Anyone been back to Australia for the forced 2 year exile to move pension to Thailand?

[georgegeorgia]

8 hours ago, itsari said:

It is what it is because nobody being ripped off by the Australian goverment is ready to do something about it .

Sadly that incudes my self.

I'm thinking when was this legislation brought in ? do we perhaps in all my wisdom I'm thinking during John Howard's era?

 

[Olmate]

11 hours ago, KhunHeineken said:

Does the same to me.

 

I outed him for posting he was on a vet's pension, and then posting he was on an aged pension, and you can't be on both, so then he started personally attacking me, but then reporting me to the Mods when he copped it back.  Weak as p*ss in my opinion.

 

11 hours ago, georgegeorgia said:

Yes he did the same to me 

I doubt though he is working for the "other " board ,he doesn't have the intelligence 

He just likes to insult posters then if they give it back , he shouts "you can't say that ,I can only insult you !!

Put me in ignore I have told him ...but no he won't ...then complains about my posts 

 

He is the type that watched a nude sex  tv show ,watched it right through ,mumbling "oh it disgusting isn't it , then after he watched it twice he complained to the tv station 

 Interesting choice you make for your partner in crime, bs buddies no less! Slim pickins for you tho. Too funny really tag team flaming and taunting mods.Watch out GG, maybe your the fallguy!! 

[itsari]

1 hour ago, georgegeorgia said:

I'm thinking when was this legislation brought in ? do we perhaps in all my wisdom I'm thinking during John Howard's era?

 

Ned Kelleys era I would say.

The draconian rules on portability of pension points earned  have never been challenged in a court of law. 

When you consider how many immigrants that have earned pension points and receive nothing due to the portability rules it is surprising that there has not been any challenge through the courts.

Just pure theft.

[Will27]

5 minutes ago, itsari said:

Ned Kelleys era I would say.

The draconian rules on portability of pension points earned  have never been challenged in a court of law. 

When you consider how many immigrants that have earned pension points and receive nothing due to the portability rules it is surprising that there has not been any challenge through the courts.

Just pure theft.

It's not fair at all.

It only applies depending on what country you're in.

 

I have a friend living in Greece who will be able to apply from there in a few years.

[KhunHeineken]

On 4/14/2024 at 1:32 AM, Will27 said:

It's not fair at all.

It only applies depending on what country you're in.

 

I have a friend living in Greece who will be able to apply from there in a few years.

Does your friend have dual citizenship?  If so, that may be the reason. 

 

[Will27]

4 minutes ago, KhunHeineken said:

Does your friend have dual citizenship?  If so, that may be the reason. 

 

No she doesn't.

 

But she told me Australia had a reciprocal agreement with Greece so she can apply from there.

[KhunHeineken]

On 4/14/2024 at 1:25 AM, itsari said:

Ned Kelleys era I would say.

The draconian rules on portability of pension points earned  have never been challenged in a court of law. 

When you consider how many immigrants that have earned pension points and receive nothing due to the portability rules it is surprising that there has not been any challenge through the courts.

Just pure theft.

Why would you think that an Aussie who has lived and worked overseas for most of they life, without paying a cent of tax in Australia, be able to come home at 65 or 67 and put their hand out for the pension, just to turn around and leave again? 

 

That would be "just pure theft" from the Australian tax payers, and I suggest, that's what the 2 years is for.  When you look at it in this way, 2 years is generous, not to mention, the person receives the pension upon arrival. 

 

Where the 2 years is unfair is when someone lives and works and pays tax in Australia for most of their working life, then retires early overseas, say around late 50's,  and a few years later, come retirement age, are told they have to stay in Australia for 2 years to achieve portability. 

 

It appears the system is based on time, rather than the amount of tax paid.  Maybe something closer to the UK system would be fairer, where you can buy into the pension, regardless of geographic location, which is a little like our Super scheme. 

Edited May 5 by KhunHeineken

[KhunHeineken]

10 minutes ago, Will27 said:

No she doesn't.

