Englishman fights for his life after motorbike crash in Phuket, Thailand

[richard_smith237]

39 minutes ago, torturedsole said:

46 minutes ago, swbaggies said:

This may be true but if you rent a car in the UK it come with compulsory basic insurance so you do not have a choice. You can then upgrade it to cover other things such as the vehicle. 

But you'll be treated on the NHS free of charge. 

37 minutes ago, swbaggies said:

39 minutes ago, torturedsole said:

But you'll be treated on the NHS free of charge. 

OK. But no licence no car. No car no accident. No accident no nhs

29 minutes ago, swbaggies said:

30 minutes ago, richard_smith237 said:

Wrong... Even if laws are broken and someone illegally takes a motorcycle and has an accident, they still receive full emergency medical care without charge. 

If you are going to quote me then please read what I wrote. 

I said if their was no accident then the NHS would not be required. 

Here is the trail (apologies for it being poorly laid out - there is no clear multi quote function here).

 

The point was made that whatever happens anyone in the UK receives free NHS emergency medical care.

 

You made an utterly moot point that if there is no accident no care is needed.... its kind of ridiculous. 

 

------

 

Now, I do get the point you were trying to make - that IF the rental companies do not let tourists without licence ride bikes then those tourists won’t have an accident...

 

But, people still have accidents...  this insurance conundrum isn’t just about people riding a motorcycle without a licence - its about anyone getting hurt, it could be crossing a road. 

 

In the UK, everyone receives medical care, foreign or otherwise, illegal or legal etc.

 

 

 

[torturedsole]

1 minute ago, Yellowtail said:

Therein lies the rub. Yes, people should have valid insurance and I driver license, I think we all agree on that. The issue is what's to be done about the irresponsible few? 

Their parents either remortgage the house or set up a Go Fund Me page. 

 

The problem with GFM is that after the initial media interest, the donations invariably dry up after a few days. 

 

A good travel insurance policy and adherence to the T&Cs will negate all the aforementioned.  

[richard_smith237]

Just now, Yellowtail said:

Why do you assume it's Thailand that does not have it right? 

I believe free access to emergency healthcare is a human right...

 

So when a countries example a system whereby anyone, foreigners or nationals can get free access to emergency health care that country is making efforts to do the right thing. 

 

Thailand does not make such efforts. 

 

I believe it is wrong that they burden people in such a manner.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[richard_smith237]

39 minutes ago, Yellowtail said:

46 minutes ago, richard_smith237 said:

That was my point earlier... 

 

The medical cost burden of Tourists in Thailand is 0.04% of the income from international tourism.... 

 

I don't see why there is any need for anything other than free emergency healthcare in the first place and that would ‘offset’.

 

For those on longer term visa’s they could pay into the Thai health care system.

And, for those on tourist Visa’s longer than 1 month, they could show proof of insurance. 

Expand  

So when everyone that comes gets free medical do you not see that 0.04% rising significantly?

No I don't at all...     Because people do not deliberately get into accidents or get injured. 

 

Note - I’m referring to emergency medical treatment that should be free - not elective treatment. 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[Yellowtail]

Just now, richard_smith237 said:

I believe free access to emergency healthcare is a human right...

 

So when a countries example a system whereby anyone, foreigners or nationals can get free access to emergency health care that country is making efforts to do the right thing. 

 

Thailand does not make such efforts. 

 

I believe it is wrong that they burden people in such a manner.

Yeah, I don't believe that I think the idea is ridiculous. 

 

Is food a human right? 

Housing? 

Transportaion? 

Internet? 

[Yellowtail]

Just now, richard_smith237 said:

No I don't at all...     Because people do not deliberately get into accidents or get injured. 

 

Note - I’m referring to emergency medical treatment that should be free - not elective treatment. 

You can seriously believe that the cost will not go up if medical care is made "free". That's more ridiculous than calling it a "human right". 

[richard_smith237]

43 minutes ago, torturedsole said:

No need to apportion blame when an appropriate level of travel insurance coverage is in place and the conditions of the policy followed.

 

It's not difficult. 

Agreed... its not difficult...  Yet so many fall foul. 

 

There needs to be a better system so that people can’t fall foul of themselves. 

