Nigel Farage: ‘Brexit has failed’

[James105]

31 minutes ago, Chomper Higgot said:

Of course not, he’s a back row heckler.

 

Incorrect.

https://news.sky.com/story/nigel-farage-delivers-brexit-demand-to-theresa-may-on-pms-last-day-as-tory-leader-11736845

 

Would it be any different if he was allowed to be involved and implement his vision?  We will never know.

[Chomper Higgot]

Just now, James105 said:

Incorrect.

https://news.sky.com/story/nigel-farage-delivers-brexit-demand-to-theresa-may-on-pms-last-day-as-tory-leader-11736845

 

Would it be any different if he was allowed to be involved and implement his vision?  We will never know.

The people who implement policies are the elected Government, Farage was never elected.

 

Though he did have a few goes at it:

 

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Electoral_history_of_Nigel_Farage#:~:text=Nigel Farage is a former,winning re-election four times.

 

 

[youreavinalaff]

15 minutes ago, Chomper Higgot said:

The people who implement policies are the elected Government, Farage was never elected.

 

Though he did have a few goes at it:

 

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Electoral_history_of_Nigel_Farage#:~:text=Nigel Farage is a former,winning re-election four times.

 

 

Quoting Wiki. Love it. 

 

So, governments implement policies. 

 

However, the post you quoted also suggested Farage being " involved". Are you suggesting all government advisors are elected?

[Chomper Higgot]

Just now, youreavinalaff said:

Quoting Wiki. Love it. 

 

So, governments implement policies. 

 

However, the post you quoted also suggested Farage being " involved". Are you suggesting all government advisors are elected?

Yes I’ve quoted the wiki article which records Farage’s multiple attempts to get elected to Parliament.

 

I’ve never once suggested ‘Farage being involved’ in Government, though obviously his attempts to get elected suggests he’d like to be.

 

I believe, correct me if I’m wrong, PM May gave him the hard shoulder.

 

 

[RayC]

3 hours ago, Purdey said:

I don't remember, did Farage ever make positive and helpful suggestions on how to do Brexit correctly or does he spend all his time criticizing after the fact? 

Farage was leader of UKIP and their successor, the Brexit Party. Both parties had one policy re Brexit: Leave with 'No deal' and trade on WTO terms.

 

How they proposed to deal with the UK's ongoing commitments to the EU post-Brexit was never made clear. However, tbf I guess that they would have argued that this would have been subject to negotiation, and that they did not want to reveal their hand.

[youreavinalaff]

36 minutes ago, Chomper Higgot said:

Yes I’ve quoted the wiki article which records Farage’s multiple attempts to get elected to Parliament.

 

I’ve never once suggested ‘Farage being involved’ in Government, though obviously his attempts to get elected suggests he’d like to be.

 

I believe, correct me if I’m wrong, PM May gave him the hard shoulder.

 

 

Care to answer my question? 

 

Please also read my post again. I don’t recall suggesting what you seem to think I did.

[josephbloggs]

1 hour ago, James105 said:

Incorrect.

https://news.sky.com/story/nigel-farage-delivers-brexit-demand-to-theresa-may-on-pms-last-day-as-tory-leader-11736845

 

Would it be any different if he was allowed to be involved and implement his vision?  We will never know.

"Allowed to be involved". Ha ha ha. Perhaps if he had won on any of the seven occasions he had stood for office he would have been "allowed" to be involved. That's generally how it works.

Of course we all know he failed on each of those seven occasions. Poor Nigel, not being allowed to be involved in things....

[dunroaming]

On 5/19/2023 at 10:43 AM, youreavinalaff said:

It's not quite as simple as all that though, is it?

 

There were too many MPs not doing their job. MPs are supposed to represent their constituents. Too many voted on Brexit matters according to their own views. Hence delays in deals and decisions. That was a major issue.

But nobody can point to one positive from Brexit.  The most glaring example being the vast increase in immigration, both legal and illegal.  Promises based on lies cannot possibly materialise because they were never viable in the first place.  I think it is perfectly simple

[nauseus]

37 minutes ago, josephbloggs said:

"Allowed to be involved". Ha ha ha. Perhaps if he had won on any of the seven occasions he had stood for office he would have been "allowed" to be involved. That's generally how it works.

