Jomtien's gone rogue on Non-Imm O visa

[Jingthing]

39 minutes ago, Caldera said:

It's an official procedure with official requirements and an officially numbered form (TM86, TM87).

 

There really isn't anything extraordinary about it that makes it much different from applying for an extension.

What it is is a visa and getting a visa for any country after you've entered the country, passed border immigration, is extraordinary by definition. Yes I am suggesting that the at the discretion of thr officer aspect is more significant with in country visas vs. in country extentions.

Edited May 16, 2023 by Jingthing

[DrJack54]

8 minutes ago, Jingthing said:

What it is is a visa and getting a visa for any country after you've entered the country, passed border immigration, is extraordinary by definition. Yes I am suggesting that the at the discretion of thr officer aspect is more significant with in country visas vs. in country extentions.

Please stop.

The "conversions" from visa exempt exempt and tourist visa using TM87 and TM86 has been done with zero issue countless times.

 

The most typical being expats killing off obligation to extensions from a non O-A.

 

Also post covid there was insurance requirement for non O obtained in home country.

In countless threads an alternative was suggested.

That was to enter visa exempt and obtain non O in Thailand.

 

Our great man UJ suggested that pathway in many threads.

 

It's not difficult. It's a daily event.

Stop unless scaremongering. 

Edited May 16, 2023 by DrJack54

[BritTim]

1 hour ago, rwilem said:

I get that, too. This was ten years ago, and my recall for what the situation was then--the first extension--was not going to be a one day deal, for the under consideration. It was going be some time, I want to say a month even, and the word confirmed by trustworthy, experienced guys there. That's what spurred me to just do it in Bangkok, to be done with all of it in one go on extension day.

An under consideration period exists when you need a Non O visa before you can apply for the 12-month extensions. The under consideration period typically takes about a month and requires sign off at Division headquarters. The requirement to wait overnight to get your passport back when you apply for an extension is not an "under consideration" period. It is simply a wait for the senior official in Jomtien to rubber stamp the extension.

[DrJack54]

51 minutes ago, Phulublub said:

You only apply for a non-Imm VISA once.  You never make a "following application" for a visa.

Stop there..

Many folk apply for subsequent non O visa.

It could be as simple as change from non O-A to non O.

Could be  exit Thailand kill off non O-A to reentry visa exempt and obtain new non O .

[2009]

1 hour ago, Jingthing said:

What it is is a visa and getting a visa for any country after you've entered the country, passed border immigration, is extraordinary by definition. Yes I am suggesting that the at the discretion of thr officer aspect is more significant with in country visas vs. in country extentions

Indeed.

 

Immigration does play a different role to foreign ministry (consulates) abroad.

 

They are on the front line of national protection and may let it go to their heads on occasion.

 

The foreign ministry consulate folk are not immigration officers and likely often have a different mentality.

Edited May 16, 2023 by 2009

[dingdongrb]

1 hour ago, Phulublub said:

You only apply for a non-Imm VISA once.  You never make a "following application" for a visa. 

 

Once you have your VISA, you may then make applications for extensions of stay - the first of those will be an initial application for your EXTENSION, later ones will be following.  BUT ALL will be for extensions; none of them for a visa.

 

Why is this so difficult for you to understand?

 

PH

From the OP:

"Several people on here (myself included) have reported Jomtien immigration demands 800k in bank account for 2 months prior to application for Non-Immigration O (Retirement). This is totally different to the rest of the country who only require funds in bank day of application."

 

Now show me where he states a 'visa' or an 'extension'.........   I'll wait!

[JimTripper]

10 hours ago, Pattaya57 said:

I've checked that out. Pacific Cross with 40k deductible (once per policy year) gives 3 million baht insurance for 38k a year. I'd be getting insurance anyway and that's cheaper than my current health insurance in Aus

 

O-A visa also means I never have to visit immigration for 2 years (other than first 90 day report in person) ????

 

You do need a residence in your home country to get the o-a though. They ask for a permanent residence address near where you are applying. I think you need to show a drivers license or other id with the address on it.

[BritTim]

1 hour ago, dingdongrb said:

From the OP:

"Several people on here (myself included) have reported Jomtien immigration demands 800k in bank account for 2 months prior to application for Non-Immigration O (Retirement). This is totally different to the rest of the country who only require funds in bank day of application."

