Toyota CEO: "This new engine will destroy the entire EV industry !

[Social Media]

 

[gargamon]

Cool. I'll buy one for sure if I'm still kicking.

 

H-2. Hindenburg-2. I wonder if they thought the name out... 

[BangkokHank]

What he means is that it SHOULD destroy the whole EV industry. I hope he's right, because EVs make ZERO sense. I hope he is not underestimating the lobby that he's up against though.

[eisfeld]

The Toyota CEO never said that. You can find on the same channel supposed quotes by other car manufacturer CEOs saying the exact same thing. It's just very low quality waffling and repeating the same thing over several times mixed with stock footage in the video without any substantial information ????  Video clickbait.

[placeholder]

6 minutes ago, BangkokHank said:

What he means is that it SHOULD destroy the whole EV industry. I hope he's right, because EVs make ZERO sense. I hope he is not underestimating the lobby that he's up against though.

'well, the bad news is even if these hydrogen vehicles are successful, that will be because the cost of hydrogen has come way down. The cost is coming down and that's happening because electricity generated by renewables is being used to create hydrogen from water.

[gargamon]

EVs will be the same as the compact fluorescent lightbulb. A big thing for 20 years then poof, gone. I don't even think they make those bulbs anymore. 

 

I don't think Elon will like this if it happens. 

[OneMoreFarang]

Imagine you have the choice between one vehicle which needs hours to be refilled or recharged and another one which can be refilled or recharged within minutes. Which one would you prefer?

 

It won't be possible to charge modern big powerful batteries much faster with the existing electrical grid. And just swapping batteries, like on a gasoline station, seems to be no option.

 

It is pretty obvious that the current versions of new vehicles are far from optimal. I am sure in a few decades people will think: How did they ever think that "2020 technology" will be the future.

[bignok]

People like the sound of fuel cars.

[eisfeld]

2 hours ago, OneMoreFarang said:

Imagine you have the choice between one vehicle which needs hours to be refilled or recharged and another one which can be refilled or recharged within minutes. Which one would you prefer?

 

It won't be possible to charge modern big powerful batteries much faster with the existing electrical grid. And just swapping batteries, like on a gasoline station, seems to be no option.

 

It is pretty obvious that the current versions of new vehicles are far from optimal. I am sure in a few decades people will think: How did they ever think that "2020 technology" will be the future.

Neither fossil fuel nor hydrogen nor battery powered vehicles are optimal. They all have some downsides. The difference is that with fossil fuel and hydrogen there is no known way to remove their downsides like emissions or storage/safety issues. We really need to get away from the polution and I don't ever want to whitness a hydrogen tank exploding anywhere near me. But with battery powered vehicles the current limitations like charge times can be solved. Funnily enough just earlier this week Toyota announced a breakthrough with solid-state batteries which it wants to mass produce 2027/2028 that allows for a range of 1200km and charge time of 10 minutes. I don't see why the grid would be a big issue. You rarely need fast charging times like these when you can slowly charge a vehicle at home or at work. And when you need it then just go to a super fast charging station.

 

https://www.reuters.com/business/autos-transportation/toyota-market-next-gen-battery-evs-2026-built-by-new-ev-unit-2023-06-13/

Edited June 16, 2023 by eisfeld

[KhunLA]

7 hours ago, gargamon said:

EVs will be the same as the compact fluorescent lightbulb. A big thing for 20 years then poof, gone. I don't even think they make those bulbs anymore. 

 

I don't think Elon will like this if it happens. 

If I, the wife gets 20 yrs out of our EV, she'll be more than happy.

 

8 hours ago, BangkokHank said:

What he means is that it SHOULD destroy the whole EV industry. I hope he's right, because EVs make ZERO sense. I hope he is not underestimating the lobby that he's up against though.

They make perfect sense to us, and IF you had one, you'd probably understand why.

 

Experience usually is a better judge of things, over barstool gossip.

[rwill]

And then there ideas like this.  Put wireless chargers in the roads.

 

Wirelessly Charge Electric Vehicles | Electreon

[JBChiangRai]

This is nothing new and this is the second repeat of this engine here on this forum.

 

It's a normal petrol engine that has it's fuel delivery changed and optimised for something else inflammable - hydrogen.

 

So you use electricity to generate hydrogen, pressurise it, store it, transport it by road to the filling stations and then put in your noisy car with those 2,000 moving parts and high servicing costs, it makes absolute sense to introduce all these intermediate steps instead of putting the electricity directly into your silent EV car with 20 moving parts and low servicing costs - NOT!

[kennw]

5 hours ago, eisfeld said:

Neither fossil fuel nor hydrogen nor battery powered vehicles are optimal. They all have some downsides. The difference is that with fossil fuel and hydrogen there is no known way to remove their downsides like emissions or storage/safety issues. We really need to get away from the polution and I don't ever want to whitness a hydrogen tank exploding anywhere near me. But with battery powered vehicles the current limitations like charge times can be solved. Funnily enough just earlier this week Toyota announced a breakthrough with solid-state batteries which it wants to mass produce 2027/2028 that allows for a range of 1200km and charge time of 10 minutes. I don't see why the grid would be a big issue. You rarely need fast charging times like these when you can slowly charge a vehicle at home or at work. And when you need it then just go to a super fast charging station.

