Will govt policy to cut train fares by 50% spark Bangkok renaissance?

[webfact]

 

Ruling party Pheu Thai has promised to honor its election policy by capping Bangkok city train fares at 20 baht.

 

If Transport Minister Suriya Jungrungreangkit gets his way, the fare cap will begin within the next few months – in time for the government to offer the far lower maximum fare as a “New Year gift” to the public.

 

“I think we should soon be able to cap the fare at 20 baht for the 41-kilometer Red Line [Taling Chan-Rangsit] and the 23-km Purple Line [Khlong Bang Phai-Bang Sue] because they are directly under the government,” he explained.

 

As for other city lines, Suriya promised to start negotiating with concessionaires shortly in a bid to fully implement the much-anticipated policy.

 

Full story: Thai PBS 2023-09-16

 

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[Robin]

Another give away.  One day it will have to be paid for.

[Jelli]

The BTS is way too expensive. All fares need to be lowered but any deeper reductions can be targeted to the middle class and down

 

MRT fair value for longer trips

Edited September 16, 2023 by Jelli

[digger70]

1 hour ago, Robin said:

Another give away.  One day it will have to be paid for.

Government can reduce Fares and Excise/Taxes, they make just Other Fees and Licenses,Permits and come up with some more New Taxes for something else.

They don't give away something that they can't Recoup from somewhere.

[Keep Right]

Lowering fares will only make the trains more overcrowded and uncomfortable. I would expect that the quality of this experience to go way down.

[billd766]

1 hour ago, Robin said:

Another give away.  One day it will have to be paid for.

And ALL the taxpayers, especially those living outside of the area of the BTS will have to pay for it, even if they can't/don't use it.

[billd766]

1 hour ago, Jelli said:

The BTS is way too expensive. All fares need to be lowered but any deeper reductions can be targeted to the middle class and down

 

MRT fair value for longer trips

Only if you live in the area served by the BTS/MRT. If you don't live in that area, and most of Thailand does not, why should you have to subsidise those who do live there?

[hotchilli]

3 hours ago, Robin said:

Another give away.  One day it will have to be paid for.

That day can be postponed indefinitely

[kingstonkid]

21 hours ago, Jelli said:

The BTS is way too expensive. All fares need to be lowered but any deeper reductions can be targeted to the middle class and down

 

MRT fair value for longer trips

The fair for BTS is reasonable when you look at the cost and time it would take to do the same trip by bus.

 

Would it be nice if cheaper Yes but then they have to cut back on trains, staff and maintenance.

I would love to see it run later on Friday and Saturday so I can go out and not have to fight for a taxi to get home 

[Gsxrnz]

I wonder what John Galt would have to say about this?

[KhunBENQ]

13 minutes ago, kingstonkid said:

Would it be nice if cheaper Yes but then they have to cut back on trains, staff and maintenance.

But the exact opposite would be necessary. Lower fare, even more pressure to the tiny overcrowded BTS trains.

More trains, more staff!

The capacity of those trains could serve a Disney park rail but not a huge metropolitan mass transport.

It's five years that I experienced BTS.

And that was a mess finalizing in a complete breakdown in the evening due to technical issues.

Doubt that things have improved?

Edited September 17, 2023 by KhunBENQ

[mfd101]

And then there's the quaint link that the article's headline makes between a reduction in train fares and Bangkok's 'renaissance' ...

 

Dreamworld strikes again.

[josephbloggs]

7 hours ago, KhunBENQ said:

But the exact opposite would be necessary. Lower fare, even more pressure to the tiny overcrowded BTS trains.

More trains, more staff!

The capacity of those trains could serve a Disney park rail but not a huge metropolitan mass transport.

It's five years that I experienced BTS.

And that was a mess finalizing in a complete breakdown in the evening due to technical issues.

Doubt that things have improved?

So you used it once five years ago? What was this complete breakdown event? 

The BTS is a superb system, busy at times, not busy at others. Clean, reliable. Gets expensive if you are changing lines but for a single journey it is reasonable. It badly needs s ingle ticketing system and has done for many many years, but generally the service and system is great.

[Bangkok Barry]

34 minutes ago, josephbloggs said:

It badly needs s ingle ticketing system and has done for many many years

Indeed. That should be the priority, not lowering the fare to make it unbearably crowded as the whole of Bangkok overwhelms the system. That in itself will make it cheaper to ride.

[Bangkok Barry]

This is such a typically Thai plan, isn't it. Dream up an idea and announce it, with no stage two thinking about the consequences of possibly millions more being able to use the system with the resulting massive and potentially dangerous overcrowding. Have they surveyed how many more would use it and the consequences and how the system would cope?

 

The system in Bangkok has never been designed to cope with massive crowds. New York and London have similar-sized populations but run eight or 12 carriage trains. The Bangkok set-up just doesn't compare. They either need more trains, more carriages (which the BTS platforms are not designed for, or a new signaling system which allows trains every 90 seconds as London has now. 

