Bangkok governor wants the city to become “international business hub”

[MrJ2U]

It's impossible with draconian laws forbidding most work for "Internationals"  without jumping through hoops. 

[Purdey]

The education standard is very low here compared to Singapore. The article mentions international schools only in recognition of this. The level of English is one of the worst in ASEAN. I can't see foreign investors considering Bangkok as an international city yet. 

[klauskunkel]

Quote

Bangkok governor wants the city to become “international business hub”

you can't always get what you want...

Rolling Stones

[actonion]

Thailand is already  the Hub of Hubs

[Andrew65]

Some years ago an Australian friend , Mark, had been working in Thailand for a Japanese oil & gas company. He said that the company was pulling out of Thailand. One of the main reasons was that when they had to deal with government agencies they had to deal with military men, who didn't have the faintest idea what they themselves, or the company was doing. (This was a company that was investing 10's or 100's of millions in Thailand).

[Cabradelmar]

Stay in your lane BKK/THA. Just be happy to be the world's party and prostitution hub. Business hubs don't work all that well in kingdoms with military dictatorships every 10 years, or in countries with judiciary and police that don't uphold the rule of law, not to mention the rampant corruption brought about by embedded patronage,  hierarchy and protection rackets. 

[kingstonkid]

Before Thailand can become an international hub it needs to resolve

 

Education corruption pollution minimum wage. Stable government 

 

These are things that companies need no matter where they locate

 

Employee rules are easy for big companies if the employees are knowledgeable.

 

Corporation want to know that when negotiating they do not have brown envelopes

 

Minimum wage is huge especially for factories and large offices.  Why do you think china got so big.

 

Stable government so the rules are not changing ever couple of years.

 

[SbuxPlease]

After business success in my home country, I decided to invest in Thailand 6-7 years ago and have started and operated several businesses since in Bangkok. One was a startup that needed top talent, another is a retail shop in a specialized industry, and another (was) an attempt at a BOI company software startup.

 

As an American I'm eligible under the Treaty of Amity to own businesses 100%, however the process for registering for the treaty takes from half a year to more than a year with a lawyer involved, and potentially 100k+ THB if you use an internationally reputable firm. During the lengthy process various DBD officers may request the same set of documents multiple times, which leads you to forward the last email you already forwarded to them with the scanned attachments - again.

 

Once the business is properly registered, normal business operations such as opening bank accounts or getting a credit card terminal still feels like an egregious document and red-tape saturated experience if a foreigner is the sole owner. There is no access to small business operating capital unless the business has a long standing relationship with the bank and plenty of assets. Local traditions such as putting a physical tax stamp on documents that must be signed immaculately on every page will take hours out of the CEOs day - every day. Time that would be much better utilized developing the business model.

 

These experiences are smoother if you have a Thai partner who can handle all these in their own name and/or know which shortcuts are available, so some people (like me!) recommend opening and setting up the company entirely under a trusted Thai person and then transferring it all later.

 

Filing monthly payroll forms, annual and half year tax reporting requirements, withholding tax and VAT reports is either a full time internal job or needs to be outsourced to an accounting firm. Outsourcing may be cheaper and more reliable but you'll still need an internal person to handhold the accounting firm through documenting every transaction. For these regulations alone expect to spend a minimum of $10k USD annually just to keep your company registered and ready for business whether you have a single sale during the year or not.

 

After some time you begin to wonder if your luck (and time) might be better spent with the tax enforcement officers instead of the front office.

 

If you're unlucky and get some employees that can't meet the demands of your growing business (a serious risk), you might find them to be difficult or extraordinarily expensive to replace. As a founder or CEO that's another drain on your capital reserves.

 

I started the BOI company as my second business, and after approved for it I came to realize that while the incentives are nice, the reporting requirements to maintain the company are much higher than for a traditional company. If the startup has not yet found its market, that could mean the only thing gained is more wasted CEO time and baggage holding the company back.

 

In summary, Thailand has a long way to go before any smart money founders are going to label Bangkok as a "start up hub" of any kind.

 

A large international firm that needs a local HQ will hire Deloitte to cut through the tape and get them running and doesn't mind the USD 5-6 figure annual holding costs. If the local staff will be dozens of people or more, it will be easier to spread the various expenses across the team.

 

However, top talent may not necessarily choose Bangkok as the best city in the world to live in because of ... well... I think we all know the difficult parts.

 

[Freddy42OZ]

21 hours ago, Doctor Tom said:

This is laughable.  For this to succeed they will have to loosen so many restrictive laws on employment, investment and ownership.  This will never happen. 

