Trump charged with four counts over 2020 election

[sirineou]

3 hours ago, bignok said:

Up to you. I don't see any crimes.

Do you know what a grand jury is?

Google it. Obviously they saw a crime .

   Perhaps if you  have heard the same evidence they were presented with, and stopped getting your news from sources who whisper in your ear  the sweet little nothings you want to hear , you would also see a crime. 

    I am not trying to be  disrespectful to you, but drinking the kool aid is a big problem. not only in the US but the world. People watch the news outlets that validate their bias. (who does not like being validated?),   people watching the channels that play their  kind of shows they like etc.  and they create a bubble around them,  that gives the a perspective of what things are like and what is going on, that is not entirely correct. It contains enough truth in it  to be plausible , but not the whole truth to be truthful. 

   If I might be as presumptuous as to tell you what to do,I propose you log on to , let's say Google news on your computer,  , Read all the headlines from all the newspapers . If there is something that interest you dive deeper into it, and not only see what those who agree with you have to say, but more importantly those who disagree with your point of view. , Because those are the ones who will challenge you. 

 Forget about TV news Fox, CNN, MSNBC ,BBC  etc, You will not get a complete picture from any of them, They all have their bias, something to gain, and something too lose. They are businesses, they have a product and you are the consumer. They will sell you what they think you are there to buy.  

Anyway. I hope you appreciate me taking the time to write this 

 

[wwest5829]

6 hours ago, bignok said:

Trump's case has been assigned to US District Court Judge Tanya Chutkan, who was appointed by former president Barack Obama in 2014.

The judge has already ruled against Trump in the past when he tried to use executive privilege to block access to records from his time in the White House connected to the 6 January riot.

“Presidents are not kings, and plaintiff is not president,” Chutkan said in that ruling

Agree with her statement and reasoning. 

[Tropposurfer]

I will make a somewhat informed guess ... Based on many hours of widespread reading of both US documents, books on both Trumps past, Putins life, and the Smith indictment we saw today, international varied press reporting, articles, highly credible legal and espionage/spy Masters opinions he is indeed looking and decades of prison, should justice be handed down impartially.

 

There is no precedent remember. Yes Nixon was impeached and pardoned but even his crimes pale in insignificance to those levelled at Trump and those entranced zealot fools around him. 

 

I have a gut feeling that other charges from the uncovering of links to Russians and the Saudi's will soon follow as a result of Smiths exhaustive and expert investigations under the wide ranging independent investigative powers as a 'Special Prosecutor' Smith has.

 

Don't forget when trump sent Parnas, Giuliani, Flynn to Europe to try to find the smoking guns of Biden's relationships and hoped for wrong doings they were told by Italys spy and EU and Italian financial crimes bodies that it was in fact Trump that they needed to be looking at and that they were sure he had committed massive international financial crimes.

These alleged crimes (and enough evidence held by these Euro bodies to say with certainty that Trump was guilty of their accusations) were connected to truly shady characters with direct ties to Putin through dudes in Azerbaijan, Moscow, and other places.

I cannot imagine that this shocking declaration is not being followed by the DOJ. 

 

I have watched a few investigative reports in recent times from a few agencies worldwide e.g. Rachel Maddow USA, 7.30 Report ABC Sydney, ITV England, a few investigative rags like Rolling Stone, and a Washington rag I can't remember the name of.

These have begun to surface and identify truly shocking stuffs. re: state secrets trading, treasonous quid-pro-quo, bribes of staggering proportions and if any of these are to be credibly evaluated as true then they have begun to uncover an alarming and suspect relationship with foreign entities all surrounding Trump and some if not all of his family.

These reports describe and begin to document events going back to before the 2016 declaration of Trumps candidacy for the Presidency.

 

There is the issue of the FBI beginning an investigation into Trump back in 2016'ish from alarm bells being rung across the security apparatus that he was acting EXACTLY like a Russian asset.

Maybe, if this is found to be true, it was/is because he was/is an idiot. A cunning one yes (but in the league of Putin and his network no way!) and had no idea he was being played like a violin by Putin, or also because of his extreme narcissism and sociopathy he was aware of what he was connected to and doing but simply didn't care because all he could see was power and money for himself.

 

Remember Smiths background as an international war-crimes investigator and judge and the breadth of such experience in uncovering the dark hidden webs of crimes such folks can get up to is second-to-none in world judicial circles.

If Smith was given any of these investigative reports and does his job he will pass these on to Garland without doubt, and if he believes them credible won't allow them to be swept away by anyone. Such is the level of judicial chops and integrity this man is said to have.

