Are Thai names unique?

[Lorry]

Thai first names, e.g. Somchai, are not unique and can easily be changed. 

I heard last names are unique for only one family (so they cannot be changed?),

so the full name would be unique for only one person. 

 

Is this correct?

[Chicksaw]

1 hour ago, Lorry said:

Is this correct?

No. I know a Thai woman who changed both her first and last name on the basis of advice from a fortune-teller.

 

I guess what's unique (what identifies, e.g., their high schools/college/employment records) is their ID card (Baat Prachachon) which stays with them from birth to death.

Edited May 28, 2023 by Chicksaw

[blackcab]

Thai citizens can change their first name and surname. There is a somewhat well known case of a Thai man who really did change his name to Khun Heangjobshappylife Makelifebetter. Which, to be fair, is fairly unique.

 

[Felton Jarvis]

I think their names are pretty doggone unique. I know a woman named “Pisella Pis”.  She asks people to call her “Pissy”.  I don’t think anyone has given her details of what her name means in English. ????

[CharlieH]

I know someone who didn't just change his name, but that of his wife and 2 daughters. The whole family got a new (family) name.

[Mac Mickmanus]

1 hour ago, blackcab said:

Thai citizens can change their first name and surname. There is a somewhat well known case of a Thai man who really did change his name to Khun Heangjobshappylife Makelifebetter. Which, to be fair, is fairly unique.

 

How do they go about officially changing their names ?

[scorecard]

5 hours ago, Chicksaw said:

No. I know a Thai woman who changed both her first and last name on the basis of advice from a fortune-teller.

 

I guess what's unique (what identifies, e.g., their high schools/college/employment records) is their ID card (Baat Prachachon) which stays with them from birth to death.

Correct. And I can confirm that last name can be changed in the case of legal adoption. 

Edited May 28, 2023 by scorecard

[Moonlover]

My wife has had 3 surnames during her life. Her family name, her 1st husband's name and now mine. 

[FriendlyFarang]

6 hours ago, Lorry said:

Thai first names, e.g. Somchai, are not unique and can easily be changed. 

I heard last names are unique for only one family (so they cannot be changed?),

so the full name would be unique for only one person. 

 

Is this correct?

Family names are supposed to be for one family, and afaik today they can’t change their surname to one of another family. But before the internet it was difficult to keep track of this, so different families with the same surname exist, they are relatively unique, but not 100%.

[mahjongguy]

If you want to change your surname to match that of an existing family to which you are not related, you must get permission from the nominal head of that family.

[rwill]

When my wife went to change her last name to Williams some other Thais had already used the name.  She would have had to get permission from those people to use the same last name.  I told her just to use a different character for the last 's', ษ, and that was ok as no one had used that spelling before.

 

I read an article several years ago that you can tell chinese families who had become Thai because the last names are a lot longer as they couldn't use ones that had already been taken.  

[LukKrueng]

5 hours ago, Felton Jarvis said:

I think their names are pretty doggone unique. I know a woman named “Pisella Pis”.  She asks people to call her “Pissy”.  I don’t think anyone has given her details of what her name means in English. ????

I know many western guys named Richard and they ask people to call them Dick.   I don’t think anyone has given them details of what their name means in English. ????

[LukKrueng]

8 hours ago, Lorry said:

I heard last names are unique for only one family (so they cannot be changed?),

so the full name would be unique for only one person. 

 

Is this correct?

During King Rama 5 the royal court grew a lot compared to previous kings due to the fact that he had many children - all with royal titles. When Rama 6 became king it was very difficult to distinguish 1 person from another by 1st name only (as there were no family names back then) so 1 would have to be described by his/her name and how they were related (son/daughter of etc') so King Rama 6 has decided all Thai people should have a family name, but the family names must be unique. So every Thai head of family had to choose a family name and register it with the local government office (these days it is done at the district level). Each application was noted with date and time and all requests were sent to Bangkok. In case more than 1 person asked for the same family name - the 1 who was the 1st to request it got it. So, yes, basically all THAI family names were and still are unique. The only way to "get into" an existing Thai family name is by being born to the family or for women to marry into the family. Another option was to get a permission from the "creator" of the family name, so this option today only exists for newly formed family names that the "creator" is still alive (I doubt any of the people that lived during King Rama 6 is still alive today...).