 

It could happen an it's my belief that it will.  There are thousands of Hong Kong based SMEs who could be enticed to move their businesses here, including most if not all of their staff.  All the Thai Gov has to do is say any company with annual turnover of X gets a special business licence (similar to BOI) and can bring in X employees and their families.  It would be a huge boost to the Thai economy. 

The only thing is it won't have a significant benefit to those of us already here that want to run businesses without the current restrictions.  But it would bring in more high quality expats so there would be that benefit for some of us.

[Hanuman2547]

Chadchart can keep on dreaming because it most likely won't happen anytime soon.

[Doctor Tom]

1 hour ago, Freddy42OZ said:

 

It could happen an it's my belief that it will.  There are thousands of Hong Kong based SMEs who could be enticed to move their businesses here, including most if not all of their staff.  All the Thai Gov has to do is say any company with annual turnover of X gets a special business licence (similar to BOI) and can bring in X employees and their families.  It would be a huge boost to the Thai economy. 

The only thing is it won't have a significant benefit to those of us already here that want to run businesses without the current restrictions.  But it would bring in more high quality expats so there would be that benefit for some of us.

I suspect that, depending on their services or products, they will locate to other Countries rather than here, Malaysia comes to mind as does Indonesia, that are much more welcoming to inward investment, special visas etc. 

[FritsSikkink]

19 hours ago, Doctor Tom said:

and I would bet a good deal of money that the company was in a some kind of partnership arrangement with a Thai company and following Thai employment and investment rules.  I say again, it is not legally possible for a wholly owned foreign based company to operate in Thailand without following the BOI restrictions, requirements and criteria.  Thailand is far from an open house to foreign investment and it never will be. This is self evidently true and what I was saying in my first post . 

You lost your bet, back to the bar stool:

Benefits of Thailand’s Board of Investment (BOI) | AW Business Services (awbiz.com)

Other incentives include:

• 100% foreign ownership
• Permission to bring in experts and skilled workers under certain conditions
• Permission to send money overseas
• Protection against future nationalization
• The right to own property in the country

[FritsSikkink]

17 hours ago, Celsius said:

 

 

Your company is doing something illegal.... oops

 

 

How do you think they got their BOI approved work permits?

[josephbloggs]

13 minutes ago, FritsSikkink said:

How do you think they got their BOI approved work permits?

Don't feed the troll.

[impulse]

2 hours ago, SbuxPlease said:

After business success in my home country, I decided to invest in Thailand 6-7 years ago and have started and operated several businesses since in Bangkok. One was a startup that needed top talent, another is a retail shop in a specialized industry, and another (was) an attempt at a BOI company software startup.

 

As an American I'm eligible under the Treaty of Amity to own businesses 100%, however the process for registering for the treaty takes from half a year to more than a year with a lawyer involved, and potentially 100k+ THB if you use an internationally reputable firm. 

 

There is no access to small business operating capital unless the business has a long standing relationship with the bank and plenty of assets. 

 

you'll still need an internal person to handhold the accounting firm through documenting every transaction. For these regulations alone expect to spend a minimum of $10k USD annually just to keep your company registered and ready for business whether you have a single sale during the year or not.

Thanks for your detailed info.  I think a lot of the folks tuned in here don't understand that if needing 100K baht to start, difficult access to small loans, needing a dedicated paperwork shuffler, and spending $10K USD a year to stay in compliance are barriers to entry, their business is probably not the BOI's target demographic. 

 

It's sad for someone who wants to bootstrap.  But BOI isn't for bootstraps, though it can be doable.

On the topic of Thai employees, most of ours (BOI Corporation) were extremely competent.  So we paid them enough that the key people rarely left.  Even if they looked around, they'd find out that our competition wouldn't match what we were paying.  And if one did leave, we always had plenty of candidates hoping for a slot with us.

 

Personally, I think Bangkok could be an International hub with a little tweaking.  Especially when you consider the virtual collapse of some US cities like New York, San Francisco, Portland, etc.   And Europe doesn't seem too far behind with all the immigration strife.

 

My first suggestion would be to turn the BOI and the One Stop's focus from compliance to advocacy.  Instead of forcing the companies to dot the I's and cross the T's, (sending them away if every page in that huge folder is not spot-on) why not have people on staff to actually help them?

Edited September 6, 2023 by impulse

[Scottie12]

Just like the numerous times they've talked about making Phuket the IT centre for Asia.

