EV and parkings

[Confuscious]

Way back, about 15 years ago, I modified my car to run on LPG.
Although everything was done according to the rules, I was told that from now on I was not allowed to park my car in a covered parking space or some public places as LPG tanks could explode.

Fast Forward to 2023 and a vast amount of EV are being parked in shopping Mall's and other public places and they are even offered charging poles.

How can it be that LPG was considered a danger while EV's are burning by the dozen?
Even in the knowledge that when an EV start to burn, it mostly burns out completely because there is not adequate material available to extinguish the fire.

The whole EV brainwashing is waiting for a disaster in a mall somewhere where it starts to burn and ignites a domino effect in the parking lot.

Uneblievable but true.

[wprime]

You're the one who's brainwashed. Pure EVs don't burn anywhere nearly as commonly as normal cars, it's not even close.

[ExpatOilWorker]

11 minutes ago, wprime said:

You're the one who's brainwashed. Pure EVs don't burn anywhere nearly as commonly as normal cars, it's not even close.

The subject is about burning while parking. By far the majority of ICE vehicles catch fire ???? due to collision. 

EV's Achilles heel os that they spontaneously combust while parked, more so while charging. 

I also fear we have some dangerous and possible fatal EV parking lessons ahead of us. Time will tell.

 

[Confuscious]

2 hours ago, ExpatOilWorker said:

I also fear we have some dangerous and possible fatal EV parking lessons ahead of us. Time will tell.

I would like to see an official and reliable comparison between EV and LPG/NGV burned vehicles.

Anyway, LPG burning vehicles were not allowed to park in covered places.

[JBChiangRai]

6 hours ago, Confuscious said:

I would like to see an official and reliable comparison between EV and LPG/NGV burned vehicles.

Anyway, LPG burning vehicles were not allowed to park in covered places.

Those statistics are available for ICE cars (maybe not broken down into fuel type), if you google, you’ll find them, the American government keeps statistics and so do many insurance companies.

 

Generally, ICE cars are 60 times more likely to catch fire than battery EV’s.

 

But you are right, a major EV fire in a multi-storey car park is going to be very bad news. However, they have been around for 10 years, and it’s not been a major issue yet.

Edited August 8, 2023 by JBChiangRai

[BritManToo]

40 minutes ago, JBChiangRai said:

Generally, ICE cars are 60 times more likely to catch fire than battery EV’s.

Crash and burn Vs parked and burn.

How many parked ICE cars have spontaneously combusted?

 

Greens never want to compare like with like, and you will never get a straight answer only deflections and bare face lies.

Edited August 8, 2023 by BritManToo

[JBChiangRai]

21 minutes ago, BritManToo said:

Crash and burn Vs parked and burn.

How many parked ICE cars have spontaneously combusted?

 

Why don't you tell us? Please post the links.

[BritManToo]

5 minutes ago, JBChiangRai said:

Why don't you tell us? Please post the links.

There are no links as such data would conflict with government green propaganda.

But I've owned 2 (or more) ICE vehicles for the past 50 years and not one ever burst into flame while parked in my driveway/garage/carport.

Edited August 8, 2023 by BritManToo

[JBChiangRai]

Just now, BritManToo said:

There are no links as such data would conflict with government green propaganda.

Aha! A Q-Anon guy!

[BKKBike09]

11 hours ago, Confuscious said:

Way back, about 15 years ago, I modified my car to run on LPG.
Although everything was done according to the rules, I was told that from now on I was not allowed to park my car in a covered parking space or some public places as LPG tanks could explode.

Fast Forward to 2023 and a vast amount of EV are being parked in shopping Mall's and other public places and they are even offered charging poles.

You'd really need to compare vehicles modified to run on LPG with vehicles modified to run on batteries for an accurate assessment. LPG is particularly dangerous because it's heavier than air, so it can pool in a confined space rather than disperse.

 

"Everything was done according to the rules" ... never inspires much confidence in Thailand. Think of the annual 'safety inspection' to renew tax for vehicles aged 7 years or more. "Does it start, Somchai?"; "Yes"; "Okay, pass".

