Make peace, not war The Kremlin’s internal polling shows that more than half of Russians now favor negotiations with Ukraine, while only a quarter want to continue the invasion

[Vlad66777]

3 minutes ago, Credo said:

You got all the right wing ideology down pat, it's just the truth that evades you.

This is your confusion and chaos in the brain. Do you think that information from sources that are banned in Russia and which, according to the Russian authorities, are funded by the Americans, is true. Then I ask you to quote more often information from Russian sources that are prohibited in the United States. But of course you won't. Because for you, the truth is only what the BBC or CNN will write the news. Great logic, congratulations.

[Credo]

4 minutes ago, Vlad66777 said:

This is your confusion and chaos in the brain. Do you think that information from sources that are banned in Russia and which, according to the Russian authorities, are funded by the Americans, is true. Then I ask you to quote more often information from Russian sources that are prohibited in the United States. But of course you won't. Because for you, the truth is only what the BBC or CNN will write the news. Great logic, congratulations.

There are no Russian sources that are prohibited in the US.  Again, you are posting false information without substantiation.  

 

[tgw]

11 minutes ago, Vlad66777 said:

 information from sources that are banned in Russia

this bit alone greatly increases the chances of truthfulness !

lol

 

11 minutes ago, Vlad66777 said:

I ask you to quote more often information from Russian sources that are prohibited in the United States.

and this will be difficult, as anyone is free to quote any source of information (but not on this forum)

 

 

Edited April 23, 2023 by tgw

[Vlad66777]

2 minutes ago, tgw said:

free financial advice: I'm not optimistic for the value of real estate in Ruzzia (don't complain about my use of your President's favorite non-Ruzzian character)

Thanks for the advice. But I'm not sure you have a million dollar apartment with a sea view in Dubai, but I do.
And I doubt that under your sofa is an alarming suitcase with cash for five apartments in Pattaya. And I'm not sure that you managed to bury a few kilograms of gold under the oak. Since you were probably busy with more important things, you jumped and jumped at this time on the Maidan.
So your advice is in the wrong place. I foresaw what is happening in the world now, 10 years ago.

[Scott]

A post making unsubstantiated claims has been removed.  If you are making factual assertions, then back them up with a link or they will be removed.  Continued unsubstantiated claims could result in a suspension.

[Credo]

@Vlad66777 I suggest you watch "Putin's palace. The story of the world's biggest bribe".  It's filed by Russians and in Russia.  

 

 

[tgw]

I'm not sure what your "information" is supposed to prove nor what your point is.

Simonyan is a war monger, a Kremlin propaganda mouthpiece and a liar. She's a piece in Putin's war machine and rightfully sanctioned for that reason.

Russian state TV spews lies.

Asking for equal treatment of Ruzzian media and Western media is without merit, because there is no equivalence. Ruzzian state media does not broadcast journalistic content about the war in Ukraine.

Edited April 23, 2023 by tgw

[gargamon]

As if Putin cares what the Russian people think. Like all autocratic nations the wants of the population mean nothing. 

[Jingthing]

On 4/6/2023 at 9:06 PM, Denim said:

There can be no meaningful negotiations until Russia withdraws all its troops from Ukrainian territory.

 

Until this fundamental requirement is met the war will continue , more to the detriment of Russia than Ukraine.

Including and especially Crimea

[thaibeachlovers]

On 4/6/2023 at 9:21 PM, xylophone said:

The problem being that Russia will want to negotiate on its terms only, and that would include keeping any gains they may have made, as well as the other parts of Ukraine which they invaded a while back.

 

And I don't see why Ukraine has to have "any wins big enough to be able to get back to the negotiating table" when it is their country and IMO the worst possible scenario would be to go back to the status quo of a couple of years ago

Does anyone think Russia would offer to get nothing in exchange for an end to the war? Of course they will want to keep what they currently have in exchange for not destroying even more of Ukraine.

 

Without any big wins by Ukraine, why would Russia be persuaded to negotiate? For Russia to just repel an offensive by Ukraine would be seen in Russia as a victory, IMO.

 

Meanwhile, Ukraine is getting destroyed bit by bit, not Russia, so they have more to gain by negotiating an end to the war.

 

IMO, the end of this war will happen when one side is unable to continue ( without any change in the status quo re western direct intervention ), given they both have said they won't negotiate.

[onthedarkside]

A thread clean up has been made removing a number of posts;

 

Commenting on moderation.

Russian Language post

Unsubstantiated claims

Derogatory comments

Off topic trolling

 

Replies to above also removed.

[Lacessit]

2 hours ago, thaibeachlovers said:

 

Meanwhile, Ukraine is getting destroyed bit by bit, not Russia, so they have more to gain by negotiating an end to the war.

