New Thailand Elite Visa packages from September 15th ?

[Tuvoc]

28 minutes ago, richard_smith237 said:

Those who have the original if they wanted to transfer the value just went up !!...

Yes, great investment for those who bought those originally !

 

I don't think the new pricing is necessarily a death-knell, there will still be plenty of people who would pay those prices (but not me.)

[Mike Teavee]

3 hours ago, Neeranam said:

Are you saying that you can pay 900k baht for a 5 year visa but still need to do the 1 year extensions? Surely not. 

 

Yes if you spend 1 full year in Thailand, No if you exit Thailand at any point during the year as you will be given a new 1 year permission to stay on entry. 

 

IIRC the Guy I mentioned didn't realise this & ended up with an overstay of > 90 days which got him a 1 year ban at that time... 

 

[Mike Teavee]

2 hours ago, Neeranam said:

 

Now I'm totally confused why anyone would ever buy one of these things. 

I see how it can help someone, like yourself, who is travelling in and out a few times a year.  but you have to go to immigration every 90 days is bizarre. 

 

 

I have been seriously considering applying for 1 under the current scheme (1Million Baht for 20 years) as in reality it's only 200K (I have to keep 800K in bank for my Non-IMM O anyway & consider that money as spent already).

 

In fact I tried to apply before doing my last extension but the sh1tty application form that the formal Thai Elite Site gives you doesn't work, can't enter phone number in one of the fields + something else that I had to try to edit in with Adobe... Why do they ask you all the questions that the form needs answering & then ask you to provide all that information again on a form doesn't work.  

 

My reasoning was really simple, I pay an Agent 8K to do my extension (160K over 20 years) plus another 4K for a multi re-entry permit (another 80K) - I know I can do it myself just like I can queue up at the airport & not use the Fast lane but I choose to pay not to do this (So add in 1,200b per exit/entry to Thailand or 80K for my annual trip home to the UK which I'd do in economy if I can have fast track/lounge access at the airport).   

 

Have just extended my current permission to stay so assuming they give me the visa from the end of it (26th Sept 2024) I'll be 78 by the time it expires & that feels good enough to me. 

 

 

Does anybody have any recommendation for an Agent to use to do this for me, It would seem that it wouldn't cost me anything to use an agent & I'm in no rush to get the Visa so why not?

 

 

[JBChiangRai]

8 minutes ago, Mike Teavee said:

I have been seriously considering applying for 1 under the current scheme (1Million Baht for 20 years) as in reality it's only 200K (I have to keep 800K in bank for my Non-IMM O anyway & consider that money as spent already).

 

 

 

My reasoning was really simple, I pay an Agent 8K to do my extension (160K over 20 years) plus another 4K for a multi re-entry permit (another 80K)

 

 

Calculating the 20 year ESE is only 200k more than Retirement extension was exactly my thought process too.  It's more than 25 years since the Retirement 800k has had a review, at some point soon I believe the 200k extra will become a saving in real terms.

 

As far as the agent route goes, I think that scam scheme will be ending well before your 20 year ESE expires.

[lamyai3]

21 minutes ago, Mike Teavee said:

I have been seriously considering applying for 1 under the current scheme (1Million Baht for 20 years) as in reality it's only 200K (I have to keep 800K in bank for my Non-IMM O anyway & consider that money as spent already).

Similar thoughts here. Wondering if it'd be necessary to leave Thailand and come back on a visa exempt entry in order to access the money to pay, given that the unfunded period on the Non O between payment and having the PE sticker affixed could constitute an overstay? 

[Mike Teavee]

17 minutes ago, JBChiangRai said:

Calculating the 20 year ESE is only 200k more than Retirement extension was exactly my thought process too.  It's more than 25 years since the Retirement 800k has had a review, at some point soon I believe the 200k extra will become a saving in real terms.

 

As far as the agent route goes, I think that scam scheme will be ending well before your 20 year ESE expires.

