Samut Prakarn immigration of hell - change to retirement visa almost made impossible

[Lemsta69]

34 minutes ago, Red Phoenix said:

I never used an Agent and am not living in the Bangkok area, so I cannot speak from experience, but hopefully AN-members reading this thread might provide the contact-details of bona-fide Visa Agents serving customers dealing with the Samut Prakan Imm office.

I asked before but got no responses. I think most ANers just assume that all offices support the use of visa agents and that said agents are easy to find.

[zzzzz]

10 minutes ago, Lemsta69 said:

Except that they don't service the SP office and if you want the Full Monty they send your passport to Lord only knows where! ????

yes somewhere else .....so what?
after it is completed and you have ur passport back
File a New tm30 at ur local office
BUT it seems ur on some ones radar>so might always now have trouble
I'd find out what days she has off and go in then  ????
 

[proton]

14 minutes ago, Lemsta69 said:

Except that they don't service the SP office and if you want the Full Monty they send your passport to Lord only knows where! ????

KK or Nan normally from there

[proton]

3 minutes ago, zzzzz said:

yes somewhere else .....so what?
after it is completed and you have ur passport back
File a New tm30 at ur local office
BUT it seems ur on some ones radar>so might always now have trouble
I'd find out what days she has off and go in then  ????
 

So what?- it's illegal to get extension from a province you are not living in at the time of application. What if you are asked for your 'previous' address in that province you have probably never even been to?

[Lemsta69]

14 minutes ago, zzzzz said:

yes somewhere else .....so what?
after it is completed and you have ur passport back
File a New tm30 at ur local office
BUT it seems ur on some ones radar>so might always now have trouble
I'd find out what days she has off and go in then  ????
 

I don't live in Samut Prakan, I'm asking on behalf of a friend I'm trying to help out.

Edited May 28, 2023 by Lemsta69

[FritsSikkink]

13 hours ago, chalawaan said:

You could try to complain to her boss, but, that may end badly.

 

Here are some questions to ask yourself: 

 

How much time you got left on your current stamp? 

 

Can you move provinces in that time?

 

Can you get a visa exempt entry by flying to anywhere nearby and returning, then move to another province?

 

Note you MUST enter the other country by their immigration channels not just sit in a transit lounge. It can be a same day return, no worries there. 

 

Can you go to Savannakhet and get a tourist visa, then use that time to move to another province? 

 

After all you've no kids.  

 

If you move to the other province, for goodness sake, do your TM 30 THERE within 24 Hours of flying back, try to arrange a new address before hand. At a pinch a hotel will do. I'd recommend Chiang Mai, because AIRPORT!

 

You can figure out the smoke season problem later, in all other respects it's a great place to live, we just go to the beach for the worst of the smoke, it's cheap if you keep away from tourist traps. 

 

You must do this new location TM30 immediately, because if you don't, when you go for your retirement visa exemption, they'll send you back to evil lady all over again. 

 

Note also that your "dad" visa extension becomes void once you depart, so you won't need a re entry permit. But they'll still ask you why you're at their office when they see your old stamps. 

 

Be clear they know you've moved away from your old place because, no kids. 

 

I know you may love your home, but this is Thailand as you understand, and sometimes, walking away from an impossible situation is the easiest way in the long term. 

 

I wish you all the best.

 

And there is always a solution. 

 

On Facebook there's a group called Thai Visa Advice, no connection to ASEAN now, and they are very very good at tricky situations like this. It's the private group with 51K members, not the imitation group of the same name. Just join up, and ask them, it's free. 

 

Chok Dee 

 

PS: You can register at a new province, and then return to your home while you move, it's not strictly by the book, but the risks are low if you keep away from the authorities, IE drive safely don't get drunk and arrested etc! How long till you have to leave the house? These are questions from you to consider, please don't reply to me because I'm only helping from my personal experience moving provinces and changing visa status at the same time. Just remember everything hangs on where you do your next address notification. Don't mess that up!

