Wifey's UK widows pension when i ''Pop me clogs''- Anyone have any knowledge/experiences ?

[billd766]

2 hours ago, Pumpuynarak said:

 

If her widows pension income exceeds the personal allowance currently £12570 pa she will pay income tax, that is what HMRC have told me. They also told me she will have to claim the personal allowance each year at the end of each year by completing form K43 and then receive a lump sum refund.

Thank you. I did not know that.

 

The pensions combined will not exceed the  current tax free allowance (unless that changes or is cancelled).

[Pumpuynarak]

1 hour ago, MartinL said:

 

Shouldn't that be R43?

 

Yes indeed it should be R43, my apologies.

[OJAS]

18 hours ago, billd766 said:

 

I/We have been assuming that she will receive the full 50% of each and pay no UK income tax.

 

Whilst this is, indeed, the case provided that the amounts involved do not total more than the UK personal allowance (currently £12,570) as already said, it would appear that her widow's pensions might, however, be deemed assessable income for Thailand taxation purposes, because of Article 19(2) of the UK/Thailand Double Taxation Agreement, which states:

 

(2) (a) Any pension paid by the Contracting State or a political subdivision or a local

authority thereof to any individual in respect of services of a governmental nature

rendered to that State or subdivision or local authority thereof shall be taxable

only in that State.

(b) However, such pension shall be taxable only in the other contracting State if

the recipient is a national of and a resident of that State.

 

But, given your subsequent statement that the amounts involved won't exceed the current UK personal allowance, she might not, in practice, have to pay any tax in Thailand either because of the various allowances and exemptions currently in force.

 

That all said, things could, of course, change at both UK and Thailand ends between now and when your wife claims her widow's pensions!

 

 

[billd766]

I went to this link https://www.gov.uk/guidance/claim-personal-allowances-and-tax-refunds-if-you-live-abroad

 

which is the link to HMRC form R43 and followed it along as far as I could and it seems as though my wife should be entitled to the UK tax free allowance, plus it looks as though she will not have to pay any income tax on my pensions at all.

[billd766]

18 minutes ago, OJAS said:

 

Whilst this is, indeed, the case provided that the amounts involved do not total more than the UK personal allowance (currently £12,570) as already said, it would appear that her widow's pensions might, however, be deemed assessable income for Thailand taxation purposes, because of Article 19(2) of the UK/Thailand Double Taxation Agreement, which states:

 

(2) (a) Any pension paid by the Contracting State or a political subdivision or a local

authority thereof to any individual in respect of services of a governmental nature

rendered to that State or subdivision or local authority thereof shall be taxable

only in that State.

(b) However, such pension shall be taxable only in the other contracting State if

the recipient is a national of and a resident of that State.

 

But, given your subsequent statement that the amounts involved won't exceed the current UK personal allowance, she might not, in practice, have to pay any tax in Thailand either because of the various allowances and exemptions currently in force.

 

That all said, things could, of course, change at both UK and Thailand ends between now and when your wife claims her widow's pensions!

 

 

However as a Thai national (she will be 60 in October) she will also be entitled to the standard 150,000 baht exempted income, and probably the age allowance of 190,000 baht.

[OJAS]

7 hours ago, Pumpuynarak said:

They also told me she will have to claim the personal allowance each year at the end of each year by completing form R43 and then receive a lump sum refund.

 

On the basis of section G it would appear that this refund would take the form of a GBP cheque which HMRC would then despatch to the beneficiary widow by snail mail. Another shining example of HMRC being really at the cutting edge of secure electronic technology, is it (not)?!! 

 

More seriously, though, is the note stating that "it’s sometimes not possible to cash British pound payments overseas" - which, I suspect, could be problematical here in Thailand. Would be nice, I think, if HMRC could proactively tell our widows how they would be able to receive their refunds instead.

 

[MartinL]

On 2/18/2025 at 1:47 PM, MartinL said:

Of course I will. I'm not optimistic that it'll be a quick process, given the long wait for a reply to my letters, but HMRC might spring a surprise!

 

On 2/18/2025 at 2:04 PM, prakhonchai nick said:

I have assisted several Thai widows of British expats. They all receive the Personal Tax Allowance (currently £12,570), and this is sorted  by the former employer of husband when paying the widow's pension. No need ever to deal direct with HMRC re the allowance

 

However, depending on the date of death of the husband, a tax refund can be claimed (sometimes automatic after a year or so has elapsed)

 

Note that the UK state pension ceases upon death. There are no longer any benefits for widows or children, nor the one off lump sum payment (was £2,000).................unless husband and family happened to be in the UK at time of death

 

I've just received the P60 for 24/25 for my mate's widow. That year, she had a tax code of 1257L M1 - an emergency tax code. Her income from that pension was far, far below £12,570 yet she was charged £511 tax which is clearly wrong and I hope that'll be refunded automatically with a future pension payment to her.

 

For 25/26, the first payment advice slip shows her code is 1257L - an 'ordinary' tax code which means she should pay no tax this year.

 

Because of prakonchai nick's post, I hadn't been in contact with HMRC re. the tax code and hadn't completed either of the forms R43 and DT-Individual mentioned in another post - I was waiting to receive the P60 and new year's payslip to see 25/26 tax code.

 

This seems to confirm PN's post in that tax code is sorted out by the former employer/pension provider. I hope this is true for all pension providers.

 

Thanks, Nick.

[Pumpuynarak]

16 hours ago, MartinL said:

Her income from that pension was far, far below £12,570 yet she was charged £511 tax which is clearly wrong and I hope that'll be refunded automatically with a future pension payment to her.

 

I would'nt hold your breath waiting for the refund of £511 i believe she will have to complete the R43 at the end of the tax year to achieve the refund or have the DT individual in place.

[MartinL]

On 5/24/2025 at 6:38 AM, Pumpuynarak said:

 

I would'nt hold your breath waiting for the refund of £511 i believe she will have to complete the R43 at the end of the tax year to achieve the refund or have the DT individual in place.

I think you're correct. 

 

According to this:-

https://www.moore.co.uk/news-views/august-2024/automatic-paye-refunds-are-no-longer-issued

automatic repayments of overpaid tax ceased after April 2024.

 

A bit of form-filling required then.