 

But she told me Australia had a reciprocal agreement with Greece so she can apply from there.

Quite a few on the list.

 

https://www.dss.gov.au/about-the-department/international/international-social-security-agreements/current-international-social-security-agreements

[itsari]

1 hour ago, KhunHeineken said:

Why would you think that an Aussie who has lived and worked overseas for most of they life, without paying a cent of tax in Australia, be able to come home at 65 or 67 and put their hand out for the pension, just to turn around and leave again? 

 

That would be "just pure theft" from the Australian tax payers, and I suggest, that's what the 2 years is for.  When you look at it in this way, 2 years is generous, not to mention, the person receives the pension upon arrival. 

 

Where the 2 years is unfair is when someone lives and works and pays tax in Australia for most of their working life, then retires early overseas, say around late 50's,  and a few years later, come retirement age, are told they have to stay in Australia for 2 years to achieve portability. 

 

It appears the system is based on time, rather than the amount of tax paid.  Maybe something closer to the UK system would be fairer, where you can buy into the pension, regardless of geographic location, which is a little like our Super scheme. 

I suggest you do not understand the portability rules. The 2 years is for avoid paying what they owe you. 

If you work in a country that has a social agreement with Australia then the years can be combined which was my situation . Yet to getr what i am owed from Australia i must live there for two years. No other western nation has such obstructions for receiving what you have paid for. 

[KhunHeineken]

8 minutes ago, itsari said:

I suggest you do not understand the portability rules. The 2 years is for avoid paying what they owe you. 

If you work in a country that has a social agreement with Australia then the years can be combined which was my situation . Yet to getr what i am owed from Australia i must live there for two years. No other western nation has such obstructions for receiving what you have paid for. 

Did you read my post?

 

I agreed with you to a point. 

 

Where I disagreed with you is having an Australia citizen who has lived and worked overseas most of their life, and never paid tax in Australia, return back to Australia at 65 or 67, receive the pension, and fly back out the next day.  I would see this as "just pure theft" from the Australian tax payers.  You seem to think it's fine, as if it's some kind of birthright.  In this case, what does the Australia government / tax payer "owe" this person?  Zero. 

 

They have to put something in place to stop the above.  They set it at 2 years.  I have suggested a perhaps more fairer system, based on "buying in" if overseas, or "paying in" in the form of tax, if inside Australia.  The UK has a similar system.    

 

I have posted a list of countries that Australia has a social security agreement with and Thailand is not one of them.  That's probably for another thread.

[TroubleandGrumpy]

These days it is wise to make it look like you intend to stay. Portability can be denied if they have good reason to think that you never intended to stay in Aust and that the moment you serve the 2 years that you will leave the country. 

 

[KhunHeineken]

On 6/3/2024 at 3:11 AM, TroubleandGrumpy said:

These days it is wise to make it look like you intend to stay. Portability can be denied if they have good reason to think that you never intended to stay in Aust and that the moment you serve the 2 years that you will leave the country. 

 

How can they prove your intent, or otherwise? 

[Olmate]

7 hours ago, KhunHeineken said:

How can they prove your intent, or otherwise? 

Its wise not to do it is what the poster stated, you would do otherwise no.doubt, for the sake of this fake insight that you continue to pervay! 

[KhunHeineken]

16 hours ago, Olmate said:

Its wise not to do it is what the poster stated, you would do otherwise no.doubt, for the sake of this fake insight that you continue to pervay! 

Been on the 9am Leo again, I see.

 

You obviously have no idea about the law. 

[Olmate]

On 6/6/2024 at 12:02 AM, KhunHeineken said:

Been on the 9am Leo again, I see.

 

You obviously have no idea about the law. 

