Opinion Editorial: No, It Isn’t Time to Worry About RETIREMENT VISA Changes….Yet

[TallGuyJohninBKK]

31 minutes ago, Jingthing said:

Something is very rotten. 

Don't tell me they don't know what's going on with the agents.

That would be an insult to their intellegence.

But I can't for the life of me understand what's the real motivation to basically punish the expats that have been qualifying following all the rules to the letter.

 

What's missing from the whole plan laid out by Surachate is ANY connection between a farang's ability to pay increased visa or extension monies AND keeping criminals out of the country.

 

As I've mentioned elsewhere, who's likely to have an easier time coming up with a lot of extra cash:

 

--a motorcycle gang criminal involved in selling drugs, extortion, protections rackets, etc etc

 

vs

 

--your basic single or married farang living off his home country pension and perhaps some savings.

 

It's the CRIMINALS who have going to have a far easier time coming up with the extra money that might be demanded.

 

So in essence, the financial requirement alone won't do jack to keep the criminals out of Thailand, at least, not the motorcycle gang types.

 

[LudwigK]

There is no need to Change the law.

Corruption in the Immigration and too soft control of the requirements are the Problems,...best Example:800K control by annual Account Statement!!! 

Edited August 5, 2023 by LudwigK

[Jiggo]

6 hours ago, scubascuba3 said:

Forget increasing financial limits that won't help at all, do a criminal record check instead

That's good for those who didn't get caught or had a good lawyer 

[cjinchiangrai]

4 hours ago, mokwit said:

 

All kinds of new visa classes have been offered (by TE BoI MOFA), all but the Elite have onerous requirements such as criminal record checks. The OX aimed at high GDP per capita country applicants requires you to take the time and money to have a blood test to show you don't have Elephantiasis, leprosy and TB. these are very rare in these countries and you are far more likely to catch them here.

FYI, the Elite people do the criminal check as part of the approval process. 

 

I like the idea of a criminal check for O's though. I also like the idea of limiting O applications to one per year.

 

Eliminating the use of agents is going to be a bigger problem. It is a system that was not created by the applicants.

[foreverlomsak]

8 minutes ago, Scottie12 said:

Big Joke is the guy who put the kybosh on pension confirmation letters from your Consulate, he doesn't give a damn about pensioners,decent or otherwise.

AFAIK, only 3 Embassies/Consulates (US, AUS & UK) decided to withdraw the letters, as far as UK was concerned the reasoning was that it did not have the resources nor the ability to certify the truthfulness of the submitted pensions information, and therefore could no longer certify the correctness of the information on the Confirmation of Income letters.

I know/knew a few individuals who were providing false information to their embassy in order to get their letters.

[Golden Triangle]

3 hours ago, Ben Zioner said:

No, as I don't see how I could live in Thailand on less than 100k a month.

You lie like a cheap Japenese watch. ????

[mokwit]

13 minutes ago, Scottie12 said:

Big Joke is the guy who put the kybosh on pension confirmation letters from your Consulate, he doesn't give a damn about pensioners,decent or otherwise.

I don't think he is capable of understanding what distress his actions caused. I am sure he wouldn't care if he did, but I don't think he can.

[Artisi]

6 minutes ago, mokwit said:

I don't think he is capable of understanding what distress his actions caused. I am sure he wouldn't care if he did, but I don't think he can.

B. S. 

[mokwit]

3 minutes ago, cjinchiangrai said:

FYI, the Elite people do the criminal check as part of the approval process. 

OK thanks, I remeber now that they do, but it is for Thailand/Interpol notices not for criminal record from your home country?

 

4 minutes ago, cjinchiangrai said:

I like the idea of a criminal check for O's though. I also like the idea of limiting O applications to one per year.

I don't. I don't want to have to arrange another document, yet alone one with a date that has to coincide.

 

Why do you like the idea of limiting O applications to one a year, because you won't be affected but others will.

 

Be careful what you wish for, a lot of people "safe" with their retirement extension who were gloating at visa tightenings for others such as "border hoppers" and who thought everyone but them should be horsewhipped and deported got their comeuppance when an extra 400k/proof of remittance of 65k was introduced. be careful what you wish for, the rising tide might reach you.

 

Seriously, all these people who think the rules should be tightened to keep out others - General Prem isn't looking down from the heavens on you thinking, ahh yes, this is the type of good falang who are welcome in Thailand. There are types who come to Thailand that I am not keen on, but any tightening on them will likely affect me also in some way.

[matta]

All bad precedents started as justifiable measures

[Scouse123]

6 hours ago, scubascuba3 said:

Forget increasing financial limits that won't help at all, do a criminal record check instead

They do not have access to the databases of the EU or the UK to run these type of checks. How can you allow a corrupt, rotten to the core institution such as the RTP, always out for their own ends access to very sensitive private and privileged information?