Of course we all know he failed on each of those seven occasions. Poor Nigel, not being allowed to be involved in things....

Yet despite that Farage's "involvement" was a major factor pressuring Cameron to offer the referendum. Then, after May was finally done for, he collapsed the Brexit Party and handed Boris his 80-seat majority in the following GE. Not bad going for a loser.

 

The exit negotiations under May were weak and farcical from the off. Then it appeared that Boris's oven was on the blink and so the deal/dinner came out rather lumpy and cold. Twits mismanaging the country all the way through. 

[youreavinalaff]

2 minutes ago, dunroaming said:

But nobody can point to one positive from Brexit.  The most glaring example being the vast increase in immigration, both legal and illegal.  Promises based on lies cannot possibly materialise because they were never viable in the first place.  I think it is perfectly simple

How strange. Other posters have been banging on about how Brexit caused so many migrants to leave and cause mass shortages of workers. Now you say migration has vastly increased.

 

There have been lots of other reasons why illegal migration has increased. Namely the boom in people trafficing as a business. It's happened in EU countries too. It can,t  be blamed on Brexit.

[vinny41]

1 hour ago, josephbloggs said:

"Allowed to be involved". Ha ha ha. Perhaps if he had won on any of the seven occasions he had stood for office he would have been "allowed" to be involved. That's generally how it works.

Of course we all know he failed on each of those seven occasions. Poor Nigel, not being allowed to be involved in things....

650 MP's in HOC currently 354 Conservative MP of the remaining 296 MP's from other parties how many of them are currently invovled in current government policy

[josephbloggs]

1 hour ago, vinny41 said:

650 MP's in HOC currently 354 Conservative MP of the remaining 296 MP's from other parties how many of them are currently invovled in current government policy

Obviously not directly involved in government policy as such (I can see where you are going with this), but all MPs are represented, they get to debate, vote, table motions etc. So actually any elected MP can have a direct voice at the top. Shame he failed seven times and so didn't get an opportunity to get his voice heard - although he certainly does like the sound of it.

[vinny41]

32 minutes ago, josephbloggs said:

Obviously not directly involved in government policy as such (I can see where you are going with this), but all MPs are represented, they get to debate, vote, table motions etc. So actually any elected MP can have a direct voice at the top. Shame he failed seven times and so didn't get an opportunity to get his voice heard - although he certainly does like the sound of it.

They only have a direct voice at the top if the majority of other MP's agree with them. for a short period in 2014/2015 UKIP had 2 MP's so the chances of directly changing policy is zero

[RayC]

3 hours ago, youreavinalaff said:

How strange. Other posters have been banging on about how Brexit caused so many migrants to leave and cause mass shortages of workers. Now you say migration has vastly increased.

 

Strange? Not really. 

 

The abolition of freedom of movement since the UK left the EU has made it more difficult and expensive for EU nationals to live and work in the UK. This has resulted in there being negative net migration from EU member states (actually this has been the case since the referendum result was announced). Many of the EU workers were employed in low-paid sectors such as Agriculture and Hospitality. As the new rules governing UK immigration favour more highly skilled applicants, there has been a large increase in this type of worker, most of whom come from non-EU countries.

 

Whatever the merits of trying to attract more highly skilled immigrants, it does nothing to solve the shortage of labour in the aforementioned sectors. The government's attempts to attract overseas workers into the UK Agricultural and Hospitality sectors e.g. through the use of Seasonal Worker visa, have been unsuccessful. Hence, the UK is simultaneously suffering from labour shortages in certain sectors whilst overall net migration is at an all-time high.

 

Good summary of the UK points based immigration system here:

 

https://www.bbc.com/news/uk-48785695

[youreavinalaff]

30 minutes ago, RayC said:

Strange? Not really. 

 

The abolition of freedom of movement since the UK left the EU has made it more difficult and expensive for EU nationals to live and work in the UK. This has resulted in there being negative net migration from EU member states (actually this has been the case since the referendum result was announced). Many of the EU workers were employed in low-paid sectors such as Agriculture and Hospitality. As the new rules governing UK immigration favour more highly skilled applicants, there has been a large increase in this type of worker, most of whom come from non-EU countries.