 

https://www.reuters.com/business/autos-transportation/toyota-market-next-gen-battery-evs-2026-built-by-new-ev-unit-2023-06-13/

Little difference between a Hydrogen tank or CNG tanks that large number of truck are using in Thailand now and for years already. And since only 16% of electricity in Thailand is produced by renewable sources what is your motivation.? 

[Enoon]

8 hours ago, OneMoreFarang said:

Imagine you have the choice between one vehicle which needs hours to be refilled or recharged and another one which can be refilled or recharged within minutes. Which one would you prefer?

 

It won't be possible to charge modern big powerful batteries much faster with the existing electrical grid. And just swapping batteries, like on a gasoline station, seems to be no option.

 

It is pretty obvious that the current versions of new vehicles are far from optimal. I am sure in a few decades people will think: How did they ever think that "2020 technology" will be the future.

 

Let's look at a graph, that's always fun:

 

 

 

 

 

 

[Lacessit]

1 hour ago, JBChiangRai said:

This is nothing new and this is the second repeat of this engine here on this forum.

 

It's a normal petrol engine that has it's fuel delivery changed and optimised for something else inflammable - hydrogen.

 

So you use electricity to generate hydrogen, pressurise it, store it, transport it by road to the filling stations and then put in your noisy car with those 2,000 moving parts and high servicing costs, it makes absolute sense to introduce all these intermediate steps instead of putting the electricity directly into your silent EV car with 20 moving parts and low servicing costs - NOT!

The CSIRO in Australia has already succeeded in converting hydrogen to ammonia - one atom of nitrogen, three atoms of hydrogen. Much easier to store and transport as a pressurised liquid, and non-flammable. The Chinese are very interested.

Imagine manufacturing hydrogen from electrolysis of sea water with the abundance of solar energy in Australia, then converting to ammonia with membrane technology. Ship to Shanghai, reconstitute as hydrogen.

All it needs is development funding, although IMO quite a few roadblocks will be thrown up by vested interests.

 

[Yellowtail]

3 minutes ago, Lacessit said:

The CSIRO in Australia has already succeeded in converting hydrogen to ammonia - one atom of nitrogen, three atoms of hydrogen. Much easier to store and transport as a pressurised liquid, and non-flammable. The Chinese are very interested.

Imagine manufacturing hydrogen from electrolysis of sea water with the abundance of solar energy in Australia, then converting to ammonia with membrane technology. Ship to Shanghai, reconstitute as hydrogen.

All it needs is development funding, although IMO quite a few roadblocks will be thrown up by vested interests.

 

The greedy oil companies will NEVER let it happen!

[KhunLA]

9 hours ago, OneMoreFarang said:

Imagine you have the choice between one vehicle which needs hours to be refilled or recharged and another one which can be refilled or recharged within minutes. Which one would you prefer?

 

It won't be possible to charge modern big powerful batteries much faster with the existing electrical grid. And just swapping batteries, like on a gasoline station, seems to be no option.

 

It is pretty obvious that the current versions of new vehicles are far from optimal. I am sure in a few decades people will think: How did they ever think that "2020 technology" will be the future.

That's a bit of a stretch, unless at home, then technically, takes less time to top up, that's if you had a petrol pump at home.  30 seconds to plug in & 30 seconds to unplug ... if you're old and slow.

 

And so much cheaper, or free with excess solar at the house.

 

On the road, it comes down to 'time management', and yes, it takes 30-45 minutes to top up.   But as mentioned a hundred times by many, that break after driving 3+ hrs is very welcome.

 

I save anything needed to be done while on the fly / O&A for those charging times.   Check for hotel & restaurants that we're headed to.  Fine tune the research, as now know if staying in the area, or moving on. 

 

If all done, then could always troll AN, since haven't peeked for 3+ hours, or catch up on family & friends on FB.   Maybe edit those photos I stopped and took at that viewpoint.  Was that a bird ?

 

Car is usually done topped up or 80% before we are.  Just stopping to smell the coffee, and maybe some cheesecake, or that double pork burger, or some Kha Moo, if hungry ... works for us.  Along with being, so much cheaper than petrol.

YMMV

 

On topic, the hydrogen thingy does seem to be a viable option to replace that disgusting diesel fuel for long haul trucking industry, but that's about it.   Totally impractical/redundant pollutant as a personal transport fuel.

Edited June 17, 2023 by KhunLA

[JBChiangRai]

10 minutes ago, Lacessit said:

The CSIRO in Australia has already succeeded in converting hydrogen to ammonia - one atom of nitrogen, three atoms of hydrogen. Much easier to store and transport as a pressurised liquid, and non-flammable. The Chinese are very interested.