 

You know full well even on Thai soil,the constant new laws introduced, although looking good on paper, never benefits the public, it just gives another string to the bow of the RTP to financially gain by foul means.

 

The RTP of which immigration is a branch has a filthy reputation abroad, no way would our respective governments give them access to such information which can be used for nefarious purposes.

 

5 hours ago, stoner said:

i'm sure agents will help with a criminal record check if you cant provide one. 

And herein lies the problem! The BIB have already found a way around the 800K a year in the bank, do you seriously think they won't find a way around the criminal records check. NONSENSE!

 

4 hours ago, Yeah rightio said:

Not if it's required from your home country as per an application for an OA Visa they won't.

You really think so? Thailand masters of fake driving licenses, passports, ID documents, Levis, Rolex, Louis Vuitton, you really think a CRO documents is going to beat them or get past them?

 

All the super sleuths on here and their ingenuous proposals that have been suggested countless times won't work for the following reasons.

 

1.  Criminals and I mean career criminals don't follow laws or rules or regulations.

 

2. The RTP don't follow or respect existing laws at their disposal.

 

3. Do you think Surachate or any of them in the positions they are in didn't have to hand over significant sums to attain their positions? Rank and position in this country is not earned, it's bought.

[Brian Hull]

How much money you have in the bank differentiates the baddies from the goodies. The well behaved expat retirees who mostly did an honest job all their life and are now living quietly on a pension have very little, while the crooks have heaps. Logic in the bureaucracy is not one of Thailand's strong points.

[cjinchiangrai]

4 hours ago, mokwit said:

 

All kinds of new visa classes have been offered (by TE BoI MOFA), all but the Elite have onerous requirements such as criminal record checks. The OX aimed at high GDP per capita country applicants requires you to take the time and money to have a blood test to show you don't have Elephantiasis, leprosy and TB. these are very rare in these countries and you are far more likely to catch them here.

FYI, the Elite people do the criminal check as part of the approval process. That is a key reason that it can take months to approve. They could treat O's the same if you want to wait.

 

If you want to eliminate deadbeats, limit O applications to one a year.

 

Eliminating the use of agents is going to be a bigger problem. It is a system that was not created by the applicants.

[stoner]

2 minutes ago, Scouse123 said:

1.  Criminals and I mean career criminals don't follow laws or rules or regulations.

this.

[Scouse123]

16 minutes ago, foreverlomsak said:

AFAIK, only 3 Embassies/Consulates (US, AUS & UK) decided to withdraw the letters, as far as UK was concerned the reasoning was that it did not have the resources nor the ability to certify the truthfulness of the submitted pensions information, and therefore could no longer certify the correctness of the information on the Confirmation of Income letters.

I know/knew a few individuals who were providing false information to their embassy in order to get their letters.

I think you are right, but the bone of contention was the Thai authorities rewording how they wanted these letters presented which amounted to Embassies basically guaranteeing everything on  behalf of their citizens, which they could not in honesty, as you said 'They didn't and don't have the resources '  and that became the stumbling block.

[mokwit]

2 minutes ago, cjinchiangrai said:

If you want to eliminate deadbeats, limit O applications to one a year.

Don't get where you are coming from from this - if you mean extension of Non O it is for one year, if you mean 3 month non O I don't get what you mean unless you mean anyone on a Multi O can't afford the 400k - but don't they have to show proof of that to get multi O?

[cjinchiangrai]

Just now, mokwit said:

Don't get where you are coming from from this - if you mean extension of Non O it is for one year, if you mean 3 month non O I don't get what you mean unless you mean anyone on a Multi O can't afford the 400k - but don't they have to show proof of that to get multi O?

The people that make visa runs 4 times a year to get a new 90 day O and never put up the money.

[mokwit]

5 minutes ago, cjinchiangrai said:

FYI, the Elite people do the criminal check as part of the approval process. That is a key reason that it can take months to approve. They could treat O's the same if you want to wait.

What kind of check and with who is this? I seem to remember it is for Thailand/Interpol notices not for criminal record from your home country? I don't think they get the non criminal record confirmation from an applicants country.

 

It will be up to us to get hard copy of this, not for the IB to get it.

[spidermike007]

It appears the reason why he was demoted as chief of immigration, was his constant grand standing, and xenophobic statements about foreigners. Quite bizarre coming from the immigration chief. Now? Nobody really understands how he not only resurfaced, but became national chief of police. 

 

Yes he might be influential. But, he is also a big talker. And I don't think anyone should be worried about his sometimes over zealous statements. I certainly won't. 