Deflection is your go toagain, yawn, Leo has more cred than you Hein.Notargueing  the law, Im pointing to what was originally posted by your nemisis!!! 😭

[KhunHeineken]

3 hours ago, Olmate said:

Deflection is your go toagain, yawn, Leo has more cred than you Hein.Notargueing  the law, Im pointing to what was originally posted by your nemisis!!! 😭

No deflection.  I am on the record here. 

 

You, on the other hand, don't put forward an opinion, just criticize those who do, without going on the record yourself.  That's lower than a politician at election time. 

[SAFETY FIRST]

On 4/14/2024 at 6:17 AM, georgegeorgia said:

I'm thinking when was this legislation brought in ?

It was the illegal boat people that arrived in Australia, changes were made. 

 

After arriving, most wouldn't work or assimilate, then once they became Australian citizens, applied for their aussie passport then headed back to the middle east living comfortably on an aussie pension, not having worked a day in their Australian life. 

 

Edited June 8 by SAFETY FIRST

[scorecard]

On 6/3/2024 at 10:11 AM, TroubleandGrumpy said:

These days it is wise to make it look like you intend to stay. Portability can be denied if they have good reason to think that you never intended to stay in Aust and that the moment you serve the 2 years that you will leave the country. 

 

Well yes but when you apply for the OAP you have to physically be in Australia.

 

You also have to prove you are living in Australia by:

 

- Proving ownership of residential property plus proof you are paying:  annual council taxes and electricity bills etc.,

 

- Or, provide proof you are renting by showing a completed rental agreement.

 

- And proof of residential address recorded with 2 banks or similar.

 

 

 

[scorecard]

On 6/8/2024 at 6:37 PM, SAFETY FIRST said:

It was the illegal boat people that arrived in Australia, changes were made. 

 

After arriving, most wouldn't work or assimilate, then once they became Australian citizens, applied for their aussie passport then headed back to the middle east living comfortably on an aussie pension, not having worked a day in their Australian life. 

 

 

The boat people (refugees) came from Vietnam.

 

They certainly didn't refuse to work or assimilate. Gov't data on these points clearly proves the oposite.

 

Vietnam is not in the middle east. 

[SAFETY FIRST]

6 hours ago, scorecard said:

 

The boat people (refugees) came from Vietnam.

 

They certainly didn't refuse to work or assimilate. Gov't data on these points clearly proves the oposite.

 

Vietnam is not in the middle east. 

 

Why  are you posting false information? 

The Vietnamese were hard working and did assimilate. 

Where have I mentioned Vietnamese?

I'm not talking about the Vietnamese arrivals.

 

As I said in my comment, illegal boat people from the 'middle east'. 

 

Refugees from the Middle East

The Middle East is currently a major source of refugees and a significant

source of the recent growing numbers of refugees and illegal immigrants

to Australia, according to DFAT.21 In the last quarter of 1999, there was a

sharp increase in the numbers of people arriving unlawfully in Australia

to seek asylum. The vast majority of these arrivals were from the Middle

East, with the two largest groups being Afghans and Iraqis. 

 

https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&source=web&rct=j&opi=89978449&url=https://www.aph.gov.au/parliamentary_business/committees/house_of_representatives_committees%3Furl%3Djfadt/mideast/mechapter_9.pdf&ved=2ahUKEwj0-o6GrNmGAxULxzgGHS8sAnwQFnoECBkQAQ&usg=AOvVaw1aepLDS675blghL2hHJQCj

 

 

 

You should educate yourself before commenting. 

 

Edited Thursday at 08:19 PM by SAFETY FIRST

[Nemises]

12 hours ago, scorecard said:

Well yes but when you apply for the OAP you have to physically be in Australia.

 

You also have to prove you are living in Australia by:

 

- Proving ownership of residential property plus proof you are paying:  annual council taxes and electricity bills etc.,

 

- Or, provide proof you are renting by showing a completed rental agreement.

 

- And proof of residential address recorded with 2 banks or similar.

 

 

 

… or…. go back the day before your 65th birthday, do the 2 years and get OAP portability without proving anything.
 