[Caldera]

Oh look, another hub Bangkok or Thailand wants to become. 

[mokwit]

44 minutes ago, FritsSikkink said:

You lost your bet, back to the bar stool:

Benefits of Thailand’s Board of Investment (BOI) | AW Business Services (awbiz.com)

Other incentives include:

• 100% foreign ownership
• Permission to bring in experts and skilled workers under certain conditions
• Permission to send money overseas
• Protection against future nationalization
• The right to own property in the country

Don't you have to be in a sector Thailand is trying to encourage [Read: Obtain IP] or physically locate where BOI privileges exist or do you just say: "BOI company please" to the Lawyer doing your company formation paperwork to get that 100% ownership? I think you will find it is very restricted.

[FritsSikkink]

2 hours ago, josephbloggs said:

Don't feed the troll.

You are a troll. Learn something about doing business in Thailand first.

[PETERTHEEATER]

4 hours ago, actonion said:

Thailand is already  the Hub of Hubs

The wheel of fortune.

All hubs; no spokes.

And I'm tyred.

[Burma Bill]

On 9/5/2023 at 12:19 PM, webfact said:

Thai capital into a hub for international business.

LOS - lauding over Singapore - NEVER!

[Burma Bill]

On 9/5/2023 at 12:19 PM, webfact said:

Thai capital into a hub for international business.

LOS -  Lauding Over Singapore? NEVER!

[BE88]

4 hours ago, Freddy42OZ said:

 

It could happen an it's my belief that it will.  There are thousands of Hong Kong based SMEs who could be enticed to move their businesses here, including most if not all of their staff.  All the Thai Gov has to do is say any company with annual turnover of X gets a special business licence (similar to BOI) and can bring in X employees and their families.  It would be a huge boost to the Thai economy. 

The only thing is it won't have a significant benefit to those of us already here that want to run businesses without the current restrictions.  But it would bring in more high quality expats so there would be that benefit for some of us.

What would be the incentive for Hong Kong companies to decide to come to Bangkok, in a third world economy ?

 

[BE88]

2 hours ago, impulse said:

 

 

Personally, I think Bangkok could be an International hub with a little tweaking.  Especially when you consider the virtual collapse of some US cities like New York, San Francisco, Portland, etc.   And Europe doesn't seem too far behind with all the immigration strife.

 

 

So according to your criterion if the Western economy collapses, will Bangkok take advantage?

 

Have you smoked your carpet?

 

[impulse]

35 minutes ago, BE88 said:

So according to your criterion if the Western economy collapses, will Bangkok take advantage?

 

Have you smoked your carpet?

I'm not saying Western economy has collapsed, or will collapse.  I'm saying leftist cities are collapsing.  And businesses are fleeing the crime and homelessness in droves.   Seems like a good opportunity.

 

[josephbloggs]

1 hour ago, FritsSikkink said:

You are a troll. Learn something about doing business in Thailand first.

Calm down Frits. Go and read my posts and you will see I run a BOI company and I am posting facts that align with yours. No idea where that random attack came from, it was really quite shocking.

[FritsSikkink]

7 hours ago, josephbloggs said:

Calm down Frits. Go and read my posts and you will see I run a BOI company and I am posting facts that align with yours. No idea where that random attack came from, it was really quite shocking.

Sorry, did misinterpret your post. 

Sometimes I get a bit annoyed with other posters who don't have a clue what they are talking about but think they are intelligent.

[josephbloggs]

4 minutes ago, FritsSikkink said:

Sorry, did misinterpret your post. 

Sometimes I get a bit annoyed with other posters who don't have a clue what they are talking about but think they are intelligent.

Yes, so do I. It really annoys me, especially when I have experience in what they are talking about and they don't.

No worries, mistakes happen. Cheers.

[FritsSikkink]

On 9/5/2023 at 4:21 PM, Doctor Tom said:

and I would bet a good deal of money that the company was in a some kind of partnership arrangement with a Thai company and following Thai employment and investment rules.  I say again, it is not legally possible for a wholly owned foreign based company to operate in Thailand without following the BOI restrictions, requirements and criteria.  Thailand is far from an open house to foreign investment and it never will be. This is self evidently true and what I was saying in my first post . 

Again utter BS

[FritsSikkink]

On 9/6/2023 at 8:16 AM, Purdey said:

 I can't see foreign investors considering Bangkok as an international city yet. 

Maybe you should get out of the bars and / or Nakon Nowhere and visit the Bangkok business areas for a change.