 

Whatever the merits of trying to attract more highly skilled immigrants, it does nothing to solve the shortage of labour in the aforementioned sectors. The government's attempts to attract overseas workers into the UK Agricultural and Hospitality sectors e.g. through the use of Seasonal Worker visa, have been unsuccessful. Hence, the UK is simultaneously suffering from labour shortages in certain sectors whilst overall net migration is at an all-time high.

 

Good summary of the UK points based immigration system here:

 

https://www.bbc.com/news/uk-48785695

It is strange that one posters suggests a "vast increase" in legal migration whilst, at the same time, you speak of people leaving and only high end migrants being sought.

[Mac Mickmanus]

35 minutes ago, RayC said:

Strange? Not really. 

 

The abolition of freedom of movement since the UK left the EU has made it more difficult and expensive for EU nationals to live and work in the UK. This has resulted in there being negative net migration from EU member states (actually this has been the case since the referendum result was announced). Many of the EU workers were employed in low-paid sectors such as Agriculture and Hospitality. As the new rules governing UK immigration favour more highly skilled applicants, there has been a large increase in this type of worker, most of whom come from non-EU countries.

 

Whatever the merits of trying to attract more highly skilled immigrants, it does nothing to solve the shortage of labour in the aforementioned sectors. The government's attempts to attract overseas workers into the UK Agricultural and Hospitality sectors e.g. through the use of Seasonal Worker visa, have been unsuccessful. Hence, the UK is simultaneously suffering from labour shortages in certain sectors whilst overall net migration is at an all-time high.

 

Good summary of the UK points based immigration system here:

 

https://www.bbc.com/news/uk-48785695

Yes, people voted for Brexit to stop millions of unskilled Europeans going to the U.K for work and to live .

   That is why we left the E.U 

[RayC]

3 minutes ago, youreavinalaff said:

It is strange that one posters suggests a "vast increase" in legal migration whilst, at the same time, you speak of people leaving and only high end migrants being sought.

And to think that you have previously accused me of twisting the narrative!!!

 

I did not say - or even imply or infer - anywhere that "only high end migrants (were) being sought". What I actually said was ".. the new rules governing UK immigration favour more highly skilled applicants .." I added that the government had tried (unsuccessfully) to solve the problem of labour shortages in the Agricultural and Hospitality sectors by introducing a Seasonal Worker visa.

 

Therefore - as I said previously - in the circumstances, imo there is nothing strange in a record level of net migration occuring simultaneously with labour shortages in certain sectors: However, it might be argued that this points to a failure of government policy.

 

[RayC]

20 minutes ago, Mac Mickmanus said:

Yes, people voted for Brexit to stop millions of unskilled Europeans going to the U.K for work and to live .

   That is why we left the E.U 

And people voted for that in the knowledge that fruit would be rotting in the fields because there aren't enough workers to pick the stuff? Seems a bit counter productive to me.

 

What exactly is wrong with unskilled Europeans apart from the fact that they are unskilled and European?

[youreavinalaff]

1 hour ago, RayC said:

And people voted for that in the knowledge that fruit would be rotting in the fields because there aren't enough workers to pick the stuff? Seems a bit counter productive to me.

 

What exactly is wrong with unskilled Europeans apart from the fact that they are unskilled and European?

They might have thought it would encourage the unemployed to get off their backsides and do some work instead of scrounging benefits.

 

 

[Chomper Higgot]

6 hours ago, josephbloggs said:

"Allowed to be involved". Ha ha ha. Perhaps if he had won on any of the seven occasions he had stood for office he would have been "allowed" to be involved. That's generally how it works.

Of course we all know he failed on each of those seven occasions. Poor Nigel, not being allowed to be involved in things....

Precisely the point I made, to the chagrin of some.

[JayClay]

14 minutes ago, youreavinalaff said:

They might have thought it would encourage the unemployed to get off their backsides and do some work instead of scrounging benefits.

 

 

What unemployed?

[Chomper Higgot]

5 hours ago, nauseus said:

Yet despite that Farage's "involvement" was a major factor pressuring Cameron to offer the referendum. Then, after May was finally done for, he collapsed the Brexit Party and handed Boris his 80-seat majority in the following GE. Not bad going for a loser.