It could be argued that people should be responsible for themselves... but so many clearly aren’t.

 

I wasn’t responsible when travelling in my 20’s... I was just lucky... like many of you. 

It would be unfair of me to pass such judgement on those who are now young and making similar choices, either through lack of awareness or just youthful naivety.

 

I firmly believe tourists should be treated for free - Emergency care - then this horrific situation would be eradicated. 

 

Sure, have insurance - I’d carry it anyway because I don't want to be treated in a state hospital, I’m sure many others also would carry their own cover. 

But, for those short-term-tourists who are less organised the guarantee of free emergency medical treatment is what all countries should offer their ’guests’...

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[richard_smith237]

5 minutes ago, Yellowtail said:

8 minutes ago, richard_smith237 said:

No I don't at all...     Because people do not deliberately get into accidents or get injured. 

 

Note - I’m referring to emergency medical treatment that should be free - not elective treatment. 

You can seriously believe that the cost will not go up if medical care is made "free". That's more ridiculous than calling it a "human right". 

Why would the cost of emergency medical treatment go up ???? (I’m not referring to elective treatment)

 

People don't travel on holiday to have an accident and abuse free medical treatment. 

 

Additionally, you need to understand the word ‘free’ this context - I’m not suggesting the hospitals do not charge for treatment, rather I’m suggesting the source of funding for said emergency treatment is from the national health service in part funded by some of the profit from tourism (i.e for the purposes of this discussion a break even point of 0.04% of income from tourism). 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[richard_smith237]

9 minutes ago, Yellowtail said:

You can seriously believe that the cost will not go up if medical care is made "free". That's more ridiculous than calling it a "human right". 

I think you have misunderstood - I am not referring to medical care in general. 

 

I am referring to emergency medical treatment....

i.e. when someone is in a motorcycle accident, when hit by a car crossing the road, when electrocuted by a light fixture, when garrotted by a hanging wire, when tripping over and breaking their leg...  or if struck down by sudden illness while here, suffering a heart attack et etc...  

 

 

 

 

[oxo1947]

You can not rent a car in Thailand without a Car license--how about we make it the same for Motor bikes--- as its seems 90 % of the Tourist accidents are, it seems, from riders who have never passed a test 

[richard_smith237]

23 minutes ago, Yellowtail said:

Yeah, I don't believe that I think the idea is ridiculous. 

 

Is food a human right?   

Housing? 

Transportaion? 

Internet? 

The right to health was again recognised as a human right in the 1966 International Covenant on Economic, Social and Cultural Rights.

 

The right to food is recognised in the 1948 Universal Declaration of Human Rights.

 

The right to adequate housing is a human right recognised in international human rights law as part of the right to an adequate standard of living.

 

Transportation and Internet - in your context perhaps not, however, in the context of freedom of information and rights to information - then yes.

 

 

 

 

[Yellowtail]

12 minutes ago, richard_smith237 said:

Why would the cost of emergency medical treatment go up ???? (I’m not referring to elective treatment)

Do you think that everyone needing emergency medical treatment is broke and without insurance? 

 

12 minutes ago, richard_smith237 said:

People don't travel on holiday to have an accident and abuse free medical treatment. 

No, but they are certainly not going to pay for it if it's "free". 

12 minutes ago, richard_smith237 said:

Additionally, you need to understand the word ‘free’ this context - I’m not suggesting the hospitals do not charge for treatment, rather I’m suggesting the source of funding for said emergency treatment is from the national health service in part funded by some of the profit from tourism (i.e for the purposes of this discussion a break even point of 0.04% of income from tourism). 

Yes, so all the responsible tourists pay for the irresponsible tourists, brilliant. 

[Pink Mist]

Troll posts with baiting replies as well as off topic posts regarding Thailand's proposed insurance have been removed. The OP is:

 

Englishman fights for his life after motorbike crash in Phuket, Thailand

 

Please stay civil, no name calling or personal attacks are allowed per forum rules.

 

9. You will not post disruptive or inflammatory messages. You will respect other members and post in a civil manner. Personal attacks, insults or hate speech posted on the forum or sent by private message are not allowed.

 

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[stevenl]

42 minutes ago, Yellowtail said:

Do you think that everyone needing emergency medical treatment is broke and without insurance? 

