Those who have had their accounts closed by UK banks

[transam]

29 minutes ago, MrMuddle said:

Which (if any), UK Banks allow customers to live in Thailand, and under what conditions?

Nationwide do, I still get emails from them, though haven't used them for years....????

[Andrew Dwyer]

29 minutes ago, MrMuddle said:

Which (if any), UK Banks allow customers to live in Thailand, and under what conditions?

I’m with NatWest hold a healthy balance and make regular transactions, as far as they are aware I am living here and there.

Whether this means I am safe from the account closures …… to quote Eff1n2ret ……. who knows?

[xtrnuno41]

On 7/27/2023 at 11:01 AM, CharlieKo said:

That's not the same thing. You won't get any interest payments on savings. They are just a currency transfer service.

Thats not true, you can put your savings with them with even a 3.19% interest.

You can read on their site.

Probably that as banks give interest now. It comes with the inflation fighting. Guess it will fall down again when inflation lowers.

I red they werent a bank, however do business with Barclays !! and JP Morgan. 

The (your)money is going there. They have a paycard(?), apps. Not sure how it works and have to find out more. It seems they made some kind of construction with Barclays and JP Morgan.

 

[SingAPorn]

England seems ruthless with their own. But very generous in spending billions to supply arms to Ukraine and to be a patsy of the US.

[transam]

1 minute ago, SingAPorn said:

England seems ruthless with their own. But very generous in spending billions to supply arms to Ukraine and to be a patsy of the US.

UK banks do not supply arms to Ukraine..........????

[CharlieKo]

2 hours ago, xtrnuno41 said:

Thats not true, you can put your savings with them with even a 3.19% interest.

You can read on their site.

Since making that post I am aware you can now get interest on funds lodged with wise. However. if you read the details you will see that they put funds into the bond market. Whence their using Barclays and JP Morgan depending on whether your account is USD or GBP. 

 

They even explain that depending on how the bond market is doing, there may be times when there is a restriction on funds being withdrawn/converted. So funds are at risk as any investment. Seeing the state of the economy in the west with possible recession, stagflation, even a possible collapse of currencies. The bond market may be the last place to have money invested. imo.

 

Not sure of your tax status. But you are probably liable if any tax is due on the interest earned. 

[Phulublub]

On 7/27/2023 at 4:01 PM, CharlieKo said:

That's not the same thing. You won't get any interest payments on savings. They are just a currency transfer service.

My interest bearing Wise jar says otherwise.  And pays WAY more interest than any UK High Stret Bank.

 

PH

[freeworld]

1 hour ago, Phulublub said:

My interest bearing Wise jar says otherwise.  And pays WAY more interest than any UK High Stret Bank.

 

PH

From wise website, some extracts:

USA

Can you use Wise as a bank account?

No, you cannot use Wise as a bank account, because Wise is not a bank, it’s a financial technology company.

However, with the Wise Account you’ll get some features which are similar to those available from regular bank accounts, such as the option to hold a Balance, send and receive payments, and spend with a linked card.

This means you can use Wise for many day to day financial transactions and even as a primary account depending on your needs.

 

Interest

Wise Accounts aren’t interest bearing. Some traditional bank accounts offer checking accounts which offer interest — and many have saving account products which offer interest depending on the value of the Balance you hold.

 

EEA

At the moment, Interest is available to consumers and businesses that are residents in Austria, Denmark, Estonia, Finland, France, Germany, Hungary (in beta), Luxembourg, Netherlands, Norway, Spain and Sweden. Stocks is available to consumers and businesses that are residents in Austria, Denmark, Estonia, Finland, France, Germany, Luxembourg, Netherlands, Norway, Spain and Sweden.

 

How is a Wise account different from a bank account, and how does Wise hold my money? 

Your money is protected because we safeguard it, as opposed to classic bank accounts, which are covered by the Financial Services Compensation Scheme (FSCS), or other protection schemes that you get with bank accounts.

You can't get an overdraft or loan.

You won't earn interest

[freeworld]

1 hour ago, Phulublub said:

My interest bearing Wise jar says otherwise.  And pays WAY more interest than any UK High Stret Bank.

 

PH

Yes but the money is put with investment companies, you have made an investment, the actual account is not earning the interest but the funds in which it has been placed is paying you interest and they are taking a small % of your capital for wise and the fund manager.

 

What fees do I pay when I use Wise Interest?

When you make a return using Wise Interest you pay two fees: a Wise fee, also known as the service fee, and a fund manager fee. 