As for foreign family names - this is fairly new thing in Thailand. Up until about 35 years ago a Thai woman that officially married a non Thai would have lost her rights to purchase land and own more than 49% of a business.  So at that time there was no point for a mixed couple living in Thailand to register their marriage and for the woman to take her husband's name. After that law was changed there were more and more Thai women that took their foreign husband's name thus you can see now more and more Thai people with non Thai family name, and as western family names are far from unique, you have now many non unique "Thai" family names.

Also, as the original family names were "created" over 100 years ago (4+ generations) you might find more than 1 person with the same family name and they are seemingly unrelated, although I am pretty sure that if they search for the origin of the family name they will find that they are somehow related.

 

The process to apply for a change of family name is pretty much the same as it was over 100 years ago. 1 has to go to the district office, register the new family name. The request is then stamped with date and time and passed on to the central office in Bangkok. It takes some time before the name is approved or rejected. I am not sure about current rules, but at least until about 20 years ago the family name had to be a THAI name, with a Thai meaning. That means that 1 couldn't even apply for a family name such as Smith/Rogers or any other name with no actual meaning in the Thai language, unless the name change was due to marriage with a person holding such family name.

 

From Wikipedia (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Thai_name): For centuries, inhabitants of Thailand, formerly known as Siam, did not have surnames. They identified themselves by referring to their parents' given names or the place they resided. The Siamese government started recording data on its citizens during the reign of King Rama V (1868–1910). The data recorded consisted of birth dates, dates of death, and household members. It was difficult to distinguish between citizens as many shared the same name. In 1912, two years after King Rama VI ascended to the throne, he declared that a birth, death, and marriage registration system would be instituted in Siam. Everyone had to bear a surname to identify themselves properly. In 1913, the first Surname Act was promulgated.^[1]

[blackcab]

7 hours ago, Mac Mickmanus said:

How do they go about officially changing their names ?

 

Go to the District Office and apply.

[brianthainess]

7 hours ago, Mac Mickmanus said:

How do they go about officially changing their names ?

Go to their Amphur name changed in about 15min. Their ID number remains the same for ever.

[brianthainess]

3 hours ago, mahjongguy said:

If you want to change your surname to match that of an existing family to which you are not related, you must get permission from the nominal head of that family.

Why would that be necessary when their ID number that remains the same, Finger prints, and new photo, would be different from the other family.? 

[brianthainess]

1 hour ago, LukKrueng said:

I know many western guys named Richard and they ask people to call them Dick.   I don’t think anyone has given them details of what their name means in English. ????

Also the opposite from Dick as this Thai name suggests.. 

[Freddy42OZ]

2 hours ago, rwill said:

When my wife went to change her last name to Williams some other Thais had already used the name.  She would have had to get permission from those people to use the same last name.  I told her just to use a different character for the last 's', ษ, and that was ok as no one had used that spelling before.

 

I read an article several years ago that you can tell chinese families who had become Thai because the last names are a lot longer as they couldn't use ones that had already been taken.  

If she's changing her name to Williams why would she be spelling it in Thai?

 

[Goat]

1 hour ago, LukKrueng said:

During King Rama 5 the royal court grew a lot compared to previous kings due to the fact that he had many children - all with royal titles. When Rama 6 became king it was very difficult to distinguish 1 person from another by 1st name only (as there were no family names back then) so 1 would have to be described by his/her name and how they were related (son/daughter of etc') so King Rama 6 has decided all Thai people should have a family name, but the family names must be unique. So every Thai head of family had to choose a family name and register it with the local government office (these days it is done at the district level). Each application was noted with date and time and all requests were sent to Bangkok. In case more than 1 person asked for the same family name - the 1 who was the 1st to request it got it. So, yes, basically all THAI family names were and still are unique. The only way to "get into" an existing Thai family name is by being born to the family or for women to marry into the family. Another option was to get a permission from the "creator" of the family name, so this option today only exists for newly formed family names that the "creator" is still alive (I doubt any of the people that lived during King Rama 6 is still alive today...).