 

No, but they are certainly not going to pay for it if it's "free". 

Yes, so all the responsible tourists pay for the irresponsible tourists, brilliant. 

If the insurance offered 'for free' in a state hospital I'm sure many would prefer to use their own private insurance.

 

The principle of insurance is that many pay a bit for the few that need it.

[rattlesnake]

The answer has to be political:

 

Nobody sets foot on Thai soil unless they have appropriate insurance. Also a campaign (with posters at the airport and in lots of different places) saying if you don't have a motorcycle licence from your home country, appropriately converted into an international licence, then you can't drive. Also enforce, i.e. systematically stop and fine foreigners without helmets, as well all contravening parties involved (e.g. for a driver caught without a licence, check where the bike comes from and also fine the owner of the bike: rental shop, friend…).

 

Yeah, wishful thinking. But it's the only way.

[Adumbration]

Gods speed young man.  I wish you a full recovery.

 

It is good that he is at Vachira and not been ripped off at one of the private hospitals.

 

And to all the numpties typing....no helmet...maybe drunk....his responsibility...you sicken me each and every one of you.

 

Were you never twenty something?  Did you never take risks...especially on an adventure with your mates.  You should all be ashamed of yourself.

 

It could well of been me lying in that hospital bed 40 years ago...just good luck on my part...

 

 

[torturedsole]

11 minutes ago, Adumbration said:

Were you never twenty something?  Did you never take risks...especially on an adventure with your mates.  You should all be ashamed of yourself.

Yes, I took risks in my youth but never expected to be bailed out when it all went south.

[Adumbration]

12 minutes ago, torturedsole said:

Yes, I took risks in my youth but never expected to be bailed out when it all went south.

How about just praying that this young lad pulls through this instead of worrying about who is going to foot the bill.  I am quite sure it will not be you.

 

Sounds like as a youth you were a model citizen.  How boring you must have been.

 

When I was 20 I never once turned my mind to the issue of risk.  I was 8 feet tall and bullet proof.  

[rattlesnake]

51 minutes ago, Adumbration said:

Gods speed young man.  I wish you a full recovery.

 

It is good that he is at Vachira and not been ripped off at one of the private hospitals.

 

And to all the numpties typing....no helmet...maybe drunk....his responsibility...you sicken me each and every one of you.

 

Were you never twenty something?  Did you never take risks...especially on an adventure with your mates.  You should all be ashamed of yourself.

 

It could well of been me lying in that hospital bed 40 years ago...just good luck on my part...

 

 

Empathy is not the dominant trait on this forum.

[spidermike007]

8 hours ago, BritScot said:

Why? Have you riden in Thailand? The roads can be great or the total opposit and pot holes are common on some roads. The poor guy would be alive if they had left the glass in place just like the poor Steve with the stingray.

Yes. I ride alot here. But, I have been riding nearly 50 years. I was simply asking how much riding experience he had. It does make a big difference. 

[richard_smith237]

1 hour ago, Adumbration said:

Gods speed young man.  I wish you a full recovery.

 

It is good that he is at Vachira and not been ripped off at one of the private hospitals.

 

And to all the numpties typing....no helmet...maybe drunk....his responsibility...you sicken me each and every one of you.

 

Were you never twenty something?  Did you never take risks...especially on an adventure with your mates.  You should all be ashamed of yourself.

 

It could well of been me lying in that hospital bed 40 years ago...just good luck on my part...

Well said...  There are so many sanctimonious hypocrites on threads such as this who conveniently forget the silly stuff they did when they were young... 

 

 

[richard_smith237]

1 hour ago, torturedsole said:

Yes, I took risks in my youth but never expected to be bailed out when it all went south.

Quite likely because just like most young people you never considered the possibility of ‘it all going south’ in the first place...    

[kwilco]

9 hours ago, MUSTYJACK said:

The responsibility of dealing with uninsured tourists lies firmly with the uninsured themselves and with nobody else. 

 

Then the families of these people are spared both the financial pain of the hospital bills, and the embarrassment of handing round the begging bowl.