 

The exit negotiations under May were weak and farcical from the off. Then it appeared that Boris's oven was on the blink and so the deal/dinner came out rather lumpy and cold. Twits mismanaging the country all the way through. 

Nah, it was a failure from the start.

 

Removing the UK from the world’s largest integrated free trade zone was always going to fail, and as Farage points out, it has failed.

[Chomper Higgot]

5 hours ago, youreavinalaff said:

How strange. Other posters have been banging on about how Brexit caused so many migrants to leave and cause mass shortages of workers. Now you say migration has vastly increased.

 

There have been lots of other reasons why illegal migration has increased. Namely the boom in people trafficing as a business. It's happened in EU countries too. It can,t  be blamed on Brexit.

Yep, the UK lost skilled and educated Europeans and imported migrants of ‘variable quality’.

 

Illegal immigration increased because the UK lost control of its borders just at the point when Brexit handed complete control back to the UK.

 

To thus date, there are virtually no customs checks on freight entering the UK from the EU.

 

https://www.euractiv.com/section/economy-jobs/news/uk-confirms-plan-not-to-introduce-checks-on-eu-goods-until-2024/

[Chomper Higgot]

2 hours ago, Mac Mickmanus said:

Yes, people voted for Brexit to stop millions of unskilled Europeans going to the U.K for work and to live .

   That is why we left the E.U 

Since which British farmers are reporting crops rotting in the fields due to a lack of farm labour.

 

https://www.thegrocer.co.uk/brexit/stunted-cornish-businesses-urge-post-brexit-support-from-government/678481.article

 

[Chomper Higgot]

23 minutes ago, youreavinalaff said:

They might have thought it would encourage the unemployed to get off their backsides and do some work instead of scrounging benefits.

 

 

Of course, the unemployed scrounges.

 

Like the millions waiting for surgery or other essential medical care?

 

https://www.bma.org.uk/advice-and-support/nhs-delivery-and-workforce/pressures/nhs-backlog-data-analysis

[Mac Mickmanus]

1 hour ago, RayC said:

And people voted for that in the knowledge that fruit would be rotting in the fields because there aren't enough workers to pick the stuff? Seems a bit counter productive to me.

 

What exactly is wrong with unskilled Europeans apart from the fact that they are unskilled and European?

You are once again concentrating on the small group of fruit pickers , there were millions of others doing different jobs.

   The six million E.U citizens living and working in the U.K were NOT all picking strawberries in the summer  .

  Unskilled E.U workers were keeping the wages down .

They can apply for visas now and work in the UK whilst documented and do jobs when they are available 

[youreavinalaff]

28 minutes ago, Mac Mickmanus said:

They can apply for visas now and work in the UK whilst documented and do jobs when they are available 

That's a good point. I have been told by many colleagues, mainly Polish and Romanian, it was not that difficult to stay after Brexit so long as documents were in order. Such documents included tax and NI payment history.

 

It seems many workers left not because they wanted to but because they had to.

[youreavinalaff]

52 minutes ago, JayClay said:

What unemployed?

The current unemployment rate in UK is 3.8%. That's quite a lot of people.

[Mac Mickmanus]

3 minutes ago, youreavinalaff said:

That's a good point. I have been told by many colleagues, mainly Polish and Romanian, it was not that difficult to stay after Brexit so long as documents were in order. Such documents included tax and NI payment history.

 

It seems many workers left not because they wanted to but because they had to.

It was very easy for E.U citizens to say in the U.K after Brexit , six million managed to register online  and get long term permission to stay post Brexit . 

  Those working cash in hand and not paying taxes found it difficult to stay . 

[Mac Mickmanus]

2 hours ago, RayC said:

And people voted for that in the knowledge that fruit would be rotting in the fields because there aren't enough workers to pick the stuff? Seems a bit counter productive to me.

 

What exactly is wrong with unskilled Europeans apart from the fact that they are unskilled and European?

The farmers need to make the jobs more attractive to workers to encourage them to work .

  Exploiting poor Eastern Europeans to work for a pittance and under bad conditions  is no longer an option