Why Pheu Thai’s thinking is democratically wrong

[webfact]

 

Coming from a man considered to be one of the top political thinkers, the idea that the second biggest party in a multiple-party system is traditionally required to fight with the biggest one in forming a government sounds more worrisome. If not more ridiculous, that is.

 

Even Phumtham Wechayachai, one of the Pheu Thai Party’s most powerful influencers, has pointed out himself that his political camp and Move Forward were not that far apart in terms of election wins. This made the deputy party leader’s assertion that Pheu Thai could have chosen to be a rival government-forming core more bewildering.

 

No political textbook says Pheu Thai should have, and for good reason. Yet this type of thinking has spread throughout not just Pheu Thai’s highest hierarchy but also a considerable section of its support down to the grass roots.  

 

There is only one justification for a post-election rivalry between Move Forward and Pheu Thai, and that is if there are irreconcilable ideological differences between both parties. Truth, however, is that Pheu Thai is closer to Move Forward ideologically than to, say, Palang Pracharath. To say otherwise is ignoring what has been happening in Thailand over the past two decades.

 

By Tulsathit Taptim

 

Full story: https://www.thaipbsworld.com/why-pheu-thais-thinking-is-democratically-wrong/

 

-- © Copyright Thai PBS 2023-06-24

 

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[2baht]

10 minutes ago, webfact said:

There is only one justification for a post-election rivalry between Move Forward and Pheu Thai

.................who gets the most snouts in the trough! ????????????

[OneMoreFarang]

2 hours ago, webfact said:

his political camp and Move Forward were not that far apart

In which way?

Thai politics is, or at least was, always about influence and money.

Political goals? Who cares?

 

The politicians in the most lucrative positions make the most money. That counts.

Let's look if Move Forward will change this system. I try to keep an open mind. 

[zzaa09]

2 hours ago, 2baht said:

.................who gets the most snouts in the trough! ????????????

Truer than not.

.....and all attached to the same club. 

One-n-the-same, can't tell one from the other.

[kingstonkid]

The biggest difference is the man in Dubai and we whether he should come back.

[scorecard]

51 minutes ago, kingstonkid said:

The biggest difference is the man in Dubai and we whether he should come back.

And the answer is NO, NO, NO.

 

He's not just 'the man in Dubai'.

 

He's a person who has been charged with several civil offences involving very large amounts of money, found guilty for good reasons (real evidence)  and not in a military court, and sentenced to 12 years in jail.

[hotchilli]

9 hours ago, webfact said:

There is only one justification for a post-election rivalry between Move Forward and Pheu Thai, and that is if there are irreconcilable ideological differences between both parties.

It's the old "we should have won syndrome" some sore losers in the camp.

[Purdey]

Most parties just want lucrative ministerial portfolios. If Move Forward held all the key ministries and used their power to develop the country it would make a nice change. 

[Srikcir]

10 hours ago, webfact said:

Pheu Thai is closer to Move Forward ideologically than to, say, Palang Pracharath. 

That's like saying your left hand is closer to your right hand than to, say your foot. The comparison is nonsensible.

Looking at the last ten years for what has the PTP accomplished in terms of strengthening democracy in Thailand? Two elections reflect little to nothing.

At best I view PTP as a conservative right-wing capitalistic party versus MFP as a progressive left-wing proletarian party. 

[scorecard]

34 minutes ago, Purdey said:

Most parties just want lucrative ministerial portfolios. If Move Forward held all the key ministries and used their power to develop the country it would make a nice change. 

But always keeping in mind that coaliton parties will soon depart if they don't get some benefits.

[h90]

In a coalition everything is open for discussion.

The weaker can have the PM and the stronger can have more ministers...all possible.

It is up to negotiations. There are some positions that are more important....and some that are less so they need to negotiate a package.

Both MFP and PTP can have a majority in parliament without the other. Both will have problems with the senators

[h90]

1 hour ago, Srikcir said:

That's like saying your left hand is closer to your right hand than to, say your foot. The comparison is nonsensible.