 

Brits especially seem to belong to a victim culture that believes that responsibility  lies not with themselves but with "the government", "the council" or "the pothole". If a motorcyclists eyesight is so poor that he cant see a pothole in the road, then he is either going too fast or he needs glasses and therefore should not be on a motorbike in the first place.

 

I dont know if this chap had insurance or not, but the fact that there is a gofundme page begging for handouts suggests he is uninsured. Actions as well as inactions have consequences.

 

 

So one more vote for let them die?

 

people are keen to say whose "responsible" and why they were driving badly or illegally - but this is a perennial problem - so how about a REAL solution?

Edited May 9, 2023 by kwilco

[kwilco]

6 hours ago, Adumbration said:

Gods speed young man.  I wish you a full recovery.

 

It is good that he is at Vachira and not been ripped off at one of the private hospitals.

 

And to all the numpties typing....no helmet...maybe drunk....his responsibility...you sicken me each and every one of you.

 

Were you never twenty something?  Did you never take risks...especially on an adventure with your mates.  You should all be ashamed of yourself.

 

It could well of been me lying in that hospital bed 40 years ago...just good luck on my part...

 

 

Agreed - the thing is apart from  stating the obvious, they aren't offering any solution - this will happen over and over again......(we all know what he SHOULD have done but repeating it over and over achieves nothing.

 

Thailand has appallingly awful emergency/first responder services  and no amount of insurance get get over that but a solution is a system that guarantees patients are treated best as possible first - payment, blame and responsibility comes after that.

It has occurred to me that it is highly likely that some of the hypocrites could easily find themselves on the other side of this discussion one day.

 

[IvorBiggun2]

7 hours ago, richard_smith237 said:

There are so many sanctimonious hypocrites on threads such as this who conveniently forget the silly stuff they did when they were young... 

 

Yes I did silly stuff when young but that doesn't make it right that the person in this story should do the same. 

[Yellowtail]

11 hours ago, stevenl said:

If the insurance offered 'for free' in a state hospital I'm sure many would prefer to use their own private insurance.

I was talking more about people that actually pay the bill with their own money, but many would quit buying travel insurance if medical care was free, yes? 

11 hours ago, stevenl said:

The principle of insurance is that many pay a bit for the few that need it.

No, the principle of insurance is that many pay a bit in the event that they are one of the few that need it.

[Hanaguma]

...perhaps a system of no fault insurance that was for the bike, not the rider. One that is built into the cost of the rental.  Shops that do not pay for it are then liable for any damages or bills caused by uninsured riders on their rented bikes.  Might raise the cost of rentals by a hundred baht or so a day, but would cover tragic situations like this.

[Yellowtail]

38 minutes ago, Hanaguma said:

...perhaps a system of no fault insurance that was for the bike, not the rider. One that is built into the cost of the rental.  Shops that do not pay for it are then liable for any damages or bills caused by uninsured riders on their rented bikes.  Might raise the cost of rentals by a hundred baht or so a day, but would cover tragic situations like this.

Exactly. Let the people that use it, pay for it. 

[The Fugitive]

6 hours ago, kwilco said:

Agreed - the thing is apart from  stating the obvious, they aren't offering any solution - this will happen over and over again......(we all know what he SHOULD have done but repeating it over and over achieves nothing.

 

Thailand has appallingly awful emergency/first responder services  and no amount of insurance get get over that but a solution is a system that guarantees patients are treated best as possible first - payment, blame and responsibility comes after that.

It has occurred to me that it is highly likely that some of the hypocrites could easily find themselves on the other side of this discussion one day.

Perhaps not relevant but an illustration. A cousin who is Welsh was on holiday in Germany. Whilst walking upon a pavement she was mown down by a crazy taxi driver. The amount of ironwork required to repair her skeleton was incredible. All superbly done in Germany and covered by her EHIC and, of course, travel insurance. Four years later, the last of the ironwork was removed, for free, under UK National Health Service. If advocating emergency treatment should be free, need to clarify whether that is immediate life saving only or to include several follow up operations to render the patient mobile again, as was the case here.

[BritScot]

20 hours ago, brianthainess said:

If he had stopped provoking all kinds of wild life, it wouldn't have happened. poor steve my ass

Try looking into his life and the great things he did. I used to think "what a tool" then I read the things he had accomplished as a naturalist.