 

 

He has kids, who will go to university

[FritsSikkink]

12 hours ago, john donson said:

I complained to her boss, a few years ago, till, so was been told, they were about to throw me out of the office, while I insisted they help me sort this out as I was the only care giver for my children at that time, but did not bother them at all.

 

so for complaining to the boss, they are part of this big ... let's not get sued and use names that could be libel...

 

for the replies: I had all the documents as I always do, what is not clear? everything needed for a retirement visa and even more like documents of children's id card, tabien baan, birth certificate, pictures of them in school uniform in front of school logo (they tried to pull that one a few years ago, but had one on my phone but where is that listed on any immigration website), proof of payment of school, ...    where does it state you need all that info on a retirement visa ??? NOWHERE is for sure.... tricks to force you to use on of them connected agents.

 

While I was waiting for ZERO people waiting before me for 75 minutes , there were some agents with no documentation and a stack of passports going in and out in a few minutes...

 

13 counters to help but only a few really working... doing nothing at all... nice job...

 

most of them over there HARDLY speak any UNDERSTANDABLE English... the times I went there with my kids, they spoke to them instead of me, the adult parent...

 

suggesting I change province because of some corrupted evil IO ?

 

someone saying I have no kids?  what ? they are on holiday ... but I explained to them they will not be back before my extension expire...

 

you did read the title ...  almost ...

 

Only after I threaten to call the higher up, evil IO disappeared for some time, made me wait another 90 minutes before I got my extension... wanting to see my bankbook again, while I made copies and for the bank letters, stating 800k for 3 months and another 6 month statement from the bank

 

so with all documents, the magical in and out in 30 min as some other posters write, did not happen and spend 3 hours to what was supposed to be an easier option then parent of thai child, which initially was denied by same evil woman years ago, with all needed documentation presented...

 

to end the story... she told me, next year you leave thailand...

 

which I replied with... no I will be back, as I will have a few remaining months left before my child turns 20...

 

but let me guess, there will be a problem that I don't have a 12 month rental contract left, once again...  

 

the arrogance and incompetence and abuse of these people given little power...

 

 

 

Get a rental contract from your ex wife which states you don't pay rent. Bring your lawyer next time.

Edited May 28, 2023 by FritsSikkink

[john donson]

if you look up samut prakarn immigration in google

 

https://www.google.com/search?q=samut+prakan+immigration

 

you can look up tens or hundreds of reviews

 

the positive reviews probably are from agents as normal users have nothing positive to say

 

I am not the only one complaining about the incompetence, rudeness, other people seeing they are playing phone, chatting, during so called working hours, bad service, arrogance...

 

my ex wife's aunt worked at another immigration office, and when still married, never had any problem, ...  since divorce, with ex out for revenge, kids siding with me against her, I am pretty sure the evil IO was contacted (corruption, ...) to make my stay as difficult or impossible, as after the divorce, I had to go get an multi and leaving every 90 days or less... as locally they were doing everything to deny my normal application with money in the bank, documents and always asking for new... specially ex was hostile and did not provide any documents we agreed on in family court...

 

I went with a positive attitude, that I would get my retirement as again, had all the needed documents, but since the divorce every interaction has been negative because of this corrupted evil IO and her boss supporting her actions...

 

yeah her promise of me LEAVING thailand, wth.. none of her beeswax...

 

my ex intended that I left Thailand years ago and give up my kids leaving them behind under the supervision of ... a part time maid?  

 

but anyway, kids in uni now... I guess I will prepare a backup, I went on time last time, I will go on time next year... but wanted to share my experience...

 

 

[john donson]

27 minutes ago, FritsSikkink said:

Get a rental contract from your ex wife which states you don't pay rent. Bring your lawyer next time.

you obviously did not read the part of the HOSTILE EX

 

that agreed to do this in family divorce court, never did it actually, no repercussions for not following the agreement, lawyers asking 100k to write a simple WRIT to ask the court she would be forced, while the clerk at court bluntly replied:   she did nothing wrong, aka, nothing you can do about it...