 

Here are the stats for car fires per year, in Bangkok only (from an article in Thai quoting chief of Bangkok's Office of Disaster Prevention & Mitigation, who highlighted risk of LPG modifications):

 

2010 - 205

2011 - 200

2012 - 221

2013 - 230

2014 - 221

 

https://d.dailynews.co.th/bangkok/302193/

 

 

[WorriedNoodle]

Its a learning curve.

 

Who remembers all the suki-yaki shops in Bangkok going up in flames in the 90's from gas bottle under the tables and people thinking who could allow this? Then they changed the laws to electric cookers only.

[JBChiangRai]

I have converted 3 vehicles to LPG here for business purposes.

 

By far the most interesting was a Toyota Vigo 3.0 diesel automatic.  The vehicle starts and runs on diesel until about 1,200-1,400 rpm after which it rapidly transitions to pure LPG.

 

As the LPG came in, it sounded like a noisy sewing machine with a massive boost in power, I never dyno'd it but it would beat a Benz away from the lights with a claimed 0-100 of 6s.  The fitters made a mistake, there is a solenoid operated valve, apply power and it allows LPG out the tank, remove power and it isolates the tank.  Probably standard on all LPG conversions.  They wired the solenoid valve directly to the battery so it never shut off with the result that the battery would go flat after a few days if you didn't use it.

 

I converted a new Pajero Sport 2.4 manual that we used for customer collections and over the course of 5 years we saved about 300,000 baht on fuel, we only lost 100k in depreciation factoring in the LPG savings.

[JBChiangRai]

4 minutes ago, WorriedNoodle said:

Its a learning curve.

 

Who remembers all the suki-yaki shops in Bangkok going up in flames in the 90's from gas bottle under the tables and people thinking who could allow this? Then they changed the laws to electric cookers only.

Gas bottles/appliances are still illegal in condos here in Thailand

[Henryford]

Plus the weight of EVs. Many multi story car car parks couldn't support the weight of EVs if they filled all the spaces. But nothing will be done until one collapses.

[JBChiangRai]

Just now, Henryford said:

Plus the weight of EVs. Many multi story car car parks couldn't support the weight of EVs if they filled all the spaces. But nothing will be done until one collapses.

Maybe they will increase the width of the parking spaces so less cars can park and we won't get those annoying dings on the car from careless neighbour parking.

[KhunLA]

12 minutes ago, Henryford said:

Plus the weight of EVs. Many multi story car car parks couldn't support the weight of EVs if they filled all the spaces. But nothing will be done until one collapses.

Thanks for the chuckles.  

 

So older buildings in TH shouldn't allow fat people inside, since built when average weight of Thai adult was 40-50kg, and now many are overweight.

 

You're a funny guy.

 

 

 

 

[Liverpool Lou]

1 hour ago, JBChiangRai said:

Why don't you tell us? Please post the links.

How about you posting your links to the claims you made or is it only others who have to justify their claims?!

[Liverpool Lou]

1 hour ago, JBChiangRai said:

1 hour ago, BritManToo said:

There are no links as such data would conflict with government green propaganda.

Aha! A Q-Anon guy!

Where's your link for that bizarre claim?!

[JBChiangRai]

2 minutes ago, Liverpool Lou said:

How about you posting your links to the claims you made or is it only others who have to justify their claims?!

Which claim have I made and not backed it up with links?

[JBChiangRai]

1 minute ago, Liverpool Lou said:

Where's your link for that bizarre claim?!

That was satire, clearly it went over your head.

[Liverpool Lou]

50 minutes ago, JBChiangRai said:

Gas bottles/appliances are still illegal in condos here in Thailand

Really?  Which section of the Condominium Act states that?  For a poster who asks others for "links" to accompany their comments, I'm surprised you don't comply with your own rules.

[Liverpool Lou]

18 minutes ago, JBChiangRai said:

Which claim have I made and not backed it up with links?

"Generally, ICE cars are 60 times more likely to catch fire than battery EV’s".

 

"Gas bottles/appliances are still illegal in condos here in Thailand"

 

[thaibeachlovers]

1 hour ago, BritManToo said:

There are no links as such data would conflict with government green propaganda.

But I've owned 2 (or more) ICE vehicles for the past 50 years and not one ever burst into flame while parked in my driveway/garage/carport.