As for foreign family names - this is fairly new thing in Thailand. Up until about 35 years ago a Thai woman that officially married a non Thai would have lost her rights to purchase land and own more than 49% of a business.  So at that time there was no point for a mixed couple living in Thailand to register their marriage and for the woman to take her husband's name. After that law was changed there were more and more Thai women that took their foreign husband's name thus you can see now more and more Thai people with non Thai family name, and as western family names are far from unique, you have now many non unique "Thai" family names.

Also, as the original family names were "created" over 100 years ago (4+ generations) you might find more than 1 person with the same family name and they are seemingly unrelated, although I am pretty sure that if they search for the origin of the family name they will find that they are somehow related.

 

The process to apply for a change of family name is pretty much the same as it was over 100 years ago. 1 has to go to the district office, register the new family name. The request is then stamped with date and time and passed on to the central office in Bangkok. It takes some time before the name is approved or rejected. I am not sure about current rules, but at least until about 20 years ago the family name had to be a THAI name, with a Thai meaning. That means that 1 couldn't even apply for a family name such as Smith/Rogers or any other name with no actual meaning in the Thai language, unless the name change was due to marriage with a person holding such family name.

 

From Wikipedia (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Thai_name????For centuries, inhabitants of Thailand, formerly known as Siam, did not have surnames. They identified themselves by referring to their parents' given names or the place they resided. The Siamese government started recording data on its citizens during the reign of King Rama V (1868–1910). The data recorded consisted of birth dates, dates of death, and household members. It was difficult to distinguish between citizens as many shared the same name. In 1912, two years after King Rama VI ascended to the throne, he declared that a birth, death, and marriage registration system would be instituted in Siam. Everyone had to bear a surname to identify themselves properly. In 1913, the first Surname Act was promulgated.^[1]

Great informative factual post.

So much better than the usual made up barstool stuff/opinions from people with no clue.

Thanks

[SAFETY FIRST]

22 minutes ago, Goat said:

Great informative factual post.

So much better than the usual made up barstool stuff/opinions from people with no clue.

Thanks

Agree, sadly some members are here to waffle and make stuff up, replying with their perhaps and maybe's 

 

And it doesn't take long to get off topic, all the reply comments discussing processes and ease of changing people's names 

 

 

Edited May 29, 2023 by SAFETY FIRST

[Neeranam]

When I chose my Thai name, I was told I couldn't choose one that was already in use. 'Neeranam' wasn't allowed as it means 'no name'.

[scorecard]

4 hours ago, scorecard said:

Correct. And I can confirm that last name can be changed in the case of legal adoption. 

More.

 

In this case the original family name was a Thai family name selected from the periodic list of Thai family names blessed by the Thai king (King Bhumiphol), and was changed to a very typical western family name.

 

Approved by the ministry as part of their approval for the adoption to take place. 

[khunPer]

3 hours ago, LukKrueng said:

During King Rama 5 the royal court grew a lot compared to previous kings due to the fact that he had many children - all with royal titles. When Rama 6 became king it was very difficult to distinguish 1 person from another by 1st name only (as there were no family names back then) so 1 would have to be described by his/her name and how they were related (son/daughter of etc') so King Rama 6 has decided all Thai people should have a family name, but the family names must be unique. So every Thai head of family had to choose a family name and register it with the local government office (these days it is done at the district level). Each application was noted with date and time and all requests were sent to Bangkok. In case more than 1 person asked for the same family name - the 1 who was the 1st to request it got it. So, yes, basically all THAI family names were and still are unique. The only way to "get into" an existing Thai family name is by being born to the family or for women to marry into the family. Another option was to get a permission from the "creator" of the family name, so this option today only exists for newly formed family names that the "creator" is still alive (I doubt any of the people that lived during King Rama 6 is still alive today...).