 

bring the lawyer...also does not solve the puzzle if immigration is asking for a paper you cannot provide... and IO knows from day one, years ago, that ex is hostile and will never provide such document, even I have a divorce court agreement stating I could live there till kids are 20...  they are the ruler of the world that day, the corrupt IO to decide over your life and stay, higher than the judge/court/lawyer...

 

 

[NanLaew]

45 minutes ago, FritsSikkink said:

Get a rental contract from your ex wife which states you don't pay rent. Bring your lawyer next time.

Or get a rental agreement that says he does. Since the ex-wife isn't party to ANY reason for ANY extension the OP is seeking, unless they have the ex-wife's phone number or email contact, it's not as if they can check. Although the SP office presents themselves as inviolably incorruptible, I think it's sheer bloody-mindedness and xenophobia on behalf of this particular IO.

 

EDIT: Just read about the ex- being hostile. So fake a rental agreement.

 

Just wondering if the hostile ex- is a Facebook friend of this hostile IO? In that case, disregard all previous advice and move to another immigration jurisdiction.

Edited May 28, 2023 by NanLaew

[Neeranam]

45 minutes ago, john donson said:

if you look up samut prakarn immigration in google

 

https://www.google.com/search?q=samut+prakan+immigration

 

you can look up tens or hundreds of reviews

 

the positive reviews probably are from agents as normal users have nothing positive to say

 

I am not the only one complaining about the incompetence, rudeness, other people seeing they are playing phone, chatting, during so called working hours, bad service, arrogance...

 

my ex wife's aunt worked at another immigration office, and when still married, never had any problem, ...  since divorce, with ex out for revenge, kids siding with me against her, I am pretty sure the evil IO was contacted (corruption, ...) to make my stay as difficult or impossible, as after the divorce, I had to go get an multi and leaving every 90 days or less... as locally they were doing everything to deny my normal application with money in the bank, documents and always asking for new... specially ex was hostile and did not provide any documents we agreed on in family court...

 

I went with a positive attitude, that I would get my retirement as again, had all the needed documents, but since the divorce every interaction has been negative because of this corrupted evil IO and her boss supporting her actions...

 

yeah her promise of me LEAVING thailand, wth.. none of her beeswax...

 

my ex intended that I left Thailand years ago and give up my kids leaving them behind under the supervision of ... a part time maid?  

 

but anyway, kids in uni now... I guess I will prepare a backup, I went on time last time, I will go on time next year... but wanted to share my experience...

 

 

wow, go to the ombudsman

https://www.ombudsman.go.th/new/

[Neeranam]

One thing you have to learn, if you want a pleasant stay here, is that every Thai officer has their own kingdom. If you disrespect their kingdom, for example by going above their head, you will subsequently pay, they never forget. 

Once, I went to Nong Kai immigration, before Khon Kaen had one. I worked for a local university and went there with the head of the uni, a well known guy, as he was going to Nong Kai for a funeral. I walked into immigration with these senior guys in their white uniforms with an attitude of they  have to give me a visa. The officer demanded they leave and made me come back the next month by myself. This happened for 6 months until I decide to accept I had violated his kingdom and waiied him. Immediately, he accepted I had learned my lesson and stamped my visa for a year. 

Remember Thais don't like foreigners very much, especially ones who don't know the cultural ways, or ones who refuse to integrate into society. Your only hope here is to go and apologize, bring flowers, and basically beg for forgiveness.

[Pink Mist]

A trolling baiting post and reply have been removed. The Op is not about giving wai's to immigration or sticking with your own culture etc...

 

The OP is:

Samut Prakarn immigration of hell - change to retirement visa almost made impossible

[proton]

26 minutes ago, Neeranam said:

One thing you have to learn, if you want a pleasant stay here, is that every Thai officer has their own kingdom. If you disrespect their kingdom, for example by going above their head, you will subsequently pay, they never forget. 

Once, I went to Nong Kai immigration, before Khon Kaen had one. I worked for a local university and went there with the head of the uni, a well known guy, as he was going to Nong Kai for a funeral. I walked into immigration with these senior guys in their white uniforms with an attitude of they  have to give me a visa. The officer demanded they leave and made me come back the next month by myself. This happened for 6 months until I decide to accept I had violated his kingdom and waiied him. Immediately, he accepted I had learned my lesson and stamped my visa for a year. 

