My landlord will not complete TM30!! What do I do?

[Liz E]

I have been asking my landlady to complete a TM30 form for months now. She keeps saying she is too busy or it is too complicated. I have offered to do it for her but I believe I still need her complete forms and give me a copy of the title deed and her ID. I have asked for these several times but again she says she is too busy and will do it later, then she does not. 
 

is there a way I can do this without her cooperation? Thank you for any help.

 

note: I am in Chiang Mai, she is in Bangkok and I have never met her in person. I found the property through an agent but she is no longer dealing with them. 

[Ralf001]

As the housemaster you can do it yourself, but you will need chanote and ID from her.

[FriendlyFarang]

Do it yourself as possessor of the property

[CANSIAM]

Find a new place if you cannot get her ID and house number, it will be your problem at immigration not hers.........

[ChipButty]

I had a friend who in similar situation he just went to the immigration and they phoned the landlord and he got fined, if she gives you the paperwork you can do it yourself,

somewhere on here one of the members did a step by step guide, I forget his name, sorry

[Trippy]

If the contract was signed through an agent, it should be the agents responsibility. Did you even ask about the TM30 before you moved in?

[Liz E]

15 minutes ago, Ralf001 said:

As the housemaster you can do it yourself, but you will need chanote and ID from her.

Thank you. Do you happen to know if I need her to complete the forms too? Reading the forms it seems like she needs to complete and sign them. 

[Liz E]

16 minutes ago, FriendlyFarang said:

Do it yourself as possessor of the property

I believe I still need several things from her and she is not cooperating. 

[eisfeld]

7 minutes ago, ChipButty said:

I had a friend who in similar situation he just went to the immigration and they phoned the landlord and he got fined, if she gives you the paperwork you can do it yourself,

somewhere on here one of the members did a step by step guide, I forget his name, sorry

This is actually the way to force it. She will be fined and on top might get tax issues which is most likely the reason why she does not want to file the TM30. She is avoiding to report rental income.

 

If the TM30 is important to the OP because for example you want to get a certificate of residence then I would suggest the OP openly tells the landlady and if she still refuses then do as ChipButty described and just go to immigration and start the process.

[eisfeld]

2 minutes ago, Liz E said:

Thank you. Do you happen to know if I need her to complete the forms too? Reading the forms it seems like she needs to complete and sign them. 

You will need a copy of the housebook and her ID, maybe both also signed by her. Plus the signed rental contract with her.

[Liz E]

8 minutes ago, Trippy said:

If the contract was signed through an agent, it should be the agents responsibility. Did you even ask about the TM30 before you moved in?

Yes, the agent assured me the landlord would arrange it. Next time I contacted them they said they were no longer dealing with the property and I had to contact the landlord. When I did she had no idea what I was talking about. I had to explain what the TM30 was! 

[DrJoy]

7 minutes ago, Liz E said:

I believe I still need several things from her and she is not cooperating. 

You can DIY on the Section 38 application, pretty easy.

 

Screen shot of the app is accepted as proof by the Immi Officer

[ChipButty]

30 minutes ago, Liz E said:

Yes, the agent assured me the landlord would arrange it. Next time I contacted them they said they were no longer dealing with the property and I had to contact the landlord. When I did she had no idea what I was talking about. I had to explain what the TM30 was! 

Maybe the agent did it for the last tenant 

[n00dle]

1 hour ago, Liz E said:

I have been asking my landlady to complete a TM30 form for months now. She keeps saying she is too busy or it is too complicated. I have offered to do it for her but I believe I still need her complete forms and give me a copy of the title deed and her ID. I have asked for these several times but again she says she is too busy and will do it later, then she does not. 
 

is there a way I can do this without her cooperation? Thank you for any help.

 

note: I am in Chiang Mai, she is in Bangkok and I have never met her in person. I found the property through an agent but she is no longer dealing with them. 

Nothing you can do but move. It is highy likely she does not want to officially declare your tenancy, the incme from rent, or both.

I have rented a house in Bangkok for nearly 20 years. The landlord categorically refuses to provide any supporting doumentation, I dont even have a rental contract. I can't say it has ever really been an issue, (though i have needed to be creative over the years getting internet and similar services) and the frozen rent agreement makes the situation work for me.  

Edited July 21, 2023 by n00dle

[theoldgit]

As this a Thailand related topic, rather than for visas for other countries, I’ll move the thread to a more appropriate forum.

[Felton Jarvis]

1 hour ago, CANSIAM said:

Find a new place if you cannot get her ID and house number, it will be your problem at immigration not hers.........

If she is reported to Immigration, it will become HER problem very quickly. A call or a visit from the police, usually gets Thais very active, very quickly. They know what the law is, they just don’t want to comply because they think it’s “your problem”.

[n00dle]

Just now, Felton Jarvis said:

If she is reported to Immigration, it will become HER problem very quickly. A call or a visit from the police, usually gets Thais very active, very quickly. They know what the law is, they just don’t want to comply because they think it’s “your problem”.

Personally i would rather not pay rent in a hostile situation. Id simply move, though I might threaten action if my deposit is denied me.

[DrJack54]

1 hour ago, ChipButty said:

somewhere on here one of the members did a step by step guide, I forget his name, sorry

@Red Phoenix

[CANSIAM]

13 minutes ago, Felton Jarvis said:

If she is reported to Immigration, it will become HER problem very quickly. A call or a visit from the police, usually gets Thais very active, very quickly. They know what the law is, they just don’t want to comply because they think it’s “your problem”.