Both fees are based on your daily balance. The Wise fee is charged monthly and will be taken out of your balance on the 1st of every month. The fund manager includes their fee in the value of your investment, so you won’t see it charged as a separate fee

The Wise fee

We’ll always take the service fee from a balance — we don’t charge the fee to Jars. If you've got a Jar set to Interest, we’ll charge the fee to your balance that’s in the same currency.

 If you don’t have enough money in your balance to pay the fee, we’ll take it from another one that does have money in it.

Current Wise fee when you use Wise Interest

Your country	Currency	Fund and fund manager	Annual Wise fee
UK	GBP	BlackRock ICS Sterling Government Liquidity Fund Managed by BlackRock	0.19%
	EUR	BlackRock ICS Euro Government Liquidity Fund Premier Acc T0 (EUR) Managed by BlackRock	0.19%
	USD	BlackRock ICS US Treasury Fund Premier ACC (USD) Managed by BlackRock	0.19%
Select EEA countries (check availability)	GBP	BlackRock ICS Sterling Government Liquidity Fund Managed by BlackRock	0.37%
	EUR	BlackRock ICS Euro Government Liquidity Fund Premier Acc T0 (EUR) Managed by BlackRock	0.37%
	USD	BlackRock ICS US Treasury Fund Premier ACC (USD) Managed by BlackRock	0.37%
Singapore	SGD	LionGlobal SGD Money Market Fund Managed by Lion Global Investors Ltd.	0.25%
	USD	FTGF Western Asset US Government Managed by Franklin Templeton	0.25%

An example

If you’re based in the UK and put 1000 GBP in Interest and left it there for one year, you'd pay 1.90 GBP in Wise fees over the 12 months. This is because the fee is 0.19%.

The fund manager fee

The fund management fee is charged by the fund manager. It’s automatically reflected in the value of your investment, so you won’t see it charged to your account as a separate fee.

Current fund manager fee when you hold money as Interest

Your country	Fund and fund manager	Annual fund manager fee
UK* and selected EEA countries	BlackRock ICS Sterling Government Liquidity Fund Premier Acc (GBP) Managed by BlackRock	0.10%*
	BlackRock ICS Euro Government Liquidity Fund Premier Acc T0 (EUR) Managed by BlackRock	0.10%*
	BlackRock ICS US Treasury Fund Premier ACC (USD) Managed by BlackRock	0.10%*
Singapore**	LionGlobal SGD Money Market Fund Managed by Lion Global Investors Ltd.	0.25%
	FTGF Western Asset US Government Liquidity Fund Managed by Franklin Templeton	0.60%

*In the UK, BlackRock provides Wise with a rebate of 0.03% from their fund manager fee. Wise passes this saving on to you through a reduced Wise fee. 

**In Singapore, Lion Global Investors Ltd provides Wise with a rebate of 0.125% and Franklin Templeton provides Wise with a rebate of 0.15%. Wise passes this saving on to you through a reduced Wise fee.  

 

 

 

[Phulublub]

10 hours ago, freeworld said:

From wise website, some extracts:

USA

Can you use Wise as a bank account?

No, you cannot use Wise as a bank account, because Wise is not a bank, it’s a financial technology company.

However, with the Wise Account you’ll get some features which are similar to those available from regular bank accounts, such as the option to hold a Balance, send and receive payments, and spend with a linked card.

This means you can use Wise for many day to day financial transactions and even as a primary account depending on your needs.

 

Interest

Wise Accounts aren’t interest bearing. Some traditional bank accounts offer checking accounts which offer interest — and many have saving account products which offer interest depending on the value of the Balance you hold.

 

EEA

At the moment, Interest is available to consumers and businesses that are residents in Austria, Denmark, Estonia, Finland, France, Germany, Hungary (in beta), Luxembourg, Netherlands, Norway, Spain and Sweden. Stocks is available to consumers and businesses that are residents in Austria, Denmark, Estonia, Finland, France, Germany, Luxembourg, Netherlands, Norway, Spain and Sweden.

 

How is a Wise account different from a bank account, and how does Wise hold my money? 

Your money is protected because we safeguard it, as opposed to classic bank accounts, which are covered by the Financial Services Compensation Scheme (FSCS), or other protection schemes that you get with bank accounts.

You can't get an overdraft or loan.

You won't earn interest

So you agree that they are not "just a currency transfer service" as claimed by the post I replied to?

 

PH

[BritManToo]

15 hours ago, SingAPorn said:

England seems ruthless with their own. But very generous in spending billions to supply arms to Ukraine and to be a patsy of the US.

I suspect the UK wants all it's citizens to live and die in the UK, and reluctantly allow it's citizens a few short foreign holidays. I foresee all UK banks closing all expat accounts (only for us plebs of course) in the near future.