Simply hop on the plane back to LoS the day after turning 67. 
 

 

 

Edited Friday at 02:37 AM by Nemises

[TroubleandGrumpy]

14 hours ago, scorecard said:

Well yes but when you apply for the OAP you have to physically be in Australia.

You also have to prove you are living in Australia by:

- Proving ownership of residential property plus proof you are paying:  annual council taxes and electricity bills etc.,

- Or, provide proof you are renting by showing a completed rental agreement.

- And proof of residential address recorded with 2 banks or similar.

 

You obviously have to be IN Australia to apply for OAP -I have never said otherwise.

Being In Australia means you have the needed proof of residence etc. or you are getting it sorted.

 

The issue is proving you intend to stay once you apply - meaning not giving the impression you do intend to leave.

Not doing things like telling people that you will be going back to Thailand as soon as the 2 years is up. 

Not living in rented hotel rooms in different hotels/places - and not starting to 'make a life' in Australia.

Not having a Thai wife/gf who still lives in Thailand - and not visiting her every year. 

And so many other things that make CLink decide that you never intended to stay.

You have to make it appear that you are staying forever - ridiculous but that is the situation when you apply after 67.

 

As @Nemises said and what I did - go back 2-4 years before 67 and make it look like you are staying (still important).

And then leave the month after getting approved for OAP - portability is then automatic - no CLink decision needed.

Many people have burned all their money, so they cannot afford to live in Australia on the dole (have to wait for OAP).

But it can be done - as long as you dont try to live in a big City on the beach and eat out a lot and drink party etc etc.

Go to a big regional town and rent a small unit/van (rental subsidy) - there are no jobs, so dole is automatic.

Buy food in bulk and have those cheap lunches at the RSL clubs now and then.

Dont drink and smoke a lot - or anything else that wastes too much money - actually save up (as if looking to buy).

And this is a big one - avoid the women who will try to suck whatever money you have out of you (and anything else).

Rent if you need to every now and then - but dont be stupid and have a permanent one - many blokes do and never get back.

[Nemises]

44 minutes ago, TroubleandGrumpy said:

But it can be done - as long as you dont try to live in a big City on the beach and eat out a lot and drink party etc etc.

 

I know a guy who is spending his 2 years living in hostels!  Costs about $30 - $35 per night leaving enough dole money to easily cover food and the occasional beer.
He loves it, all hostels provide free A/C, WiFi, hot showers, communal kitchens, laundry, TV rooms etc. Some even have free swimming pools and free movie theatres. Some are located dead centre in big cities thus providing him with hundreds of things to do, including having public transport across the city and surrounding country areas capped at $2.50 per day.

For added security and peacefulness, he only ever shares up to a 4 bedroom dorm room and always gets a large, free locker for his suitcases and valuables. Apparently he has made hundreds of new friends at the hostels, hence he is rarely bored or lonely. 
His only gripe is the occasional loud snorer, but he gets a new room when that happens.

He gives Centrelink & MyGov an address of a relative but he never stays with them and they (C/L & M/G) have no idea of that. 
I’ve seen photos of his backpacking “friends”. Some are gorgeous, especially the ones from Sweden …

 

https://www.yha.com.au/hostels/nsw/sydney-surrounds/sydney-central-backpackers-hostel/

 

 

 

Edited Friday at 05:36 AM by Nemises

[scorecard]

1 hour ago, TroubleandGrumpy said:

You obviously have to be IN Australia to apply for OAP -I have never said otherwise.

Being In Australia means you have the needed proof of residence etc. or you are getting it sorted.

 

The issue is proving you intend to stay once you apply - meaning not giving the impression you do intend to leave.

Not doing things like telling people that you will be going back to Thailand as soon as the 2 years is up. 

Not living in rented hotel rooms in different hotels/places - and not starting to 'make a life' in Australia.

Not having a Thai wife/gf who still lives in Thailand - and not visiting her every year. 

And so many other things that make CLink decide that you never intended to stay.