As for foreign family names - this is fairly new thing in Thailand. Up until about 35 years ago a Thai woman that officially married a non Thai would have lost her rights to purchase land and own more than 49% of a business.  So at that time there was no point for a mixed couple living in Thailand to register their marriage and for the woman to take her husband's name. After that law was changed there were more and more Thai women that took their foreign husband's name thus you can see now more and more Thai people with non Thai family name, and as western family names are far from unique, you have now many non unique "Thai" family names.

Also, as the original family names were "created" over 100 years ago (4+ generations) you might find more than 1 person with the same family name and they are seemingly unrelated, although I am pretty sure that if they search for the origin of the family name they will find that they are somehow related.

 

The process to apply for a change of family name is pretty much the same as it was over 100 years ago. 1 has to go to the district office, register the new family name. The request is then stamped with date and time and passed on to the central office in Bangkok. It takes some time before the name is approved or rejected. I am not sure about current rules, but at least until about 20 years ago the family name had to be a THAI name, with a Thai meaning. That means that 1 couldn't even apply for a family name such as Smith/Rogers or any other name with no actual meaning in the Thai language, unless the name change was due to marriage with a person holding such family name.

 

From Wikipedia (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Thai_name????For centuries, inhabitants of Thailand, formerly known as Siam, did not have surnames. They identified themselves by referring to their parents' given names or the place they resided. The Siamese government started recording data on its citizens during the reign of King Rama V (1868–1910). The data recorded consisted of birth dates, dates of death, and household members. It was difficult to distinguish between citizens as many shared the same name. In 1912, two years after King Rama VI ascended to the throne, he declared that a birth, death, and marriage registration system would be instituted in Siam. Everyone had to bear a surname to identify themselves properly. In 1913, the first Surname Act was promulgated.^[1]

That is correct.

In the beginning all families needed to create a family name of two unique sounding syllables, and when there where no more options available with two syllables, it became three syllables and so on.

Those registering Thai family names later, as many Chinese migrants, have quite long family names, as they needed four or even more unique sounding syllables in the name. So if a family name is long – i.e. many syllables – it's a fairly late registered name.

[Lorry]

3 hours ago, LukKrueng said:

During King Rama 5 the royal court grew a lot compared to previous kings due to the fact that he had many children - all with royal titles. When Rama 6 became king it was very difficult to distinguish 1 person from another by 1st name only (as there were no family names back then) so 1 would have to be described by his/her name and how they were related (son/daughter of etc') so King Rama 6 has decided all Thai people should have a family name, but the family names must be unique. So every Thai head of family had to choose a family name and register it with the local government office (these days it is done at the district level). Each application was noted with date and time and all requests were sent to Bangkok. In case more than 1 person asked for the same family name - the 1 who was the 1st to request it got it. So, yes, basically all THAI family names were and still are unique. The only way to "get into" an existing Thai family name is by being born to the family or for women to marry into the family. Another option was to get a permission from the "creator" of the family name, so this option today only exists for newly formed family names that the "creator" is still alive (I doubt any of the people that lived during King Rama 6 is still alive today...).

As for foreign family names - this is fairly new thing in Thailand. Up until about 35 years ago a Thai woman that officially married a non Thai would have lost her rights to purchase land and own more than 49% of a business.  So at that time there was no point for a mixed couple living in Thailand to register their marriage and for the woman to take her husband's name. After that law was changed there were more and more Thai women that took their foreign husband's name thus you can see now more and more Thai people with non Thai family name, and as western family names are far from unique, you have now many non unique "Thai" family names.

Also, as the original family names were "created" over 100 years ago (4+ generations) you might find more than 1 person with the same family name and they are seemingly unrelated, although I am pretty sure that if they search for the origin of the family name they will find that they are somehow related.