Imagine manufacturing hydrogen from electrolysis of sea water with the abundance of solar energy in Australia, then converting to ammonia with membrane technology. Ship to Shanghai, reconstitute as hydrogen.

All it needs is development funding, although IMO quite a few roadblocks will be thrown up by vested interests.

 

Great, another step, why not convert the electricity to pink ouffle dust first? more steps to avoid putting that electricity straight into your car.

[Yellowtail]

2 minutes ago, JBChiangRai said:

Great, another step, why not convert the electricity to pink ouffle dust first? more steps to avoid putting that electricity straight into your car.

The electricity that comes straight from the magic hole in the wall? 

[JBChiangRai]

3 minutes ago, Yellowtail said:

The electricity that comes straight from the magic hole in the wall? 

Or in my case from the 54 solar panels on the roof

 

Aka that magic orangey white thing in the sky

[Yellowtail]

9 minutes ago, JBChiangRai said:

Or in my case from the 54 solar panels on the roof

 

Aka that magic orangey white thing in the sky

You have 54 solar panels on the roof of your car? 

[JBChiangRai]

1 minute ago, Yellowtail said:

You have 54 solar panels on the roof of your car? 

I am going to assume that was a rhetorical question.

[kwak250]

22 minutes ago, KhunLA said:

That's a bit of a stretch, unless at home, then technically, takes less time to top up, if you had a petrol pump at home.  30 seconds to plug in & 30 seconds to unplug ... if you're old an slow.

 

On the road, it comes down to 'time management', and yes, it takes 30-45 minutes to top up.   But as mentioned a hundred times by many, that break after driving 3+ hrs is very welcome.

 

I save anything needed to be done while on the fly / O&A for those charging times.   Check for hotel & restaurants that we're headed to.  Fine tune the research, as now know if staying in the area, or moving on. 

 

If all done, then could always troll AN, since haven't peeked for 3+ hours, or catch up on family & friends on FB.   Maybe edit those photos I stopped and took at that viewpoint.  Was that a bird ?

 

Car is usually done topped up or 80% before we are.  Just stopping to smell the coffee, and maybe some cheesecake, or that double pork burger, or some Kha Moo, if hungry ... works for us.

YMMV

 

On topic, the hydrogen thingy does seem to be a viable option to replace that disgusting diesel fuel for long haul trucking industry, but that's about it.   Totally impractical/redundant pollutant as a personal transport fuel.

It is good to stop after 3+ hours but being restricted to do so at a charging outlet would not be what most people want.

 

Still going to use my disgusting diesel or gasoline vehicle's for now though.

 

I get annoyed when the car in front at the pump pays with a card and the cashier has to walk off.

 

Last thing I want to do is catch up on fb or edit photos while my car is getting a trickle charge.

 

 

 

 

[KhunLA]

8 minutes ago, Yellowtail said:

You have 54 solar panels on the roof of your car? 

On top ... why didn't we think of that.   We drag ours behind us ...

[foreverlomsak]

8 hours ago, bignok said:

People like the sound of fuel cars.

especially in Thailand, where they can make as much noise as they want and kick out as much black smoke as they can, and the authorities do nothing.

[Yellowtail]

7 minutes ago, JBChiangRai said:

I am going to assume that was a rhetorical question.

You implied you were putting that electricity straight into your car. Clearly you are not. 

[KhunLA]

6 minutes ago, kwak250 said:

I get annoyed when the car in front at the pump pays with a card and the cashier has to walk off.

Life is really going to suck for you, as the world goes cashless transactions.

[JBChiangRai]

Just now, Yellowtail said:

You implied you were putting that electricity straight into your car. Clearly you are not. 

Where else does it go? 

 

Perhaps I convert it to aforementioned pink ouffle dust first? then back again to electricity to put in my car?

[JBChiangRai]

9 minutes ago, kwak250 said:

It is good to stop after 3+ hours but being restricted to do so at a charging outlet would not be what most people want.

 

Still going to use my disgusting diesel or gasoline vehicle's for now though.

 

I get annoyed when the car in front at the pump pays with a card and the cashier has to walk off.

 

Last thing I want to do is catch up on fb or edit photos while my car is getting a trickle charge.

 

 

 

 

I think what you say is a common misconception.

 

You arrive at the service station, plug your car in, go for a pee, order a coffee or sandwich and by the time you have consumed them, you are on your way again. Maybe 20-30 minutes later.

 

Generally, you waste less time than filling up with Petrol or Diesel, you don't need to hang around during the refuel process whilst the guy spills fuel all over your car.

[Yellowtail]

4 minutes ago, JBChiangRai said:

I think what you say is a common misconception.

 

You arrive at the service station, plug your car in, go for a pee, order a coffee or sandwich and by the time you have consumed them, you are on your way again. Maybe 20-30 minutes later.

 

Generally, you waste less time than filling up with Petrol or Diesel, you don't need to hang around during the refuel process whilst the guy spills fuel all over your car.

How far do you get on 20–30-minute charge?