You have to make it appear that you are staying forever - ridiculous but that is the situation when you apply after 67.

 

As @Nemises said and what I did - go back 2-4 years before 67 and make it look like you are staying (still important).

And then leave the month after getting approved for OAP - portability is then automatic - no CLink decision needed.

Many people have burned all their money, so they cannot afford to live in Australia on the dole (have to wait for OAP).

But it can be done - as long as you dont try to live in a big City on the beach and eat out a lot and drink party etc etc.

Go to a big regional town and rent a small unit/van (rental subsidy) - there are no jobs, so dole is automatic.

Buy food in bulk and have those cheap lunches at the RSL clubs now and then.

Dont drink and smoke a lot - or anything else that wastes too much money - actually save up (as if looking to buy).

And this is a big one - avoid the women who will try to suck whatever money you have out of you (and anything else).

Rent if you need to every now and then - but dont be stupid and have a permanent one - many blokes do and never get back.

From above:

"The issue is proving you intend to stay once you apply - meaning nMyot giving the impression you do intend to leave."

 

Agree. As soon as I lodge my application for the OAP I got an e.mail from Centrelink asking about 3 questions:

 

1. do you have any travel plans to go abroad in the near future.

At the local C'link office later that day. I showed the letter to the C'link officer. She giggled and said:

- Standard letter

- Suggest you reply 'I have no such plans at all'. And I did give that reply.

 

The other 2 questions I forget.

 

C'link never contacted me again on this subject.

 

[KhunHeineken]

6 hours ago, Nemises said:

He gives Centrelink & MyGov an address of a relative but he never stays with them and they (C/L & M/G) have no idea of that. 

I hope for his relative's sake he's not claiming rent assistance. 

 

There relative might be in for a surprise at tax time. 

[TroubleandGrumpy]

5 hours ago, scorecard said:

From above:

"The issue is proving you intend to stay once you apply - meaning nMyot giving the impression you do intend to leave."

 

Agree. As soon as I lodge my application for the OAP I got an e.mail from Centrelink asking about 3 questions:

 

1. do you have any travel plans to go abroad in the near future.

At the local C'link office later that day. I showed the letter to the C'link officer. She giggled and said:

- Standard letter

- Suggest you reply 'I have no such plans at all'. And I did give that reply.

The other 2 questions I forget.

C'link never contacted me again on this subject.

Yep - they will follow procedure and check up on you - but the CLink staff usually dont care and they just want to 'tick the box'.

But if you has of said something a bit suss, then they might have put a mark on your file for a follow up later.

 

If you are going to do the 2 years, stay under the radar and give all the 'right' appearances and they will leave you alone.

How CLink 'gets' most people is because some bitch/ar...ole dobs them in and they investigate.

People talk - they talk to him, he talks to her, she talks to her, she talks to him, and bla bla bla - around it goes.

If you tell one person you will be going back to Thailand, someone who you never spoke to or know may dob you in.

There are some feminazis and a few ar...oles who just hate the idea of a bloke shagging beautiful young women.

They are sometimes jealous and have a grudge, or they see it as exploitation of poor young girls - and there are a lot of them who think that way.

Shut up and say nothing - to family, friends, and others - say you want to stay and that you hope it works out OK. 

[KhunHeineken]

7 hours ago, TroubleandGrumpy said:

You obviously have to be IN Australia to apply for OAP -I have never said otherwise.

Being In Australia means you have the needed proof of residence etc. or you are getting it sorted.

 

The issue is proving you intend to stay once you apply - meaning not giving the impression you do intend to leave.

Not doing things like telling people that you will be going back to Thailand as soon as the 2 years is up. 

Not living in rented hotel rooms in different hotels/places - and not starting to 'make a life' in Australia.

Not having a Thai wife/gf who still lives in Thailand - and not visiting her every year. 

And so many other things that make CLink decide that you never intended to stay.