 

The process to apply for a change of family name is pretty much the same as it was over 100 years ago. 1 has to go to the district office, register the new family name. The request is then stamped with date and time and passed on to the central office in Bangkok. It takes some time before the name is approved or rejected. I am not sure about current rules, but at least until about 20 years ago the family name had to be a THAI name, with a Thai meaning. That means that 1 couldn't even apply for a family name such as Smith/Rogers or any other name with no actual meaning in the Thai language, unless the name change was due to marriage with a person holding such family name.

 

From Wikipedia (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Thai_name): For centuries, inhabitants of Thailand, formerly known as Siam, did not have surnames. They identified themselves by referring to their parents' given names or the place they resided. The Siamese government started recording data on its citizens during the reign of King Rama V (1868–1910). The data recorded consisted of birth dates, dates of death, and household members. It was difficult to distinguish between citizens as many shared the same name. In 1912, two years after King Rama VI ascended to the throne, he declared that a birth, death, and marriage registration system would be instituted in Siam. Everyone had to bear a surname to identify themselves properly. In 1913, the first Surname Act was promulgated.^[1]

Thank you. 

Reading through your post,  and through the posts of others, there actually is a complete list of all family names used in Thailand,  even the foreign ones?

And all THAI family names have a meaning? I didn't know that (I knew many have a meaning,  didn't know that's a rule)

[rwill]

3 hours ago, Freddy42OZ said:

If she's changing her name to Williams why would she be spelling it in Thai?

 

Because they actually use the Thai language on Thai ID's.  This is the official Thai document for her name change.  Williams in Thai is about in the middle in a little bolder text.

[Lorry]

1 minute ago, khunPer said:

That is correct.

In the beginning all families needed to create a family name of two unique sounding syllables, and when there where no more options available with two syllables, it became three syllables and so on.

Those registering Thai family names later, as many Chinese migrants, have quite long family names, as they needed four or even more unique sounding syllables in the name. So if a family name is long – i.e. many syllables – it's a fairly late registered name.

I know a Thai guy who uses a shortened 1-syllable form of his 2-syllable family name for written and spoken daily business correspondence. I am not talking about cheu len, he signs letters "first name + abbreviated form of family name". 

Is this common?

[KhunBENQ]

18 minutes ago, rwill said:

Because they actually use the Thai language on Thai ID's. 

The Thai spelling is THE one and only official name.

Transcription often does not follow unique rules.

So in our family there are three different English spellings of the surname in ID and passports ("..ornboo...". "...onboo...", "...onbu...". Last one following some published rules (RTGS).

Same chaos like geographical names, who knows transcribed by the rules: Phatthaya, Chom Thian, ...?

[spidermike007]

One of the most unique names I heard was a beautiful young receptionist at a hotel. Her name was Kittiporn. Had to work hard to keep a straight face, with that one. Obviously a bizarre nickname. 

 

Some other strange Thai names? Surassa Fhaumnuaypol, Charunee Chaimongkhon, and Ratnapon Jaturapattarapong.

[KhunBENQ]

A practical example of name change:

one granddaughter from a former relation (not officially married as usual) got the surname of the father. He ran away when she was two years old and didn't care much (a rare story).

When she became 20 she quickly went to the amphoe and changed back to mothers name.

[Dogmatix]

15 hours ago, blackcab said:

Thai citizens can change their first name and surname. There is a somewhat well known case of a Thai man who really did change his name to Khun Heangjobshappylife Makelifebetter. Which, to be fair, is fairly unique.

 

I am very skeptical about this story. It is pretty easy to photoshop up an ID card like that.  The rules are that you can choose a new surname that is not in already in use.  First, middle names and surnames must have meaning in the Thai dictionary and must be deemed appropriate and polite by the district office official. It is pretty obvious that neither of these names would pass either of those tests. I have been to the district office to reserve a Thai name while applying for Thai citizenship and it was clear that they take the rules very seriously and wouldn't allow nonsense names like that.