Looking at the last ten years for what has the PTP accomplished in terms of strengthening democracy in Thailand? Two elections reflect little to nothing.

At best I view PTP as a conservative right-wing capitalistic party versus MFP as a progressive left-wing proletarian party. 

An oligarch party strengthen democracy??? Why should they do that????

[MrMojoRisin]

3 hours ago, scorecard said:

And the answer is NO, NO, NO.

 

He's not just 'the man in Dubai'.

 

He's a person who has been charged with several civil offences involving very large amounts of money, found guilty for good reasons (real evidence)  and not in a military court, and sentenced to 12 years in jail.

Nonsense.

Trumped up charges (by Thai standards) and politicised courts.

He’ll be free as a bird strolling the sois of Bangkok in a month.

[MrMojoRisin]

1 hour ago, Srikcir said:

That's like saying your left hand is closer to your right hand than to, say your foot. The comparison is nonsensible.

Looking at the last ten years for what has the PTP accomplished in terms of strengthening democracy in Thailand? Two elections reflect little to nothing.

At best I view PTP as a conservative right-wing capitalistic party versus MFP as a progressive left-wing proletarian party. 

On the political spectrum, PT is clearly closer to MF than the junta numpties (thus the coups).

[zzaa09]

1 hour ago, Srikcir said:

That's like saying your left hand is closer to your right hand than to, say your foot. The comparison is nonsensible.

Looking at the last ten years for what has the PTP accomplished in terms of strengthening democracy in Thailand? Two elections reflect little to nothing.

At best I view PTP as a conservative right-wing capitalistic party versus MFP as a progressive left-wing proletarian party. 

And most seriously amusing is the implanted seed that PT harbors some sort of liberal/progressive working-class hero stand - subliminally promoted as well is that they are "opposition" to the traditional ruling class. 

 

Far from such deluded reality. PT, as most others, are tied to the traditional establishment mindset and doings. 

 

Give 'em time to cure and MV will fester toward these bases as well - the nature of politics and political machines serving the masses......eventually they go array to tradition, forgetting what they exist for. 

[zzaa09]

11 minutes ago, MrMojoRisin said:

On the political spectrum, PT is clearly closer to MF than the junta numpties (thus the coups).

I wouldn't wager on that suggestion. 

PT is closer to oppressive establishment in design.......perhaps, they're not Junta Gang-like, yet wouldn't take much to push them over to the dark side. 

[MrMojoRisin]

1 hour ago, zzaa09 said:

I wouldn't wager on that suggestion. 

PT is closer to oppressive establishment in design.......perhaps, they're not Junta Gang-like, yet wouldn't take much to push them over to the dark side. 

Then why would the establishment see Thaksin as an existential threat and risk coup after coup after coup to ensure that he was kept out of power?

[zzaa09]

1 minute ago, MrMojoRisin said:

Then why would the establishment see Thaksin as an existential threat and risk coup after coup after coup to ensure that he was kept out of power?

Part and parcel to the game that you [and most others] don't understand that is being played. 

Two [perhaps more] factions of the establishment that use distractions to confuse. 

 

Not cut and pasted as one might think. 

[scorecard]

4 hours ago, MrMojoRisin said:

Nonsense.

Trumped up charges (by Thai standards) and politicised courts.

He’ll be free as a bird strolling the sois of Bangkok in a month.

Nonsense.

[stoner]

3 hours ago, zzaa09 said:

Part and parcel to the game that you [and most others] don't understand that is being played. 

Two [perhaps more] factions of the establishment that use distractions to confuse. 

 

Not cut and pasted as one might think. 

there's always a puppeteer. weather here or anywhere else. 

Edited June 24, 2023 by stoner

[bannork]

12 hours ago, zzaa09 said:

And most seriously amusing is the implanted seed that PT harbors some sort of liberal/progressive working-class hero stand - subliminally promoted as well is that they are "opposition" to the traditional ruling class. 

 

Far from such deluded reality. PT, as most others, are tied to the traditional establishment mindset and doings. 