 

Now show me where he states a 'visa' or an 'extension'.........   I'll wait!

The thread title indicates that he is talking about application for a visa. Further, when you are apply for an extension on the basis of retirement, you do not use terminology that is specific to a visa application. I am reluctant to curtail discussions, but may need to close this thread if there are continuing senseless attempts to justify inaccurate posts.

[balo]

Just use an agent, always worked for me. Never had 800k in the bank. 

It will cost you 15-20k baht, but it's worth it. 

 

[CartagenaWarlock]

12 hours ago, Pattaya57 said:

as it must be done 15 days prior to expiry of current entry stamp (so you need at least 76 days entry)

So, get a tourist visa and enter and extend it. Easy peasy. Posting in this forum will not resolve anything, I can bet on it. 

[CartagenaWarlock]

12 hours ago, herfiehandbag said:

They want you to use an agent.

 

Agents are lucrative.

Sure why not? They also have aspirations, hope, and desires to send their children to expensive schools, buy fancy cars and keep their mia nois happy. It's not their fault that they were born in Thailand without any means to earn in dollars. 

 

[cdnvic]

Removed one post.

 

- Do not single out specific immigration employees.

- Certainly do not add childish insults.

[CartagenaWarlock]

12 hours ago, HappyExpat57 said:

Next roadblock - I only have two months left to my lease. Same immigration #@&^@ said she wanted to see a renewed contract for the following year. Fine, I went back home, Photoshopped new dates on the first page, printed it out then handed that to her. She started making noise about how I'd have to come back the next day for some more made up bullsh!t.

So, you tried to cheat them they wanted more proof. Som nam na. 

[CartagenaWarlock]

9 hours ago, Pattaya57 said:

Never want to go to Jomtien immigration again so O-A visa is perfect

It all depends on individual circumstances. For some OA is perfect, for others in-country change from exempt (or STV) to O-A is perfect. There is no one size fits all. 

[CartagenaWarlock]

8 hours ago, Red Phoenix said:

The main drawback of that 1-year ME Non Imm O Visa is that it only provides you with a 90-day Permit to stay on entry, after which you need to leave the country, and of course can immediately return which will provide you with a new 90-day Permit to stay. 

That is a huge no, no for me. It binds me to some specific date every three months for which I need to plan in advance and if unable to do the border run due to any reasons, I may be staying beyond the permitted to stay date. For extension, the planning is once a year and also, there are some leniency in some offices about how far in advance you can apply. The best option is LTR visa. 

[CartagenaWarlock]

6 hours ago, pomchop said:

i bet there are a lot of bmw's and mercedes and rolex watches owned by a lot of immigration officers and agents....i

Why they won't? Don't they have aspirations and desires for fancy things in life? It is not their mistakes they were born in Thailand and don't have any means to earn dollars. In contrast, the people who were lucky to be able to earn dollars are miserable in their own lands and have ot flock to Thailand for their survival. 

[CartagenaWarlock]

8 hours ago, foreverlomsak said:

You mean that they kept it, which I understand to be illegal (sorry this is Thailand), leaving you exposed to a fine or worse for not having your passport on you or being unable to produce it in a reasonable amount of time if you ever stopped.

Don't say nobody gets stopped in the street because I have been, and look at all the bar checks that are happening now, to weed out overstayers, etc..

Have you buried you heads on the sand? A pic of the passport info page and the valid Permission to stay date stamp page are all they require when they check. They don't ask for actual passports. I have experience with that. 

[CartagenaWarlock]

11 hours ago, Red Phoenix said:

Like Al Pacino said in 'Scent of a Woman' > If I were 30 years younger I would go back there with a flame-thrower and burn the place to a crisp....

That is the exact reason why Thailand puts all sorts of hurdles to people who flee their own country to take refuge in a foreign lands without paying tributes. If it were easy peasy, many government offices will be in flame because sensitive foreigners who could not find women in their own country will go berserk if their entitlement mentalities are not honored properly. 