 

We can be reasonably sure of one thing.

 

Smith would not bring such charges unless he had, in his and his expert teams opinions, a  water tight case.

He aint' no flash, bellicose tv lawyer looking for 5 minutes of fame he's the real deal.

[ozimoron]

Dallas attorney Sidney Powell appears to be one of six unnamed co-conspirators which the Justice Department accused Tuesday of playing key roles in former President Donald Trump’s attempts to overturn the 2020 election.

 

https://www.rawstory.com/sidney-powell-2662672954/

[OneMoreFarang]

51 minutes ago, newnative said:

     One ray of hope to keep in mind.  Those 70 million Trump supporters you mention (actually 74 million and change) who voted for Trump in Nov. 2020, were voting for a sitting president who, at that point, had not done any of the criminal things he is now being charged with, including these latest charges and also the criminal mishandling of highly classified documents.   Plus, Georgia indictments still to come. 

   Being an optimistic, glass half-full guy, I can only hope that there are still some Republicans with a functioning brain who now have enough overwhelming evidence to finally, finally turn away from Trump.  I certainly hope he does not still have 74 million Americans who would, at this point, have to be brain-dead, who would vote for him again.  

I would love to agree with you. But it seems reality, for those Trump fans, is different.

He is the leading GOP candidate, not by a little, but by a large margin.

And every time he is prosecuted, he gets more support from his followers.

Normal logic doesn't apply to him and his supporters. I wish it would, but that is just wishful thinking. 

 

[ozimoron]

1 minute ago, OneMoreFarang said:

I would love to agree with you. But it seems reality, for those Trump fans, is different.

He is the leading GOP candidate, not by a little, but by a large margin.

And every time he is prosecuted, he gets more support from his followers.

Normal logic doesn't apply to him and his supporters. I wish it would, but that is just wishful thinking. 

 

He does indeed get more support from his followers. They are already going to vote for him. He needs people who voted against him in 2020 to vote for him this time. Can you see that happening?

[OneMoreFarang]

45 minutes ago, Walker88 said:

Why? Because most of them are low IQ idiots who have zero understanding of the US Constitution, and many think it only has one Amendment...the 2nd.

 

trump owns the Incel demographic, he owns the Neo Nazi demographic, he owns the white supremacist demographic, he own the QAnon demographic (people who believe Tom Hanks and Hillary kidnap, rape, roast and eat babies, all done in the basement of a pizza parlor in DC that doesn't even have a basement. None of those are the brightest bulbs.

 

By definition, half the people are below average intelligence. Move farther left of the mean on the IQ Bell Curve, into the areas defined as "moron", "imbecile" and "idiot", and you are in trumpistan. The US has around 240 million potential voters. Assuming 120 million of them are of below average intelligence, it is little wonder a clown like trump can pull 70 million votes. Fortunately, Biden pulled millions more votes.

 

For better or worse, there is no minimum IQ regarding who can, or cannot vote. The judgement of someone who believes the QAnon drivel is---to say it politely---questionable. Still, they can vote.

What a wonderful explanation.

I also think that his supporters are mostly stupid. But, looking at reality, there are also enough intelligent people who support him. There are even more intelligent people who support the GOP in general. And we all know that the GOP is in the moment a Trump fan club.

Fact is, they are not all stupid. That is the frightening part. 

And senile Biden is obviously not helping to convince the people that there is a better alternative.

And for the record, I would never ever vote for Trump. 

[OneMoreFarang]

20 minutes ago, sirineou said:

 If I might be as presumptuous as to tell you what to do,I propose you log on to , let's say Google news on your computer,  , Read all the headlines from all the newspapers

Great idea. Except the Google results are obviously also filtered, and optimized for each user.

I agree with most of what you wrote above. But the problem is that we all live in our bubbles. We see the bubbles of the other and how can those others be so stupid not to recognize their bubble. Guess what they say about our bubbles... 

[CharlieKo]

With so many charges laid against Trump it seems that maybe the prosecution aren't sure any of them will stick. The dems must be so desperate! 

[ozimoron]

11 minutes ago, OneMoreFarang said:

What a wonderful explanation.

I also think that his supporters are mostly stupid. But, looking at reality, there are also enough intelligent people who support him. There are even more intelligent people who support the GOP in general. And we all know that the GOP is in the moment a Trump fan club.

Fact is, they are not all stupid. That is the frightening part. 