 

China appears to use the same principle to control it's citizens.

[noobexpat]

13 hours ago, Phulublub said:

My interest bearing Wise jar says otherwise.  And pays WAY more interest than any UK High Stret Bank.

 

PH

How they get away with referring to 'interest' is ....interesting! It is anything but.

They are gilt and fixed interest investments, not deposit accounts. They have yields, coupons and redemption values.

Probably use an OEIC or unit trust wrapper which are taxable. 

Fees will be higher than using just about any other platform for the same externally managed funds. Wise doesn’t have fund managers lol.

I can see no advantage using this facility over just about any other bond fund provider.

 

[freeworld]

2 hours ago, Phulublub said:

So you agree that they are not "just a currency transfer service" as claimed by the post I replied to?

 

PH

 

On Wise wiki page they list their services as remittance and foreign exchange.

[freeworld]

29 minutes ago, noobexpat said:

How they get away with referring to 'interest' is ....interesting! It is anything but.

They are gilt and fixed interest investments, not deposit accounts. They have yields, coupons and redemption values.

Probably use an OEIC or unit trust wrapper which are taxable. 

Fees will be higher than using just about any other platform for the same externally managed funds. Wise doesn’t have fund managers lol.

I can see no advantage using this facility over just about any other bond fund provider.

 

Its making them lots of money.

[noobexpat]

1 hour ago, freeworld said:

Its making them lots of money.

Maybe ...but its only a pretty small platform fee and possibly some fund manager rebate.

 

Until they start attracting billions in western currencies, it will be modest. Maybe equity funds will follow.

[Chivas]

20 hours ago, SingAPorn said:

England seems ruthless with their own. But very generous in spending billions to supply arms to Ukraine and to be a patsy of the US.

Well in light of being a patsy to the Yanks one can only hope that they turn up on time for the next World War after being late for the first two.....................................

[quake]

6 hours ago, BritManToo said:

I suspect the UK wants all it's citizens to live and die in the UK, and reluctantly allow it's citizens a few short foreign holidays. I foresee all UK banks closing all expat accounts (only for us plebs of course) in the near future.

 

China appears to use the same principle to control it's citizens.

Agree 100%.

[xtrnuno41]

21 hours ago, CharlieKo said:

Since making that post I am aware you can now get interest on funds lodged with wise. However. if you read the details you will see that they put funds into the bond market. Whence their using Barclays and JP Morgan depending on whether your account is USD or GBP. 

 

They even explain that depending on how the bond market is doing, there may be times when there is a restriction on funds being withdrawn/converted. So funds are at risk as any investment. Seeing the state of the economy in the west with possible recession, stagflation, even a possible collapse of currencies. The bond market may be the last place to have money invested. imo.

 

Not sure of your tax status. But you are probably liable if any tax is due on the interest earned. 

OK start reading some more. It seems, as you said, you are in funds, investment. Meaning your money isnt protected anyhow, anyway. Weird is then they give interest on central banks rate. And that one is now 3.24% as off inflation fighting and will go down if inflation goes down to even negative. So return of investments isnt the real return amount (or is, as those (governments funds have that only percentage of CB+ extra?) and is going to Blackrock and mates? And Blackrock is only fundmanager and do the business then with a Barclays and JP Morgan, mentioned as third party? And Blackrock in this case should only do in safe government funds (with CB+ rates). So somehow in stable safe investments?

Then Blackrock and third parties are thriving on the extra negative interest. They only really win if CB rates are back to negative?

So YOU always loose when situation is back to before inflation?

 

They are speaking, if Wise falls down there will be Estonian guarantee fund. However your money is somewhere else. in funds, which can go down and you loose, not in any guarantee stuf. And I dont think Wise can normally go down, as they are only shifting money. They dont have your money and do things with it.

They make money on shifting.

 

They say Blackrock almost impossible to fall down, however not long ago they just lost a billion$ in no time.

And we have seen the down falls of many banks. Ah, wrong Blackrock isnt a real bank, the third parties are.

Wise also mention regular, capital risks. So you can use the Wise system, but your money is at risk.

For sure when the interest of CB go back to where they once were, 0% or even negative in which case you have to pay. You loose your money. And that would be the normal situation.

 

Then in this time it is indeed, the right time to attract customers with the positive interest. They win less, but eventually back in line, then win again big time.

We already know investments banks arent there for you, but just for their own gain. Greece as country went down on business with Goldman Sachs.

So now wonder if a Wise system is wise to do. Your money still coded as abroad money and Thailand tax?