Edited May 16, 2023 by CartagenaWarlock

[david555]

10 hours ago, BritTim said:

For quite some time, during Covid, it was possible to get 60-day Covid extensions. This did not involve applications for a visa using TM86 or TM87.

 

As most here seem to appreciate, application for an extension of your permission to stay (using the TM7 form) is not the same as applying for a Non Immigrant visa (using the TM86/TM87 forms).

 

The official rule when apply for a Non O visa at Immigration on the basis of retirement is that you need 800k baht in the bank on the day of application with proof that the money originated abroad. Notes: (i) if the money has been undisturbed in a Thai bank account for a significant period, most offices will waive the proof that the money originated abroad. (ii) if you are a citizen of a country whose embassy still issues income letters, you can use an income letter showing an income of minimum 65,000 baht per month as an alternative to the money in the bank.

 

Note that a possible workaround is to apply in Bangkok. If you check into a hotel in Bangkok, and apply for the visa there, Immigration will accept the explanation that you are staying in hotels while looking for a permanent place to live. This would need three trips to Bangkok (with nights in hotel): application for visa; collection of visa and 90-day permission to stay after the under consideration period; and application for the first one-year extension. After that you can establish a residence in Pattaya and continue normally.

That is / was always the correct rule in my 14 years stay Jomtien . I never had any problem in  Jomtien immigration ,but I followed the 800 k bank money way ,...and never used or had to use an agent .And yes my 800k baht was already on bank when I applied for my ret ext.

 

I never had any complaints about that office .....

Let me hope for same way whenever I return as before 

 

[HappyExpat57]

54 minutes ago, CartagenaWarlock said:

So, you tried to cheat them they wanted more proof. Som nam na. 

No, not a cheat. I brought the document to the condo manager and she said, "Sure, I can't create this for 3 days, go ahead." I had her approval, NOT a cheat. Just doing their jobs for them.

[Pattaya57]

1 hour ago, CartagenaWarlock said:

So, get a tourist visa and enter and extend it. Easy peasy. Posting in this forum will not resolve anything, I can bet on it. 

I had an appointment booked at Vientiane on 23rd to get a tourist visa. Came down to personal choice deciding I couldn't be bothered travelling all the way to Nong Khai and back and dealing with a Thai embassy in a country I've never been to

 

Point is I shouldn't have to leave the country to get a tourist visa if Jomtien just followed the regulations that the rest of Thailand follow

 

As for posting here, at least people planning the visa exempt entry to non-imm O conversion will know to get a tourist visa instead if they're coming to Pattaya

 

Edited May 16, 2023 by Pattaya57

[Red Phoenix]

The main drawback of that 1-year ME Non Imm O Visa is that it only provides you with a 90-day Permit to stay on entry, after which you need to leave the country, and of course can immediately return which will provide you with a new 90-day Permit to stay.

 

2 hours ago, CartagenaWarlock said:

That is a huge no, no for me. It binds me to some specific date every three months for which I need to plan in advance and if unable to do the border run due to any reasons, I may be staying beyond the permitted to stay date. For extension, the planning is once a year and also, there are some leniency in some offices about how far in advance you can apply. The best option is LTR visa. 

You are not 'binded to some specific date' - you can exit Thailand at any time during that 90-day Permit to stay and will receive a new 90-day Permit to stay on re-entry.   

There can be no doubt that when you often travel internationally that the 1-year MultipleEntry Non Imm O Visa is the best available option.  No need to invest or park funds semi-permanently on a Thai bank-account, no need for 90-day reports, and - Super Bonus - no need to ever visit an Imm Office...

[Red Phoenix]

2 hours ago, CartagenaWarlock said:

It all depends on individual circumstances. For some OA is perfect, for others in-country change from exempt (or STV) to O-A is perfect. There is no one size fits all. 

You can only apply for a Non Imm O-A Visa in your home-country or country of residence. 

And you can only apply for a Non Imm O Visa in Thailand after having entered VisaExempt or on a Tourist Visa.

This thread is about the rogue Jomtien office making it deliberately very difficult for new arrivals that did their research and entered VisaExempt wanting to apply for the 90-day Non Imm O Visa for reason of retirement, like the immigration regulations explicitly foresee. 