And senile Biden is obviously not helping to convince the people that there is a better alternative.

And for the record, I would never ever vote for Trump. 

What intelligent person supports a person with this many indictments of this nature?

 

The same people who think Pizzagate was real I suppose.

Edited August 2, 2023 by ozimoron

[ozimoron]

1 minute ago, CharlieKo said:

With so many charges laid against Trump it seems that maybe the prosecution aren't sure any of them will stick. The dems must be so desperate! 

so, if he commits 100 crimes, he should only be charged for 2? That's the logic you're presenting here.

[OneMoreFarang]

16 minutes ago, Tropposurfer said:

I will make a somewhat informed guess ... Based on many hours of widespread reading of both US documents, books on both Trumps past, Putins life, and the Smith indictment we saw today, international varied press reporting, articles, highly credible legal and espionage/spy Masters opinions he is indeed looking and decades of prison, should justice be handed down impartially.

 

There is no precedent remember. Yes Nixon was impeached and pardoned but even his crimes pale in insignificance to those levelled at Trump and those entranced zealot fools around him. 

 

I have a gut feeling that other charges from the uncovering of links to Russians and the Saudi's will soon follow as a result of Smiths exhaustive and expert investigations under the wide ranging independent investigative powers as a 'Special Prosecutor' Smith has.

 

Don't forget when trump sent Parnas, Giuliani, Flynn to Europe to try to find the smoking guns of Biden's relationships and hoped for wrong doings they were told by Italys spy and EU and Italian financial crimes bodies that it was in fact Trump that they needed to be looking at and that they were sure he had committed massive international financial crimes.

These alleged crimes (and enough evidence held by these Euro bodies to say with certainty that Trump was guilty of their accusations) were connected to truly shady characters with direct ties to Putin through dudes in Azerbaijan, Moscow, and other places.

I cannot imagine that this shocking declaration is not being followed by the DOJ. 

 

I have watched a few investigative reports in recent times from a few agencies worldwide e.g. Rachel Maddow USA, 7.30 Report ABC Sydney, ITV England, a few investigative rags like Rolling Stone, and a Washington rag I can't remember the name of.

These have begun to surface and identify truly shocking stuffs. re: state secrets trading, treasonous quid-pro-quo, bribes of staggering proportions and if any of these are to be credibly evaluated as true then they have begun to uncover an alarming and suspect relationship with foreign entities all surrounding Trump and some if not all of his family.

These reports describe and begin to document events going back to before the 2016 declaration of Trumps candidacy for the Presidency.

 

There is the issue of the FBI beginning an investigation into Trump back in 2016'ish from alarm bells being rung across the security apparatus that he was acting EXACTLY like a Russian asset.

Maybe, if this is found to be true, it was/is because he was/is an idiot. A cunning one yes (but in the league of Putin and his network no way!) and had no idea he was being played like a violin by Putin, or also because of his extreme narcissism and sociopathy he was aware of what he was connected to and doing but simply didn't care because all he could see was power and money for himself.

 

Remember Smiths background as an international war-crimes investigator and judge and the breadth of such experience in uncovering the dark hidden webs of crimes such folks can get up to is second-to-none in world judicial circles.

If Smith was given any of these investigative reports and does his job he will pass these on to Garland without doubt, and if he believes them credible won't allow them to be swept away by anyone. Such is the level of judicial chops and integrity this man is said to have.

 

We can be reasonably sure of one thing.

 

Smith would not bring such charges unless he had, in his and his expert teams opinions, a  water tight case.

He aint' no flash, bellicose tv lawyer looking for 5 minutes of fame he's the real deal.

Great, then we don't have to worry. Trump will be found guilty and go to jail. Hurray! 

And many of us think that since years - and he is still free and running for president. 

[CharlieKo]

1 minute ago, ozimoron said:

so, if he commits 100 crimes, he should only be charged for 2? That's the logic you're presenting here.

My point is, if they had even one strong case that would put trump behind bars. they would go for that. But they obviously don't. So, they are trying to throw the book at him. Still a long way to go to prove any of it. But Trump haters will be Trump haters!  

[bignok]

2 minutes ago, CharlieKo said:

My point is, if they had even one strong case that would put trump behind bars. they would go for that. But they obviously don't. So, they are trying to throw the book at him. Still a long way to go to prove any of it. But Trump haters will be Trump haters!  

No substance to any of it. Remember the 2016 Russians argument. 