Remember Thais don't like foreigners very much, especially ones who don't know the cultural ways, or ones who refuse to integrate into society. Your only hope here is to go and apologize, bring flowers, and basically beg for forgiveness.

Not from me, they might get a wai after they have done their job, not before, respect has to be earned. When it comes to getting an extension I go in with their own laws printed out in English and Thai to show them if they want to throw a tantrum or put up made up obstacles in the way, last resort phone thier boss. 

[BritTim]

10 minutes ago, proton said:

Not from me, they might get a wai after they have done their job, not before, respect has to be earned. When it comes to getting an extension I go in with their own laws printed out in English and Thai to show them if they want to throw a tantrum or put up made up obstacles in the way, last resort phone thier boss. 

I appreciate that you believe approaching Thai officials in the same way you would deal with bureaucracy in your home country should work. Sometimes, indeed, it does. However, if you want to achieve better results more often I advise you to learn to behave like Thais looking for service from officials. Offer them a wai and have a plastic smile on your face while mentally fantasising about the torture you would love to subject them to if you ever had the opportunity. As said, other approaches might work, but are high risk.

[Neeranam]

3 minutes ago, BritTim said:

I appreciate that you believe approaching Thai officials in the same way you would deal with bureaucracy in your home country should work. Sometimes, indeed, it does. However, if you want to achieve better results more often I advise you to learn to behave like Thais looking for service from officials. Offer them a wai and have a plastic smile on your face while mentally fantasising about the torture you would love to subject them to if you ever had the opportunity. As said, other approaches might work, but are high risk.

Indeed, the risk isn't worth it, In my opinion. 

[ChaiyaTH]

Why did you not just show up with 1 or both of your kids once, they speak fluent Thai right, pretty sure after that introduction takes place once the old lady from hell would have little to mess around with anytime in the future. Bit too late for that now though.

 

She is evil, i guess so. She is wrong, I think so. But sometimes you have to be wiser and just solve the issue in the way possible, I would have tried the above and if no success use an agent or do visa extensions elsewhere. Who cares about the rental contract anyway, you could make one yourself even.

[Neeranam]

24 minutes ago, proton said:

Not from me, they might get a wai after they have done their job, not before, respect has to be earned. When it comes to getting an extension I go in with their own laws printed out in English and Thai to show them if they want to throw a tantrum or put up made up obstacles in the way, last resort phone thier boss. 

There's a wise proverb, 'when in Rome, do as the Romans do'.

[ubonr1971]

you should be experienced enough to know always take your wife along if you have one. Or a thai friend. 

 

when a govt official dislikes you theres no turning back. Move to a new province...Dealing with the government officials is one of the most hideous aspects of living here. Try owning a business...

[Neeranam]

22 minutes ago, ubonr1971 said:

when a govt official dislikes you theres no turning back. Move to a new province...Dealing with the government officials is one of the most hideous aspects of living here. Try owning a business...

Indeed, something that Thais and foreigners have to accept/tolerate.

[zzzzz]

3 hours ago, proton said:

So what?- it's illegal to get extension from a province you are not living in at the time of application. What if you are asked for your 'previous' address in that province you have probably never even been to?

Issuance of ALL visas/extensions is up to the discretion of the head officer> 
if it was illegal, could the visa agents advertise so freely?
 

[Lemsta69]

1 hour ago, Neeranam said:

There's a wise proverb, 'when in Rome, do as the Romans do'.

Indeed, and that's why I have assimilated into the local culture and happily pay an agent to get my extensions for me. It might be a tad more expensive than bribing an immigration officer with a bag of chips or a garland of flowers but I never have to set foot in an immigration office ever again, touch wood.

Edited May 28, 2023 by Lemsta69

[sidneybear]

4 hours ago, Neeranam said:

Your only hope here is to go and apologize, bring flowers, and basically beg for forgiveness.