I've been around a long time and I've never even read about an ICE spontaneously burning, let alone experienced it.

I don't care if someone wishes to drive an expensive EV that will depreciate rapidly and probably not sell on the second hand market if anywhere near battery replacement time, but what I despise is trying to make everyone drive the things when ICEs are perfectly acceptable transportation, and last for decades.

[marin]

9 hours ago, Confuscious said:

Anyway, LPG burning vehicles were not allowed to park in covered places.

Never heard that before and my wife drove an LPG powered car for 8 years. Nary a warning one. Most of her friends and a lot of people in our village converted as well. Never once heard that, going back nearly 20 years now. 

[thaibeachlovers]

1 hour ago, WorriedNoodle said:

Its a learning curve.

 

Who remembers all the suki-yaki shops in Bangkok going up in flames in the 90's from gas bottle under the tables and people thinking who could allow this? Then they changed the laws to electric cookers only.

Link?

I've eaten in hundreds of restaurants in LOS and they all had bottle gas cookers.

[KhunLA]

Have owned and used plenty of lithium batteries, different chemistries, abused during use & charging, and not 1 has had an oops yet.

 

Now with 3 EVs and better made batteries, and smarter use & charging, I expect me record of no oops to continue.

 

Especially with the car, since using LFP, which I yet to read about any, anywhere, having an oops.

 

Can't say the same about fossil fuel using machines.   Though myself, never had a problem, but I maintain my machines, and keep all those moving parts and fuel lines in good shape.

 

With few exceptions, I suspect most oops to be 'user error'... from experience & IMHO

[JBChiangRai]

1 hour ago, Liverpool Lou said:

Really?  Which section of the Condominium Act states that?  For a poster who asks others for "links" to accompany their comments, I'm surprised you don't comply with your own rules.

I never said it was in the condominium act, actually I think it's in the fire code and part of the inspection to get your certificate, it should be repeated in your condo rules, below is the only link I can find

 

ไขข้อข้องใจ ทำไมคอนโดไทยห้ามใช้เตาแก๊ส? (condonewb.com)

 

 

Edited August 8, 2023 by JBChiangRai

[JBChiangRai]

1 hour ago, Liverpool Lou said:

"Generally, ICE cars are 60 times more likely to catch fire than battery EV’s".

 

"Gas bottles/appliances are still illegal in condos here in Thailand"

 

I have posted links to the 60 times quote, twice here on 2 different threads, I suggest you read those threads properly.

 

Here's some

https://belux.edmo.eu/fact-check-do-electric-cars-catch-fire-more-often-than-combustion-engine-cars/

 

https://belux.edmo.eu/fact-check-do-electric-cars-catch-fire-more-often-than-combustion-engine-cars/

 

https://autofile.co.nz/fire-risk-higher-in-ice-cars-

 

https://autofile.co.nz/fire-risk-higher-in-ice-cars-

Edited August 8, 2023 by JBChiangRai
add links

[wprime]

13 hours ago, ExpatOilWorker said:

The subject is about burning while parking. By far the majority of ICE vehicles catch fire ???? due to collision. 

EV's Achilles heel os that they spontaneously combust while parked, more so while charging. 

I also fear we have some dangerous and possible fatal EV parking lessons ahead of us. Time will tell.

 

Well that's not true, from NFPA data for ICE vehicles:

47% due to mechanical failure or malfunction

21% due to electrical failure or malfunction

7% intentional

6% due to fire exposure

4% due to collision

2% due to smoking

 

I don't think you realise how big the difference is, an ICE vehicle is more likely to burn in the few minutes looking for a car space than an EV is to burn in a hour of charging.

[KhunLA]

14 minutes ago, wprime said:

Well that's not true, from NFPA data for ICE vehicles:

47% due to mechanical failure or malfunction

21% due to electrical failure or malfunction

7% intentional

6% due to fire exposure

4% due to collision

2% due to smoking

 

I don't think you realise how big the difference is, an ICE vehicle is more likely to burn in the few minutes looking for a car space than an EV is to burn in a hour of charging.

Leaves 13% for 'act of GOD' ... not covered by most insurance carriers.