 

 

[Bkk Brian]

2 minutes ago, CharlieKo said:

My point is, if they had even one strong case that would put trump behind bars. they would go for that. But they obviously don't. So, they are trying to throw the book at him. Still a long way to go to prove any of it. But Trump haters will be Trump haters!  

Another one that's not read the indictment

[jerrymahoney]

48 minutes ago, placeholder said:

Republicans Increasingly Realize There’s No Evidence Of Election Fraud—But Most Still Think 2020 Election Was Stolen Anyway, Poll Finds

So if a pollster asks a Trump supporter or 2020 Trump voter, 'Do you think that the 2020 election was stolen?' do you expect them to say "NO".

[CharlieKo]

7 minutes ago, OneMoreFarang said:

Great, then we don't have to worry. Trump will be found guilty and go to jail. Hurray! 

And many of us think that since years - and he is still free and running for president. 

Supposedly he could still run for president from prison. If he wins he can pardon himself.

[ozimoron]

Just now, bignok said:

No substance to any of it. Remember the 2016 Russians argument. 

 

 

The one where Manafort was convicted and Giuliani went to London to speak with the wikileaks traitor?

[bignok]

Just now, CharlieKo said:

Supposedly he could still run for president from prison. If he wins he can pardon himself.

Thats what I was told. Be funny.

[ozimoron]

1 minute ago, CharlieKo said:

Supposedly he could still run for president from prison. If he wins he can pardon himself.

First premise true, second false.

[CharlieKo]

1 minute ago, bignok said:

No substance to any of it. Remember the 2016 Russians argument. 

 

 

I agree. Jack Smith is using something like 60 lawyers and para legals to troll through all the evidence, and this is all they can come up with. 

[bignok]

2 minutes ago, jerrymahoney said:

So if a pollster asks a Trump supporter or 2020 Trump voter, 'Do you think that the 2020 election was stolen?' do you expect them to say "NO".

Hillary claimed the Russians rigged 2016. How come she was not charged?

[CharlieKo]

Just now, ozimoron said:

First premise true, second false.

We shall see if it happens. lol.

[ozimoron]

1 minute ago, bignok said:

Hillary claimed the Russians rigged 2016. How come she was not charged?

Jack Smith acknowledged Trump's right to claim that as much as he liked. That's not what he's being charged for.

Edited August 2, 2023 by ozimoron

[Red Forever]

7 hours ago, bignok said:

Judge is a black woman appointed by Obama.

 

No bias here.

You missed out the "I'm not racist but" bit .

[bignok]

40 minutes ago, sirineou said:

Do you know what a grand jury is?

Google it. Obviously they saw a crime .

   Perhaps if you  have heard the same evidence they were presented with, and stopped getting your news from sources who whisper in your ear  the sweet little nothings you want to hear , you would also see a crime. 

    I am not trying to be  disrespectful to you, but drinking the kool aid is a big problem. not only in the US but the world. People watch the news outlets that validate their bias. (who does not like being validated?),   people watching the channels that play their  kind of shows they like etc.  and they create a bubble around them,  that gives the a perspective of what things are like and what is going on, that is not entirely correct. It contains enough truth in it  to be plausible , but not the whole truth to be truthful. 

   If I might be as presumptuous as to tell you what to do,I propose you log on to , let's say Google news on your computer,  , Read all the headlines from all the newspapers . If there is something that interest you dive deeper into it, and not only see what those who agree with you have to say, but more importantly those who disagree with your point of view. , Because those are the ones who will challenge you. 

 Forget about TV news Fox, CNN, MSNBC ,BBC  etc, You will not get a complete picture from any of them, They all have their bias, something to gain, and something too lose. They are businesses, they have a product and you are the consumer. They will sell you what they think you are there to buy.  

Anyway. I hope you appreciate me taking the time to write this 

 

I dont care. Why would anybody waste hours watching news?

 

 

[jerrymahoney]

1 minute ago, bignok said:

Hillary claimed the Russians rigged 2016. How come she was not charged?

As of Jan 2017, Trump was President. 'Guess it was up to him.

[bignok]

Just now, Red Forever said:

You missed out the "I'm not racist but" bit .

Posting facts isnt racist.

[ozimoron]

3 minutes ago, CharlieKo said:

We shall see if it happens. lol.

https://news.yahoo.com/can-trump-pardon-himself-if-he-wins-in-2024-202946662.html

[traveller101]

7 hours ago, bignok said:

I don't anything real here. All fake trumped up charges. He didn't cause the riots. All he did was question the election results.

 

 

Reading this [deleted] - what comes to mind ........