 

 

Russia is being destroyed too, just not as visibly. Politically, economically, and militarily.

 

Politically, it's a pariah state. It's reduced to begging for ammunition and missiles from the North Koreans, of all people.

 

Economically, no-one is going to trust it as a supplier for a long time. The EU oil and gas market was 70% of its export income. Replacing that income with Chinese and Indian buyers has huge logistical problems, as well as those countries screwing the Russians on price. Most of the Western companies who operated in Russia have departed, Russia's domestic aircraft system will become a lottery as to whether a passenger gets to their destination intact.

 

Militarily, there are few countries that will buy Russian armaments after seeing how easily the equipment is being destroyed on the battlefield in Ukraine. Who is going to want military advisers, when the command structure has been shown to be so incompetent? The reputational damage is massive.

 

IMO Russia will either become a failed state, or a vassal of China. The Chinese probably can't believe their luck, cheap fossil fuel and free lessons on how not to invade a country.

 

The real tragedy for ordinary Russians is it should be one of the most well-off countries, even with endemic corruption. Instead, it is being led back into Cold War privations by a single man, obsessed with restoring an empire which is in the dustbin of history.

 

 

 

 

[Jingthing]

6 hours ago, Vlad66777 said:

This is your confusion and chaos in the brain. Do you think that information from sources that are banned in Russia and which, according to the Russian authorities, are funded by the Americans, is true. Then I ask you to quote more often information from Russian sources that are prohibited in the United States. But of course you won't. Because for you, the truth is only what the BBC or CNN will write the news. Great logic, congratulations.

Reads like satire.

[Lacessit]

1 hour ago, Jingthing said:

Reads like satire.

I suspect Vlad66777 won't be posting for a while, if at all.

[vandeventer]

Only the Russian people could stop this invasion. The more Putin drafts it's people and the closer Ukraine missiles comes to inner Russian cities, the sooner this ends. Making Putin and other war criminals pay for their crimes may be very hard to do.

[ozimoron]

Just now, vandeventer said:

Only the Russian people could stop this invasion. The more Putin drafts it's people and the closer Ukraine missiles comes to inner Russian cities, the sooner this ends. Making Putin and other war criminals pay for their crimes may be very hard to do.

Western weapons and Ukrainian soldiers will and are stopping this invasion. They are about to engage on a spring offensive. Russians are literally digging fortifications in Crimea. What does that tell you about their opinion?

[Lacessit]

1 hour ago, vandeventer said:

Only the Russian people could stop this invasion. The more Putin drafts it's people and the closer Ukraine missiles comes to inner Russian cities, the sooner this ends. Making Putin and other war criminals pay for their crimes may be very hard to do.

Putin will never be able to move outside Russia again, except maybe to China. The threat of arrest or assassination with a long rifle is too real.

 

Russians should be students of their WWII history. If it was not for the Arctic convoys from the West, and the threats of a second front there, it is highly probable Hitler would have overrun Russia.

 

 Putin might not know it; however, he is fighting a war on two fronts, just as Hitler did. The Molotov-Ribbentrop peace accord  demonstrated the reliability of such agreements between dictators. Permit me to doubt Russia is withdrawing troops from the Amur River anytime soon, to help prosecute the Ukraine invasion.

 

In addition, Russia could rely on Western efforts to cripple the Nazi war machine with bombing raids, even before Normandy. Now, the West is doing the same to Russia with damaging sanctions.

 

At the height of the Cold War, Russia was importing about twenty optical emission spectrometers from the USA every year. The diffraction gratings in the equipment were used for Soviet ICBM guidance systems, the rest was discarded. Russian technology capabilities were not competent enough to make or copy them.

 

History repeats itself, this time it is the microchips of refrigerators and washing machines.

 

Edited April 24, 2023 by Lacessit

[billd766]

On 4/6/2023 at 11:30 AM, Kwasaki said:

Well at least someone should use it to find some dialogue to finding a way to end the war. 

IMHO the war will not end until Putin is permanently removed from any position of power.

[Lacessit]

2 hours ago, billd766 said:

IMHO the war will not end until Putin is permanently removed from any position of power.

Correct.

[ThailandRyan]

2 minutes ago, Lacessit said:

Correct.

+1 on that.  

[thaibeachlovers]

On 4/24/2023 at 12:09 PM, Lacessit said:

The real tragedy for ordinary Russians is it should be one of the most well-off countries, even with endemic corruption. Instead, it is being led back into Cold War privations by a single man, obsessed with restoring an empire which is in the dustbin of history.

Hasn't that been true for ordinary Russians as long as there has been a Russia?