My Agent just completes/make sure my paperwork is in order before I go to do my extension & at 6,100b (8,000 - 1,900 immigration fee) I don't feel like it's a scam...

 

But I was more asking about recommendations for an Agent to do the Elite Visa process for me (If it costs me nothing & I if I don't need it quickly then why not let somebody else do all of the work for me).

 

I do agree that the 800K is likely to be sharply increased at some point but I sincerely hope that existing Non-IMM O guys are "Grandfathered" in (Yes I am one of them ???? ), be interesting to see how much Agent's "Financially Assisted" Visas go up by when it does. 

[Mike Teavee]

3 minutes ago, lamyai3 said:

Similar thoughts here. Wondering if it'd be necessary to leave Thailand and come back on a visa exempt entry in order to access the money to pay, given that the unfunded period on the Non O between payment and having the PE sticker affixed could constitute an overstay? 

No need to leave Thailand... Thailand Elite & will take you to Immigration to have your new Visa stamped in your Passport - My concern is my current Permission to stay is until 26/9/2024 so will I get a new Visa from then or will I lose the 1 year that I've just extended.

 

[JBChiangRai]

6 minutes ago, Mike Teavee said:

My Agent just completes/make sure my paperwork is in order before I go to do my extension & at 6,100b (8,000 - 1,900 immigration fee) I don't feel like it's a scam...

 

I should have been clearer, the scam is the visa agents in conjunction with corrupt immigration officer issuing retirement extensions when people don't meet the requirements vis-a-vis savings/income.  I believe Big Joke called it "window dressing", window dressing won't last forever.

[mokwit]

9 minutes ago, JBChiangRai said:

I should have been clearer, the scam is the visa agents in conjunction with corrupt immigration officer issuing retirement extensions when people don't meet the requirements vis-a-vis savings/income.  I believe Big Joke called it "window dressing", window dressing won't last forever.

Isn't there 800k in the bank on the day of the extension as per the law?

[JBChiangRai]

Just now, mokwit said:

Isn't there 800k in the bank on the day of the extension as per the law?

No, renewing the retirement extension requires 800k in the bank continuously for 3 months before granting and 2 months after.

 

I think that's correct, I've been on the elite ESE for nearly 5 years with 15 years left so I am out of touch.

[farangbuffalo]

2 hours ago, Tuvoc said:

That is incorrect. Yes there was a bare-bones 1M 20 year package. But comparing apples with apples, the old 20 year package with all the privileges was 2M baht. The replacement for that package is now 5M baht, which is "only" a 150% increase, not 400%.

It is a fair comparison because nobody buys these visas for the stupid benefits. You can easily just pay for a massage, AOT limo or immigration fast lane whenever you actually need it without having to spend an extra 1m baht up front for the 'privilege'. In fact, the interest on that extra 1M baht just sat in a savings account would likely more than pay for the benefits you're likely to use each year lol

 

I'd be willing to be bet the 1M baht version outsells the 2M baht version easily more than 10 to 1. 

 

 

Edited August 31, 2023 by farangbuffalo

[JBChiangRai]

I don’t play golf, don’t like massage and living in Chiang Rai the limo service is unavailable, so the no frills ESE service is all I need.

[mokwit]

9 minutes ago, JBChiangRai said:

I should have been clearer, the scam is the visa agents in conjunction with corrupt immigration officer issuing retirement extensions when people don't meet the requirements vis-a-vis savings/income.  I believe Big Joke called it "window dressing", window dressing won't last forever.

Isn't there 800k in the bank on the day of the extension as per the law?

[mokwit]

1 hour ago, farangbuffalo said:

But comparing apples with apples, the old 20 year package with all the privileges was 2M baht. The replacement for that package is now 5M baht, which is "only" a 150% increase, not 400%.

Obviously aiming to attract "quality" criminals.

[JBChiangRai]

3 minutes ago, mokwit said:

Isn't there 800k in the bank on the day of the extension as per the law?

Mostly not.  The people I know who use these agents don’t have 800k in the bank, they have no choice but to use an agent.