 

Fight crime, yes. Fight expats no. We do bring in alot of stable income.  Even the rural folks benefit. Alot of the nicer houses in the poorer farming areas were built with money from expats. Alot of trucks, cars and income is from expats. Countless business employing many. Thousands of hotels, restaurants, countless airlines and many tour companies, also benefit. By comparison, an average ex-pat spends how much per month? I would say alot of us spend 50,000 to upwards of 100,000 baht a month. I know I do. No value in that? I know some live on less. However, since the average income is around 25,000 baht, that is significant. Especially now. 

[The Theory]

I guess the main purpose is to push all retirees to use agents for all they need. Then you guess the rest. ????????????

[Scouse123]

Thailand can't stop Burmese, Lao and Cambodian nationals getting across the border, how are they going to stop seasoned criminals with substantial funds at their disposal from entering the country??

 

I bet a load of these coming up with bright ideas on this board to stop criminality are the first ones to whinge and bleat like sheep when they get pulled over by immigration for ' too many entries ' in a year!  

 

They want Thai law to be strong when it's something they don't like but to be weak when they are coming in without being in possession of the correct visas.

[scubascuba3]

12 minutes ago, Scouse123 said:

They do not have access to the databases of the EU or the UK to run these type of checks. How can you allow a corrupt, rotten to the core institution such as the RTP, always out for their own ends access to very sensitive private and privileged information?

It's not about them having access, retiree can get the report, similar to work visa requirements 

[findlay13]

3 hours ago, Bday Prang said:

so the rumour and fear mongering continues,  

Yep "the sky is falling" said Chicken Little . "We'll all be rooned" said Hanrahan 

 

[Scouse123]

3 minutes ago, spidermike007 said:

It appears the reason why he was demoted as chief of immigration, was his constant grand standing, and xenophobic statements about foreigners. Quite bizarre coming from the immigration chief. Now? Nobody really understands how he not only resurfaced, but became national chief of police. 

 

Yes he might be influential. But, he is also a big talker. And I don't think anyone should be worried about his sometimes over zealous statements. I certainly won't. 

 

Fight crime, yes. Fight expats no. We do bring in alot of stable income.  Even the rural folks benefit. Alot of the nicer houses in the poorer farming areas were built with money from expats. Alot of trucks, cars and income is from expats. Countless business employing many. Thousands of hotels, restaurants, countless airlines and many tour companies, also benefit. By comparison, an average ex-pat spends how much per month? I would say alot of us spend 50,000 to upwards of 100,000 baht a month. I know I do. No value in that? I know some live on less. However, since the average income is around 25,000 baht, that is significant. Especially now. 

Exactly what I said in a different thread a few days ago!

 

All of the above!

[Scouse123]

Just now, scubascuba3 said:

It's not about them having access, retiree can get the report, similar to work visa requirements 

It takes quite a while in the UK to get the said document and what do you want people already here on Non 0 visas for many years already to do?

 

Fly back to the UK to get one of these documents once a year?

[mokwit]

2 minutes ago, cjinchiangrai said:

The people that make visa runs 4 times a year to get a new 90 day O and never put up the money.

So that makes them deadbeats? Everyone below your financial level is a "deadbeat"? Take care that they don't up things to the level where you are a "deadbeat", despite your vast wealth. I assume you have no problem with Bt3m in a Thai bank, coz my guess is that is what is coming - or the monthly income requirements/$500k/$250k investment of the LTR visas.

 

I could, but don't want to put $250k or even Bt3m in a Thai bank and some don't want to put Bt400k in a Thai bank.

[mokwit]

4 minutes ago, Scouse123 said:

what do you want people already here on Non 0 visas for many years already to do?

 

Fly back to the UK to get one of these documents once a year?

Probably.

[Parker2100]

6 hours ago, scubascuba3 said:

Forget increasing financial limits that won't help at all, do a criminal record check instead

They do already, don't they.

 

I believe it is on the list of things needed.  Not sure they enforce it though.

 

 

[scubascuba3]

6 minutes ago, Scouse123 said:

It takes quite a while in the UK to get the said document and what do you want people already here on Non 0 visas for many years already to do?

 

Fly back to the UK to get one of these documents once a year?

Only problems from you, can do it online, we don't need to solve all the details here

[mokwit]

17 minutes ago, Scouse123 said:

I think you are right, but the bone of contention was the Thai authorities rewording how they wanted these letters presented which amounted to Embassies basically guaranteeing everything on  behalf of their citizens, which they could not in honesty, as you said 'They didn't and don't have the resources '  and that became the stumbling block.

Yes it was this, the Embassy would effectively be the entity responsible for the veracity of statement under Thai law. Somehow, countries other than US, AUS & UK were prepared/able to do that for their citizens.