That's pretty much all the OP can do, other than moving to a new district. Thais can read emotions very well, so this officer is well aware that the OP loathes her. If I were the OP, I'd be thinking of how best to grovel to this official - perhaps sending her a thank you note with a nice gift - and in doing so make my own life a lot easier. 

[Mr Meeseeks]

20 hours ago, john donson said:

If you live in Samut Prakarn and you have to visit this hell hole, you might know who I am referring to...

I used to have a company in Samut Prakharn. Once I went for a Non-B extension for work permit, and they would not extend my employee's visa unless I paid a 17,000thb bribe. I suspect the agent I used may have been in on the scam.

 

Horrible experience, but it gave me a push never to deal with them ever again.

Edited May 28, 2023 by Mr Meeseeks

[proton]

2 hours ago, zzzzz said:

Issuance of ALL visas/extensions is up to the discretion of the head officer> 
if it was illegal, could the visa agents advertise so freely?
 

Lots of things are illegal, including recreational cannabis, but they advertise. Discretion  does not include illegality, or should not.

[proton]

2 hours ago, Lemsta69 said:

Indeed, and that's why I have assimilated into the local culture and happily pay an agent to get my extensions for me. It might be a tad more expensive than bribing an immigration officer with a bag of chips or a garland of flowers but I never have to set foot in an immigration office ever again, touch wood.

Agents have nothing to do with local culture

[quake]

16 minutes ago, sidneybear said:

 I'd be thinking of how best to grovel to this official - perhaps sending her a thank you note with a nice gift - and in doing so make my own life a lot easier. 

Some posters should have more respect for themselves. 

 

[sidneybear]

6 minutes ago, quake said:

Some posters should have more respect for themselves. 

 

They're the ones with high blood pressure. 

[Lemsta69]

40 minutes ago, proton said:

Agents have nothing to do with local culture

Of course they do, this place runs on baksheesh.

[chilly07]

19 hours ago, john donson said:

I complained to her boss, a few years ago, till, so was been told, they were about to throw me out of the office, while I insisted they help me sort this out as I was the only care giver for my children at that time, but did not bother them at all.

 

so for complaining to the boss, they are part of this big ... let's not get sued and use names that could be libel...

 

for the replies: I had all the documents as I always do, what is not clear? everything needed for a retirement visa and even more like documents of children's id card, tabien baan, birth certificate, pictures of them in school uniform in front of school logo (they tried to pull that one a few years ago, but had one on my phone but where is that listed on any immigration website), proof of payment of school, ...    where does it state you need all that info on a retirement visa ??? NOWHERE is for sure.... tricks to force you to use on of them connected agents.

 

While I was waiting for ZERO people waiting before me for 75 minutes , there were some agents with no documentation and a stack of passports going in and out in a few minutes...

 

13 counters to help but only a few really working... doing nothing at all... nice job...

 

most of them over there HARDLY speak any UNDERSTANDABLE English... the times I went there with my kids, they spoke to them instead of me, the adult parent...

 

suggesting I change province because of some corrupted evil IO ?

 

someone saying I have no kids?  what ? they are on holiday ... but I explained to them they will not be back before my extension expire...

 

you did read the title ...  almost ...

 

Only after I threaten to call the higher up, evil IO disappeared for some time, made me wait another 90 minutes before I got my extension... wanting to see my bankbook again, while I made copies and for the bank letters, stating 800k for 3 months and another 6 month statement from the bank

 

so with all documents, the magical in and out in 30 min as some other posters write, did not happen and spend 3 hours to what was supposed to be an easier option then parent of thai child, which initially was denied by same evil woman years ago, with all needed documentation presented...

 

to end the story... she told me, next year you leave thailand...

 

which I replied with... no I will be back, as I will have a few remaining months left before my child turns 20...

 

but let me guess, there will be a problem that I don't have a 12 month rental contract left, once again...  

 

the arrogance and incompetence and abuse of these people given little power...

 

 

 

Take note of the agents bringing in piles of passports and use that agent