 

Give 'em time to cure and MV will fester toward these bases as well - the nature of politics and political machines serving the masses......eventually they go array to tradition, forgetting what they exist for. 

Give MF a chance!

Thaksin decided back at the beginning of the millennium he would accept anyone into his party(ies) in order to strengthen them.

Hence the inclusion of such people as Chalerm Youbamrung, a man with a very dubious background.

There are plenty of seasoned politicians in PT, many jumped ship when things looked rough and then back again when a ministry beckoned 

[scorecard]

57 minutes ago, bannork said:

Give MF a chance!

Thaksin decided back at the beginning of the millennium he would accept anyone into his party(ies) in order to strengthen them.

Hence the inclusion of such people as Chalerm Youbamrung, a man with a very dubious background.

There are plenty of seasoned politicians in PT, many jumped ship when things looked rough and then back again when a ministry beckoned 

Would you trust any thaksin crony?

[NoshowJones]

23 hours ago, scorecard said:

And the answer is NO, NO, NO.

 

He's not just 'the man in Dubai'.

 

He's a person who has been charged with several civil offences involving very large amounts of money, found guilty for good reasons (real evidence)  and not in a military court, and sentenced to 12 years in jail.

Wonder how long it will take for the unelected caretaker PM to be charged with anything to do with his finances? The fact that he will always have soldiers, guns and tanks behind him will make sure he will always be safe.

[nahkit]

22 hours ago, Srikcir said:

That's like saying your left hand is closer to your right hand than to, say your foot. The comparison is nonsensible.

Looking at the last ten years for what has the PTP accomplished in terms of strengthening democracy in Thailand? Two elections reflect little to nothing.

At best I view PTP as a conservative right-wing capitalistic party versus MFP as a progressive left-wing proletarian party. 

"Looking at the last ten years for what has the PTP accomplished in terms of strengthening democracy in Thailand?"

 

The PTP weren't running the country for the last ten years, the military has been running it since 2014.

[MrMojoRisin]

8 hours ago, scorecard said:

Would you trust any thaksin crony?

Nonsense!

[zzaa09]

2 hours ago, NoshowJones said:

Wonder how long it will take for the unelected caretaker PM to be charged with anything to do with his finances? The fact that he will always have soldiers, guns and tanks behind him will make sure he will always be safe.

Even more so, he has an influential entity behind him that will always ensure his safety.

Remember where he comes from.

[kingstonkid]

As much as @mojorisn may disagree. The Pt has had numerous chances to help Thai's they proved through schemes that they were not much better than the Dems.  

They list the last election when they could not create a government and PPP did.

 

Thaksin is old he is part of the old guard.

Rightly or wrongly the people have chosen a new direction.

 

PT can not govern the country because that would mean joining with military and anutin.

 

PT can help be a true party by helping MFP.

 

Any attempt at screwing MFP will be remembered and will be the end of PT 

[sirineou]

A poorly written article difficult to understand exactly what he was saying , but his is what I got. Sour grapes.

 

They won, you lost . Get over it. 

If you had won would you be sharing power with the looser? Try and work with the winners for a better future for Thailand ,.

[bannork]

1 hour ago, kingstonkid said:

As much as @mojorisn may disagree. The Pt has had numerous chances to help Thai's they proved through schemes that they were not much better than the Dems.  

They list the last election when they could not create a government and PPP did.

 

Thaksin is old he is part of the old guard.

Rightly or wrongly the people have chosen a new direction.

 

PT can not govern the country because that would mean joining with military and anutin.

 

PT can help be a true party by helping MFP.

 

Any attempt at screwing MFP will be remembered and will be the end of PT 

Some disagree. The 10 million who voted for PT because of the 30 baht health scheme will never desert the party, they argue. 

Perhaps.

[kingstonkid]

6 hours ago, bannork said:

Some disagree. The 10 million who voted for PT because of the 30 baht health scheme will never desert the party, they argue. 

Perhaps.

Yeah but I think a lot of people will look at the other parties that screw MFP and will kill them at the polls.  Also MFP should have learned their mistakes