Actually many landlords don't know what a foreigner needs at immigration for a longer term stay, including 90 day reporting where the TM30 comes in handy......if she's unwilling to give an ID copy, house number, rental contract...........find another place...

[McTavish]

1 hour ago, ChipButty said:

I had a friend who in similar situation he just went to the immigration and they phoned the landlord and he got fined, if she gives you the paperwork you can do it yourself,

somewhere on here one of the members did a step by step guide, I forget his name, sorry

Follow this advice and present your case to the I/O in the back office.  They are quite receptive to polite requests for assistance.

[BritTim]

3 hours ago, ChipButty said:

somewhere on here one of the members did a step by step guide, I forget his name, sorry

You are thinking of @Red Phoenix

[Jack1988]

This is Thailand. Far west 

[DrJack54]

2 hours ago, Jack1988 said:

This is Thailand. Far west 

How does that assist the OP.

Nonsense.

 

OP... What dealings with immigration office do you require.

Annual extension?

Edited July 21, 2023 by DrJack54

[Sheist]

21 hours ago, ChipButty said:

I had a friend who in similar situation he just went to the immigration and they phoned the landlord and he got fined, if she gives you the paperwork you can do it yourself,

somewhere on here one of the members did a step by step guide, I forget his name, sorry

Red Phoenix.  I did it myself on the Section38 app, though my landlord is helpful and I also print and hand carry the documents she provided me, i.e. owner and manager ID info, etc.  Immigration keeps giving them back to me though they are all copies!  ????

[edwardflory]

File the TM-30 as POSSESSOR.  Have supporting documents such as deposit receipts for utilities, rental agreement and etc.. You said "asking for months", a TM-30 must be filed within 24 hours of  NEW address. Depending on the IO you probably could be subject to a fine for no TM-30 - have you done a 90 day report - could be a fine there if you have been in your place / Thailand 90+ days w/o a 90 day report. 

 

I have heard of only 2 times a IO held a landlord responsible and did not fine the renter.

 

If you didn't know, YOU are responsible that ALL your paperwork is in order.......period!!

 

Good luck to you and hoping you get a understandng IO - It DOES happen.

 

Edited July 22, 2023 by edwardflory
spelling

[Capt Rob]

21 hours ago, eisfeld said:

This is actually the way to force it. She will be fined and on top might get tax issues which is most likely the reason why she does not want to file the TM30. She is avoiding to report rental income.

 

If the TM30 is important to the OP because for example you want to get a certificate of residence then I would suggest the OP openly tells the landlady and if she still refuses then do as ChipButty described and just go to immigration and start the process.

If you take this route you might need a contingency plan i.e a back up rental house in case she gets annoyed.

[Felton Jarvis]

19 minutes ago, edwardflory said:

File the TM-30 as POSSESSOR.  Have supporting documents such as deposit receipts for utilities, rental agreement and etc.. You said "asking for months", a TM-30 must be filed within 24 hours of  NEW address. Depending on the IO you probably could be subject to a fine for no TM-30 - have you done a 90 day report - could be a fine there if you have been in your place / Thailand 90+ days w/o a 90 day report. 

 

I have heard of only 2 times a IO held a landlord responsible and did not fine the renter.

 

If you didn't know, YOU are responsible that ALL your paperwork is in order.......period!!

 

Good luck to you and hoping you get a understandng IO - It DOES happen.

 

If that’s not a definitive example of bureaucracy in Thailand, I don’t know what is. The renter is responsible even when the landlord refuses to hand over the required paperwork. Farang is ALWAYS wrong under Thai law.

[ChipButty]

23 hours ago, Liz E said:

Yes, the agent assured me the landlord would arrange it. Next time I contacted them they said they were no longer dealing with the property and I had to contact the landlord. When I did she had no idea what I was talking about. I had to explain what the TM30 was! 

I think you have to register within 24 hours of moving into the property, 

[Toby1947]

Move, but before vacating nail a couple of fresh fish under the table they'll never find them and never be able to re let with that stench. ????????????

[Red Phoenix]

Hi Liz,

You wrote "I have been asking my landlady to complete a TM30 form for months now."

For what purpose do you need your landlady to do your TM-30 notification or provide you with the underlying documents for doing so? 

Immigration will NOT provide you with any service when they do not have proof of your address, so when you are staying on a Non Imm O Visa or an extension of such Visa, by definition you have your 'official address' in the province of your Imm Office and are thus in compliance with TM-30 regulations. 

When you do the TM-30 notification as POSSESSOR of the property, normally a copy of the rental agreement will suffice, as that should contain the ID of the owner of the premises and a reference to the house-book of the place.

So when your landlady does not want to provide you with a copy of the front/back page of her Thai ID-card and a copy of the housebook, you can provide Immigration with a copy of the rental agreement and if they also require the other 2 documents you can simply explain that your landlady is not willing to provide them.  A telephone call from Immigration to the landlady will then quickly solve the matter.  

In your case I suspect that you are actually in compliance with TM-30 regulations when you are staying on a Non Imm O Visa or extension.  Also, it is impossible to do your 90-day reports without this, as the 90-day report is simply a confirmation that you are still staying at your official address for immigration purposes (for which a TM-30 notification was made).

 

 

Edited July 22, 2023 by Red Phoenix