Then it makes no sense in Wise system and sure not if CB rates go back to 0.

 

You see it happen in the 5 year chart on their site, then the funds are even lower then CB rate. So that is normal situation, it costs you 0.7% of your money. It is what i understand about it. It cost you /100000 euro or whatever 700 /year. You only get more interest if there is inflation, not in any other case.

Stalling your money in funds through Wise , costs you normally 0.7%/year. Thank you.

However it also happens with the normal banks only havent been that high as in Wise situation. If you see the situation the CB interest is -0.4% , and funds charge -0.7, a 0.3 % extra to win. So that is the set up from Blackrock.

 

So as long as inflation is there, you win some with Wise. But if it ends then you pay.

considering chart, 0.7 % of your stalled money. Banks close accounts and then you have to choose.

Wise? Bring it all in Thailand and get taxed? Thai banks what will they do with interest, can also become negative? Meaning you need to pay. Banks are worried about negative interest, Blackrock doesnt care and are normally charging, they dare.

With negative interest, people will get their money out of the bank, keep it at home?

Can you imagine that happening in the whole world?

When I was in Thailand this year, I saw a sudden amazing sale on safes in Global House. 

is that a sign? 

Next attack of banks, governments will be, you MUST pay digital. Ill bet on it.

Total control of your incomes and spending. They will squeeze you out of all your money, if they can by all means.

Reminds me of a movie, where you have a built in credit counter, if it gets to zero then you die.

Included every day, you are alive, it costs you, it counts down. 

 

So what is wise? Wise with Wise or not? Wise, wise as they do, but will cost you eventually, in safe funds? 

Will Blackrock raise negative interest, as now have monopoly with Wise.

Will you be auto tax charged in Thailand using Wise?

 

 

[xtrnuno41]

51 minutes ago, xtrnuno41 said:

OK start reading some more. It seems, as you said, you are in funds, investment. Meaning your money isnt protected anyhow, anyway. Weird is then they give interest on central banks rate. And that one is now 3.24% as off inflation fighting and will go down if inflation goes down to even negative. So return of investments isnt the real return amount (or is, as those (governments funds have that only percentage of CB+ extra?) and is going to Blackrock and mates? And Blackrock is only fundmanager and do the business then with a Barclays and JP Morgan, mentioned as third party? And Blackrock in this case should only do in safe government funds (with CB+ rates). So somehow in stable safe investments?

Then Blackrock and third parties are thriving on the extra negative interest. They only really win if CB rates are back to negative?

So YOU always loose when situation is back to before inflation?

 

They are speaking, if Wise falls down there will be Estonian guarantee fund. However your money is somewhere else. in funds, which can go down and you loose, not in any guarantee stuf. And I dont think Wise can normally go down, as they are only shifting money. They dont have your money and do things with it.

They make money on shifting.

 

They say Blackrock almost impossible to fall down, however not long ago they just lost a billion$ in no time.

And we have seen the down falls of many banks. Ah, wrong Blackrock isnt a real bank, the third parties are.

Wise also mention regular, capital risks. So you can use the Wise system, but your money is at risk.

For sure when the interest of CB go back to where they once were, 0% or even negative in which case you have to pay. You loose your money. And that would be the normal situation.

 

Then in this time it is indeed, the right time to attract customers with the positive interest. They win less, but eventually back in line, then win again big time.

We already know investments banks arent there for you, but just for their own gain. Greece as country went down on business with Goldman Sachs.

So now wonder if a Wise system is wise to do. Your money still coded as abroad money and Thailand tax?

Then it makes no sense in Wise system and sure not if CB rates go back to 0.

 

You see it happen in the 5 year chart on their site, then the funds are even lower then CB rate. So that is normal situation, it costs you 0.7% of your money. It is what i understand about it. It cost you /100000 euro or whatever 700 /year. You only get more interest if there is inflation, not in any other case.

Stalling your money in funds through Wise , costs you normally 0.7%/year. Thank you.

However it also happens with the normal banks only havent been that high as in Wise situation. If you see the situation the CB interest is -0.4% , and funds charge -0.7, a 0.3 % extra to win. So that is the set up from Blackrock.

 

So as long as inflation is there, you win some with Wise. But if it ends then you pay.

considering chart, 0.7 % of your stalled money. Banks close accounts and then you have to choose.

Wise? Bring it all in Thailand and get taxed? Thai banks what will they do with interest, can also become negative? Meaning you need to pay. Banks are worried about negative interest, Blackrock doesnt care and are normally charging, they dare.

With negative interest, people will get their money out of the bank, keep it at home?