[kingstonkid]

14 hours ago, Bangkok Barry said:

This is such a typically Thai plan, isn't it. Dream up an idea and announce it, with no stage two thinking about the consequences of possibly millions more being able to use the system with the resulting massive and potentially dangerous overcrowding. Have they surveyed how many more would use it and the consequences and how the system would cope?

 

The system in Bangkok has never been designed to cope with massive crowds. New York and London have similar-sized populations but run eight or 12 carriage trains. The Bangkok set-up just doesn't compare. They either need more trains, more carriages (which the BTS platforms are not designed for, or a new signaling system which allows trains every 90 seconds as London has now. 

The challenge is that anyone you ask is going to say

 

Lower prices YES

will you use it YES

 

tHINK ABOUT THIS SURVEY

 

Survey of expats walking in Suk near suk 10.

Do you drink beer?

If Thai beer was cheaper than water, would you drink more beer than water?

 

The challenge to a one-ticket system, which I agree is the best, is that the system has to be designed so that a person getting off of the BTS at Saladeang has a means of getting on to the MRT without leaving the terminal.

 

In Toronto, they have one ticket, but the deal is that they get on the bus straight away. 

 

The other catch is that they have to be owned by the same company so that there is no hassle of revenue sharing.

 

Imagine a person using the red line, the blue line and the MRT to go somewhere.  How do the different companies get their fair share of the ticket revenue?

 

Also, there is no concern for the number of people that will lose their jobs due to the lack of need for buses and vans.

 

The other catch is, can you imagine what the platforms would be like? Mor chit on a Saturday is already packed same as SIAM  Can you imagine if they doubled the rider output where would everyone stand, and how long would you have to wait?

 

 

 

[Bangkok Barry]

20 minutes ago, kingstonkid said:

The challenge is that anyone you ask is going to say

 

Lower prices YES

will you use it YES

 

tHINK ABOUT THIS SURVEY

I should have written feasibility study, not survey. My bad.

 

21 minutes ago, kingstonkid said:

The other catch is that they have to be owned by the same company so that there is no hassle of revenue sharing.

That's a consequence of using private companies to run a public service. In my native London, most of the services are under the umbrella of one organisation, whether they be underground trains, commuter lines or buses. Maybe river boats too which are used by commuters - I'm not sure.

 

24 minutes ago, kingstonkid said:

Also, there is no concern for the number of people that will lose their jobs due to the lack of need for buses and vans.

I thought of that after I posted, at least with bus services which already struggle financially.

 

25 minutes ago, kingstonkid said:

The other catch is, can you imagine what the platforms would be like?

That was the main point of my post. I'm sure there was no thought at all given to the consequences of having a 20 baht fare. Just another example of being unable to think something through.

[BenStark]

On 9/16/2023 at 12:36 PM, digger70 said:

They don't give away something that they can't Recoup from somewhere.

Just keep in mind this is a PT run populist government, so not sure if they can think that far

[kingstonkid]

12 minutes ago, BenStark said:

Just keep in mind this is a PT run populist government, so not sure if they can think that far

No, this is a quasi-military government that is now scrambling to find ways to save themselves and make the people happy no matter what.

 

The Pheu Thai are not in power in this government. They gave that up to all the military parties they had to suck up to.  All they need is to upset the BJT or PPRP and they are no longer in power.  

 

The protests will start the coup will be planned and Sretha will have to hand over power to the MFP to stay in power.  

 

As I have stated before 20 baht BTS will work and be widely accepted at the start.  Then people are going to scream when it takes them 2 hours of standing on crowded platforms to get on a BTS train that is overcrowded dirty and behind schedule.  Then the cry will be for more trains but the challenge is that trains cost money and if BTS is already losing money on fares and costs do you think they are going to be willing to buy more cars?

 

The farmers are all happy because there is a moratorium on them paying their loans.  What happens to the banks and lenders that no longer get their money?  What happens when the loans are due and the interest that was accumulated is called.

 

They want to give every kid a tablet.  OK you give kids a toy how long does it last before they get broken?  Or are you going ot say yes you can have a tablet but just as we keep your school books in class so you will not lose them or damage them we are going to keep your tablet as well?  Who pays for a broken tablet? 

 

These are all great promises to the masses.  It is like old Rome where while people were starving the held the gladiator tournaments to keep them excited. 

 

 

[herfiehandbag]

17 hours ago, josephbloggs said:

So you used it once five years ago? What was this complete breakdown event? 

The BTS is a superb system, busy at times, not busy at others. Clean, reliable. Gets expensive if you are changing lines but for a single journey it is reasonable. It badly needs s ingle ticketing system and has done for many many years, but generally the service and system is great.

Stations and sidings built for 8 coach trains ( two 4 car units coupled together).

 

Despite the desperate overcrowding at times, which has been the case for what, the last ten years, I have never seen or heard of an 8 coach train.

 

Incidentally, what happened about the "Airport Link" trains, a few years ago the service frequency was cut because trains were out of service awaiting maintenance, has this been sorted?