respected. True, but please don't expect much progress regarding economic equality, justice for all, government transparency, etc. Big business and Thaksin go hand in hand.

Imo, the only party worth voting for is MF, six more years until the former three leading members of FF can play a public role again 

Now they were formidable 

 

You obviously know your Thai history and that of it's politicians.

[NoshowJones]

On 3/31/2023 at 7:24 PM, OneMoreFarang said:

Yeah, sure. Thaksin survives and gets all.

Give the others a few crumbs.

And people vote for that. Amazing Thailand.

A few crumbs is a lot more than all the lies and deceit the unelected caretaker PM ever gave the ordinary Thai people.

[NoshowJones]

5 hours ago, zzaa09 said:

Sounds good in theory, but history will tell you that every/any coup rarely has any such effect on trade or tourism. 

But is it not mostly in recent years, especially before the last coup that Thailand was doing very well with tourism? I do know that tourism was really going down in the two or three years before the pandemic, and it was the soldiers and their immigration issues that was mostly responsible for that.

[trainman34014]

7 hours ago, hotchilli said:

To be honest if Thailand has another military coup it would kill Thailand in the face of the rest of the world.

Trade and tourism would shrink to the point where Thailand would cripple itself.

It would set them back decades.

Ah yes; just what the Army and the Meg Rich want.  They have no desire to change things for the better as they are very happy plundering the Coffers whilst dragging the people back 200 years !

[StayinThailand2much]

On 3/31/2023 at 8:53 PM, Tropicalevo said:

“Pragmatism” will clash with “idealism” in Thai elections

 

Sorry. That is a silly concept.

In elections in Thailand, money conquers all.

I wonder, whether there is even a word in the Thai language for 'pragmatism'.

 

But, yes, as I always say: "Thailand is a 'Buddhist' country. It's all about the money..."

[zzaa09]

9 hours ago, hotchilli said:

Military intervention into politics is wearing thin globally.

People are getting sick or authoritarianism.

If Thailand had another coup I really do think the people would stand up and fight this time.

No more 8 years of an un-elected PM

 

The authoritarianism comes in the same form whether a civilian or military-inspired coup govt. 

The most amazing paradox is seen through the population and their everyday lifestyles - regardless of standing government in place. Still remain independent, free and self-sufficient regardless of said government. Been of this nature for decades under the supposed [and mythological] repressive political machine or the same under the elected civilian democratic variety. Simple observations over the years and a better understanding of several decades of history will show you that the population has never been repressed under the mythological strains of this textbook authoritarianism. 

 

 

Most [outside] critics aren't truly observant as to everyday way of getting on. 

 

 

Edited April 2, 2023 by zzaa09