 

. 

 

 

[K2938]

5 hours ago, richard_smith237 said:

I can't help but consider the 'new prices' is a death knell and Thai Elite are about to kill their own business

I fear you might be wrong.  The number of applicants will certainly decline, but might well be compensated for by the higher fees per applicant. 

 

And if you look at neighboring countries, then Malaysia and even Indonesia are also quite costly long-term visa wise.  The Philippines for example is not, but there you also have high crime and various other problems which put off many people.  To be honest, the elite visa was quite cheap before the price increases for a country like Thailand.

 

So based on all this I fear one might also expect a significant increase in the price of Non-O visas in one form or another in the not too distant future

[K2938]

4 hours ago, Mike Teavee said:

Does anybody have any recommendation for an Agent to use to do this for me, It would seem that it wouldn't cost me anything to use an agent & I'm in no rush to get the Visa so why not?

If you use an agent, you should only use an official agent, i.e. one of those also mentioned on the official website of Thai Privilege.  Then you might want to look for one who shares his commission in one form or another.  I think Siam Legal for example does this via gift vouchers and various other free services.  And for your own safety never make any payment to the agent, but only directly to Thai Privilege.

[El Matador]

What an increase.

What bothers the most is the new marketing team is doubling down on extra perks which is something nobody asked. Basically the basic 20 years superiority extension visa (costing 1 million) with very minimal perks is dead. You now have to buy perks you may not need to get a long term visa.

They are transforming the visa into a basket of luxury services rich people could buy separately.

They maybe thought people bought those visas for extra perks and don't seem to think the recent success is mainly due to geopolitical events.

I guess the only market which could find some interest is the Chinese one where some people buy things to get a status. But is a big gamble actually.

Let's not forget the 5millions one despite being a joke is not the main visa as it limited to 100 people (to create fake privilege). The new 900k entry level visa will decide the fate of the new marketing team. It would have been wise to increase it by 100k each year to reflect inflation and to test the market before making a risky reset.

 

[Hal65]

The 100 person restriction on the 5m visa is reflective of the fact they do not intend to sell many of them. You are buying the 15 year for 2.5m and another 5 years for 2.5m. The only people who would do that are so value unconscious that they prefer Singapore and similar.

 

The 15 year at 2.5m is the most comparable visa to the old 20 year at 1m.

 

Less commitment to less people, for more money is their calculus. Given the flood of 10k applications per year, they had the leverage to do it. The "right" amount of people will still pay more for less years.

 

I'm in disagreement that it was a COVID surge. China and Asia grows richer by the year. This is 21st century elite pricing.

[Ben Zioner]

19 hours ago, Tuvoc said:

The replacement for that package is now 5M baht, which is "only" a 150% increase, not 400%.

Try again...

 

Ok, my bad.. the increase is indeed of 150%. Slap

Edited September 1, 2023 by Ben Zioner

[redwood1]

They hype the elite visa privilege benifits like its some kind of treasure...

 

I would not pay 500 baht for any of that stuff......I and I think many others have ZERO interst in the privilege nonsense..

 

If they want to move some product how about selling some elites that have no benifits what-so-ever except time....

 

But nope.....Hype has very fat margins.....lol

Edited September 1, 2023 by redwood1

[sqwakvfr]

Is the “Limo” actually a van?  I know someone on an Elite and he called for the “Limo” at BKK and a dude picked him up in a van.  Or is it just TIT?

[Karma80]

1 hour ago, redwood1 said:

They hype the elite visa privilege benifits like its some kind of treasure...

 

I would not pay 500 baht for any of that stuff......I and I think many others have ZERO interst in the privilege nonsense..

 

If they want to move some product how about selling some elites that have no benifits what-so-ever except time....

 

But nope.....Hype has very fat margins.....lol

Elite knows that most people who still work are just using it to structure tax residency in Thailand and pay zero tax from income generated elsewhere.