Can you imagine that happening in the whole world?

When I was in Thailand this year, I saw a sudden amazing sale on safes in Global House. 

is that a sign? 

Next attack of banks, governments will be, you MUST pay digital. Ill bet on it.

Total control of your incomes and spending. They will squeeze you out of all your money, if they can by all means.

Reminds me of a movie, where you have a built in credit counter, if it gets to zero then you die.

Included every day, you are alive, it costs you, it counts down. 

 

So what is wise? Wise with Wise or not? Wise, wise as they do, but will cost you eventually, in safe funds? 

Will Blackrock raise negative interest, as now have monopoly with Wise.

Will you be auto tax charged in Thailand using Wise?

 

 

Sorry, Blackrock lost 1700 billon$

[anterian]

I have a UK address and a Thai address, my bank knows both. I am retired on a pension, pay a small tax on my pension. 

I anticipated all this kerfuffle a couple of years ago so simply added my son to my account making it a joint account. As long as you have a UK resident you can trust this seems the simple solution. 

[BritManToo]

7 hours ago, anterian said:

I have a UK address and a Thai address, my bank knows both. I am retired on a pension, pay a small tax on my pension. 

I anticipated all this kerfuffle a couple of years ago so simply added my son to my account making it a joint account. As long as you have a UK resident you can trust this seems the simple solution. 

The simple solution is to not tell anyone you live outside the UK.

[Pumpuynarak]

8 hours ago, anterian said:

I have a UK address and a Thai address, my bank knows both. I am retired on a pension, pay a small tax on my pension. 

I anticipated all this kerfuffle a couple of years ago so simply added my son to my account making it a joint account. As long as you have a UK resident you can trust this seems the simple solution. 

Agreed and i intend to do exactly that on my next visit to the UK. Question - If my son holds POA can he just go into my bank and add himself to my account ?

[Mike Teavee]

12 hours ago, anterian said:

I have a UK address and a Thai address, my bank knows both. I am retired on a pension, pay a small tax on my pension. 

I anticipated all this kerfuffle a couple of years ago so simply added my son to my account making it a joint account. As long as you have a UK resident you can trust this seems the simple solution. 

Not sure which bank you're with but Barclays T&Cs say all account holders must be resident in the UK... 

https://www.barclays.co.uk/important-information/living-outside-the-uk/#:~:text=An incorrect address could affect,to be in the UK.

 

 

 

[anterian]

6 hours ago, Pumpuynarak said:

Agreed and i intend to do exactly that on my next visit to the UK. Question - If my son holds POA can he just go into my bank and add himself to my account ?

Many years ago I had POA on my dad's account with the Woolich, I did just that.

 

[placnx]

16 hours ago, xtrnuno41 said:

Sorry, Blackrock lost 1700 billon$

How could that be true? If Blackrock went under, it would make the Lehman Bros debacle look minuscule, and the US, maybe European, finance systems would risk melt down. Too big to fail. Anyway, customer funds are held separate from BLK assets.

[xtrnuno41]

2 hours ago, placnx said:

How could that be true? If Blackrock went under, it would make the Lehman Bros debacle look minuscule, and the US, maybe European, finance systems would risk melt down. Too big to fail. Anyway, customer funds are held separate from BLK assets.

"Peanuts"for Blackrock. They didnt go under, just lost it.

BlackRock is the world's largest asset manager, with US$9.42 trillion in assets under management as of June 30, 2023. [2]

[observer90210]

Looks like the good old cash seems to rule. 

 

Yes, risky to carry around but still the best and safest way to pay for goods-services and no dealing with the bullyish US, UK banks.

[noobexpat]

9 hours ago, Pumpuynarak said:

Agreed and i intend to do exactly that on my next visit to the UK. Question - If my son holds POA can he just go into my bank and add himself to my account ?

No. 

What type of POA is it? Of course you don't know - there are 4 options beginning with early ones being lasting or enduring.

[Pumpuynarak]

12 hours ago, noobexpat said:

No. 

What type of POA is it? Of course you don't know - there are 4 options beginning with early ones being lasting or enduring.

Thanks, i'll ask me son and get him to check with HSBC.

[Mutt Daeng]

On 10/3/2023 at 5:58 AM, Pumpuynarak said:

On 10/2/2023 at 5:23 PM, noobexpat said:

No. 

What type of POA is it? Of course you don't know - there are 4 options beginning with early ones being lasting or enduring.

Thanks, i'll ask me son and get him to check with HSBC.

A Limited POA would probably do the job.

https://www.thelegalstop.co.uk/Business/Limited-Power-of-Attorney--Individual.html