Sounds like it's the same as during the cold war, and they survived that.

 

I reckon a year after it's over, things will be back to "normal" whatever that means, especially if Russian gas is cheaper than what they are getting now.

They say a week in politics is a long time.

[thaibeachlovers]

17 hours ago, billd766 said:

IMHO the war will not end until Putin is permanently removed from any position of power.

How do you know the person/ people that replace him won't continue the same policy?

[xylophone]

On 4/24/2023 at 12:28 AM, Vlad66777 said:

It's very fun to read foreigners' comments about what Russians think and want. Maybe for a start ask the opinion of the Russian people themselves ??
You have been brainwashed by the Americans. What truth do you want to know from their press??

 

The autonomous non-profit organization Yuri Levada Analytical Center received a significant amount of foreign funding from the United States, including from the University of Wisconsin, which is curated by the Pentagon.

 

Meduza's sources of funding, which had been kept secret until that moment, were discovered by a careful study of the publication's financial statements. Among the sponsors of the opposition media were two Western organizations, which at one time were partners of George Soros. One of them also funded a project by Pussy Riot members and Russian LGBT communities. Information about the agreements concluded is contained in the financial statements of the Latvian company Medusa Project SIA for 2017.

Putting aside your drivel and nonsense, a question for you: "why has Russia invaded Ukraine?".

 

You are free to speak as you wish (within reason) on this forum, without getting dragged off to the Gulag, so I would be interested to hear your response.

[billd766]

4 hours ago, thaibeachlovers said:

How do you know the person/ people that replace him won't continue the same policy?

I don't know at all, as nobody has dared poke their head over the parapet, but they would do it to stop the war IF they have any sense.

[Lacessit]

1 hour ago, xylophone said:

Putting aside your drivel and nonsense, a question for you: "why has Russia invaded Ukraine?".

 

You are free to speak as you wish (within reason) on this forum, without getting dragged off to the Gulag, so I would be interested to hear your response.

I suspect the poster you have responded to has been given a holiday.

 

From a Russian perspective, the buffer states against invasion from the West that the Soviet Union used to have prior to 1990 are all gone. The Baltic states, Hungary, Romania and Poland are firmly in the NATO camp. Hence regarded as hostile.

 

If you read "Journey into Russia" by Sir Lauren van der Post, he discusses the impact on the Russian psyche of repeated invasions by the Tatars and Mongols, plus ensuing famines. Russian deaths during WWII were more than the entire current population of Australia. He posits because Russia was a society kept on the run for centuries, it has never had the opportunity to develop into a true democracy. Gorbachev was probably their best chance. However, he was deeply unpopular within Russia itself because of the buffer security he abandoned, and his economic reforms.

 

I am not in any way excusing Russia's invasion of Ukraine, or the previous annexation of Crimea. Putin has repeatedly stated his desire to return to the days of the Soviet Union, when the last outpost of democracy was West Germany. His wish is based on insecurity and paranoia. While Russian people may not have the second attribute, they very probably have the first.

[xylophone]

2 hours ago, Lacessit said:

I suspect the poster you have responded to has been given a holiday.

 

From a Russian perspective, the buffer states against invasion from the West that the Soviet Union used to have prior to 1990 are all gone. The Baltic states, Hungary, Romania and Poland are firmly in the NATO camp. Hence regarded as hostile.

 

If you read "Journey into Russia" by Sir Lauren van der Post, he discusses the impact on the Russian psyche of repeated invasions by the Tatars and Mongols, plus ensuing famines. Russian deaths during WWII were more than the entire current population of Australia. He posits because Russia was a society kept on the run for centuries, it has never had the opportunity to develop into a true democracy. Gorbachev was probably their best chance. However, he was deeply unpopular within Russia itself because of the buffer security he abandoned, and his economic reforms.

 

I am not in any way excusing Russia's invasion of Ukraine, or the previous annexation of Crimea. Putin has repeatedly stated his desire to return to the days of the Soviet Union, when the last outpost of democracy was West Germany. His wish is based on insecurity and paranoia. While Russian people may not have the second attribute, they very probably have the first.

Many thanks for your response Lacessit, informative and succinct.

 

What I was hoping for was to get the answer from the poster (the holiday boy) to see exactly what he believed or what nonsense he was being fed by the Russian government and press – – it would have been interesting to get his take on it.

 

It also seems like you are well read, what with your mention of, "Journey into Russia", so I shall keep an eye on your posts, having said that, I mostly always do anyway!

 

Have a good day.????
 

[candide]

Provided the poll is reliable, I would assume the dominant answer is motivated by the fact that Russia is not winning this war, rather than by altruistic considerations.