 

In that respect, the flat fee is likely a lot less than the tax you would otherwise be exposed to over a year or so. As long as Thailand continues to turn a blind eye to that it's very attractive. The other "benefits" are pretty pathetic, I agree.

[JayClay]

On 8/31/2023 at 12:07 PM, Neeranam said:

I thought those agents, that people keep telling me are legal, can give you a visa for volunteering, studying etc. 

 

Last time I checked an ED visa with all extensions cost around 60,000+bt per year, involved at least 3 trips to immigration each year and flying out the country at least one time per year.

 

The 20 year Elite visa at the old rate of 1m baht worked out at a similar price for much more convenience and peace of mind.

 

Even a 5 year visa at 600,000bt was a tempting alternative.... Around twice as much per year than the ED visa for an undisputably genuine visa with none of the additional hassle involved. Plus the chance to upgrade to the 20 year visa without any financial penalty.

 

At 900,000 for the 5 year option it becomes a lot less attractive for the ED/Voulenteer crowd. The additional 80,000 or so per year could just as easily pay for a nice little 2 month break outside the country each year.

 

But, then, I guess that isn't the target market for the Thai Elite.

Edited September 1, 2023 by JayClay

[Hal65]

I'm in the long term ED visa crowd, my most current one will take me over the 10 year mark in Thailand. ED it is until I'm 50 in 12 more years. Or if they decide to do a serious crackdown, off to the Phils or Cambodia. 

 

As we are seeing here it's a pure monetary decision as to what will happen. If Thailand becomes rich enough to expel us middle income expats on non-work visas without much dent to their economy, they will. If not, they won't.

 

Putting personal desires aside I think in another 10 years they will be rich enough to clamp down hard.

[richard_smith237]

1 hour ago, JayClay said:

At 900,000 for the 5 year option it becomes a lot less attractive for the ED/Voulenteer crowd. The additional 80,000 or so per year could just as easily pay for a nice little 2 month break outside the country each year.

At prices like this it won't be long at all before someone starts a racket of 'paper marriages' to poor Thai girls so the guy can get his Non-Imm O Visa and extension. 

 

Perhaps this has long been running which is why Immigration check the marital residence of some visa / extension applicants. 

 

 

[ukrules]

6 hours ago, Karma80 said:

Elite knows that most people who still work are just using it to structure tax residency in Thailand and pay zero tax from income generated elsewhere.

Yes.

[Tuvoc]

On 8/31/2023 at 10:15 PM, JBChiangRai said:

I don’t play golf, don’t like massage and living in Chiang Rai the limo service is unavailable, so the no frills ESE service is all I need.

Yes, same here. 

[lamyai3]

On 8/31/2023 at 3:41 PM, Mike Teavee said:

No need to leave Thailand... Thailand Elite & will take you to Immigration to have your new Visa stamped in your Passport - My concern is my current Permission to stay is until 26/9/2024 so will I get a new Visa from then or will I lose the 1 year that I've just extended.

 

The PE visa stamp will be affixed showing date of application, any existing permission to stay on the Non O is lost.

 

Regarding getting the stamp affixed, I understand Thailand Elite facilitate this. However there's a number of days between payment and getting the new stamp. This leaves someone on a Non O extension of stay who uses the 800k deposit as payment for the Elite exposed and technically on overstay for perhaps a couple of weeks. Isn't it necessary to change visa class in order to use this money to pay for the new visa?

Edited September 1, 2023 by lamyai3

[BritTim]

4 hours ago, lamyai3 said:

However there's a number of days between payment and getting the new stamp. This leaves someone on a Non O extension of stay who uses the 800k deposit as payment for the Elite exposed and technically on overstay for perhaps a couple of weeks.

This is commonly misunderstood. A failure to keep the stated bank deposits when on a retirement extension does not invalidate your permission to stay and put you on overstay. Keeping the money in the bank is only required in order to be eligible for the next one-year extension. It is clear that this is the situation. Those who have had their bank deposits drop below the required level have never been found to be on overstay. They have simply been refused a further extension.