But Jomtien by requiring 60 days seasoning of their +800K funds on a Thai bank-account - instead of funds available on day of application - deliberately drives them to the 'easy solution' of a Visa Agent.  It's a pure money-grab/extortion scheme, and I cannot understand anyone defending such corrupt behavior at  that office.

[Tod Daniels]

Sheesh this is a slow motion train wreck of a thread ????

FWIW: Jomtien has been requiring the 800K baht banked money method funds be in the account for 2 months to apply for the initial 90 day Non-O visa for a good long time now (as other groups Pattaya related have been talking about it for months and months).

There's not much you can do.  There's really no one to "complain to" as it's been their policy for a good while and you're unlikely to get high enough up the food chain of immigrationz to get to someone who could change it IF they wanted to.  

Your choice is to figure out how to do it ???? Astute posters pointed out that if you come here on a REAL single entry tourist visa, get your sh*t together, open the account, transfer the funds in, take the 1900baht 30 day extension and apply for the 90 day Non-O once the funds hit 2 months WILL work.. 
OR
get the initial 90 day non-O from a thai consulate in a nearby country
OR
get the 90 day Non-O from your country before you wing your way here
OR
via an agent in Pattaya (of which there are possibly hundreds down there)   

It can be done, and hundreds, possibly thousands of people manage to pull it off without too much issue.

[Red Phoenix]

2 hours ago, david555 said:

That is / was always the correct rule in my 14 years stay Jomtien . I never had any problem in  Jomtien immigration ,but I followed the 800 k bank money way ,...and never used or had to use an agent .And yes my 800k baht was already on bank when I applied for my ret ext.

 

I never had any complaints about that office .....

Let me hope for same way whenever I return as before 

 

When returning to Thailand and planning to apply for the 90-day Non Imm O Visa (retirement) at the Jomtien office, you are advised to enter on a 60-day Tourist Visa (when you do not have the +800K already on your Thai bank-account).  Entering VisaExempt and still having to open a Thai bank-account and transfering the required funds from abroad, is perfectly possible at any other Thai Imm Office when applying for that 90-day Non Imm O Visa (retirement).  But at Jomtien they deliberately bended the rules, such that it requires difficult hoops to jump through when wanting to do this without any Visa Agent help. 

[bigt3116]

15 hours ago, dingdongrb said:

An application is required for both, the initial extension request and any following extension requests. 

 

I just re-read your OP and you make no indication if it was the initial application or an application for a following year.

 

Hmmmmmmmmm............

There is no "initial extension request", he is applying for a 3 month single entry Non-O VISA.

 

Also he would use a TM87 not a TM7

[flexomike]

9 hours ago, 2009 said:

Last I checked other parts of the country require it to mature for 2 months too.

you better check again, two months for an extension, same day for applying for a non O visa within Thailand

[OJAS]

5 hours ago, BritTim said:

Further, when you are apply for an extension on the basis of retirement, you do not use terminology that is specific to a visa application.

Unfortunately there have been quite a few on here over the years who have seen absolutely no problem in using inaccurate "visa" terminology to refer to extensions of stay - which IMHO only serves to generate unnecessary confusion as graphically illustrated by this thread, I think.

 

[Rosho]

We can have you Smart visas, no financial requirements, allowing you to work, multi-entry, renewable, through our Social Enterprise Cooperative. 

If our solutions are unknown to the many, they are valid alternatives for active people of any age. They allow to legally work in Thailand and join a network of people developing the country.

Edited May 17, 2023 by Rosho
comments were calling for clarification

[Pattaya57]

2 hours ago, Tod Daniels said:

Sheesh this is a slow motion train wreck of a thread ????

FWIW: Jomtien has been requiring the 800K baht banked money method funds be in the account for 2 months to apply for the initial 90 day Non-O visa for a good long time now (as other groups Pattaya related have been talking about it for months and months).

So are you suggesting we should have joined other Pattaya groups months and months ago in order to know about this earlier ????

 

I've only seen a couple of random posts advising this in last 2-3 weeks on Asean Now (one of them was mine) so hardly known for a good long time. I first saw it on Pattaya Expats Club page who posted a warning about it on 17 April, too late for me of course as I'd already arrived on visa exempt.

 

Edited May 17, 2023 by Pattaya57