You have to make it appear that you are staying forever - ridiculous but that is the situation when you apply after 67.

 

As @Nemises said and what I did - go back 2-4 years before 67 and make it look like you are staying (still important).

And then leave the month after getting approved for OAP - portability is then automatic - no CLink decision needed.

Many people have burned all their money, so they cannot afford to live in Australia on the dole (have to wait for OAP).

But it can be done - as long as you dont try to live in a big City on the beach and eat out a lot and drink party etc etc.

Go to a big regional town and rent a small unit/van (rental subsidy) - there are no jobs, so dole is automatic.

Buy food in bulk and have those cheap lunches at the RSL clubs now and then.

Dont drink and smoke a lot - or anything else that wastes too much money - actually save up (as if looking to buy).

And this is a big one - avoid the women who will try to suck whatever money you have out of you (and anything else).

Rent if you need to every now and then - but dont be stupid and have a permanent one - many blokes do and never get back.

Interesting post, and I agree, but the question begs, why would someone burn all their bridges in Australia, only to return home and to live like a pauper for 2 years? 

 

I'll always keep a small property as a base in Australia, always. 

 

It will not just be for taxation purposes.  I may have to return for family reasons, medical reasons, who knows, but I will always have accommodation to return to in my country of birth and citizenship.  Yes, there are fees and taxes to pay, but that's the price you pay to have an exit strategy from Thailand. 

[TroubleandGrumpy]

Just now, KhunHeineken said:

Interesting post, and I agree, but the question begs, why would someone burn all their bridges in Australia, only to return home and to live like a pauper for 2 years? 

I'll always keep a small property as a base in Australia, always. 

It will not just be for taxation purposes.  I may have to return for family reasons, medical reasons, who knows, but I will always have accommodation to return to in my country of birth and citizenship.  Yes, there are fees and taxes to pay, but that's the price you pay to have an exit strategy from Thailand. 

Good plan - that is thinking ahead.

We have Plan C as the option - to go back to Australia full time - but we will rent.

Meanwhile we have kept our address - technically we are still renting part of a house (for a very small fee). 

[KhunHeineken]

1 minute ago, TroubleandGrumpy said:

Yep - they will follow procedure and check up on you - but the CLink staff usually dont care and they just want to 'tick the box'.

But if you has of said something a bit suss, then they might have put a mark on your file for a follow up later.

 

If you are going to do the 2 years, stay under the radar and give all the 'right' appearances and they will leave you alone.

How CLink 'gets' most people is because some bitch/ar...ole dobs them in and they investigate.

People talk - they talk to him, he talks to her, she talks to her, she talks to him, and bla bla bla - around it goes.

If you tell one person you will be going back to Thailand, someone who you never spoke to or know may dob you in.

There are some feminazis and a few ar...oles who just hate the idea of a bloke shagging beautiful young women.

They are sometimes jealous and have a grudge, or they see it as exploitation of poor young girls - and there are a lot of them who think that way.

Shut up and say nothing - to family, friends, and others - say you want to stay and that you hope it works out OK. 

It's a little difficult to create the false appearance if you return home with no money for bond and lease on a small unit, and to buy a car and register it, then go renew your drivers license, then get an electricity bill in your name etc etc etc etc. 

 

Guys go home and don't do any of this, like the guy Nemises knows. 

 

To date, many have been getting away with leading a somewhat nomadic life in Australia for the 2 years., however, I can see the day when they tighten up on portability, but that's for another thread if / when it happens. 

[KhunHeineken]

6 minutes ago, TroubleandGrumpy said:

Good plan - that is thinking ahead.

We have Plan C as the option - to go back to Australia full time - but we will rent.

Meanwhile we have kept our address - technically we are still renting part of a house (for a very small fee). 

Smart move. 

 

Technically I'm still living in my house.  I'm just on a long holiday, a very long holiday.  Of course, I have every "intention" of returning to my "domicile" in Australia as far as the ATO is concerned, but that's for the other thread.