Thai gov. to tax (remitted) income from abroad for tax residents starting 2024 - Part I

[Hokeus]

52 minutes ago, RupertIII said:

Last I saw Wise wasn't issuing debit/ATM cards to those living in Thailand, or has that now changed?

Correct, they don’t issue debit cards to accounts having a Thailand address on them. Technically you can live in Thailand and get a Wise debit card as long as the address associated with your Wise account falls within a country where they can issue debit cards. This applies to all EU countries, the UK, AU, NZ, USA, and others. If you have a friend or family member residing in the country where your passport is issued from, and assuming it is a country where Wise can issue debit cards, then you could use that foreign address for your Wise account if you like. Also note that Wise will ship a physical debit card to Thailand as well. 

[Startmeup]

5 hours ago, jaywalker said:

So Thailand joins an Elite Club.

 

The USA and Eritrea are the only countries that tax folks domestically on income earned overseas...Now Thailand.

No, it doesn't matter where you go or for how long you will always have Big Sam knocking on your door. If you leave/cut ties with Thailand as a tax resident (as a non US person) and stay over half the year in another jurisdiction you will be deemed a tax resident in the new jurisdiction and have no liability to Thai tax authorities. 

[jonclark]

Oh right..I'm a tax resident....I always thought I was a guest in Thailand. So do I have resident status now lol. 

[anchadian]

Lawaron Saengsanit, the Director of the Revenue Department, said a focus group hearing will be conducted to discuss the proposal to tax all income earned abroad by tax residents in Thailand.

 

The focus group will include investors, taxpayers, and relevant agencies, who will provide explanations about the proposed change and listen to concerns regarding the measure. This change is expected to be implemented on January 1, 2024.

 

Lawaron said this move aligns with international standards, and it is common for both domestic and international investors with similar income to be subject to similar taxation.

 

Lawaron assured that there will be no double taxation due to the Double Tax Agreement. More details about the measures will be released prior to the commencement of the new tax policy.

 

https://twitter.com/ThaiEnquirer/status/1703719202769756629

 

[Metapod]

17 hours ago, anchadian said:

Lawaron Saengsanit, the Director of the Revenue Department, said a focus group hearing will be conducted to discuss the proposal to tax all income earned abroad by tax residents in Thailand.

 

The focus group will include investors, taxpayers, and relevant agencies, who will provide explanations about the proposed change and listen to concerns regarding the measure. This change is expected to be implemented on January 1, 2024.

 

Lawaron said this move aligns with international standards, and it is common for both domestic and international investors with similar income to be subject to similar taxation.

 

Lawaron assured that there will be no double taxation due to the Double Tax Agreement. More details about the measures will be released prior to the commencement of the new tax policy.

 

https://twitter.com/ThaiEnquirer/status/1703719202769756629

 

Thailand is going to lose A LOT of wealthy expats over this change.

[BE88]

4 hours ago, hotchilli said:

If they insist on taxing pensions I think a lot of retirees will be changing locations.

Don't forget that there is also an increase in deposits bank planned as Big Joke declared to the press.

We have happy days ahead.

[adrin]

5 hours ago, Conquerbrqvilok said:

Is it like this Thailand thanks us for bringing money and helping their bankrupt economy?? I was on a mission during covid 2019-2021 and opened an account it an IBAN is also a multicurrency account after 6 months I checked my account as I was receiving money from Italy i found they added 22% interest on my principal amount, simply I earned 22% of what o received without doing nothing

This country become disgusting and shameful, they barely think once a year, and once they think they vomit ideas that make you sick

 

bankrupt economy? less debt than most nations, solid growth etc

[BE88]

4 hours ago, dannyb123 said:

Instantly reconsidering the elite visa I applied for last week. Easier to stay under the 180 days and split the remaining 6 months between Bali and home.

A tourist visa that will perhaps increase to 6 months for all nationality will cost you less.

[freeworld]

1 hour ago, Foxx said:

It's a bit more complex than there being a tax agreement in place.  The UK Double Tax Agreement (DTA) does not cover state or pension income, so even now it would be possible for someone to pay tax on their pension both in the UK and Thailand with no relief.  Of course, the UK DTA does cover government pensions - pensions paid to former civil servants and the like.  Funny that the civil servants cover themselves, but are perfectly happy to screw the little people.

Usually those working tirelessly in govt, both national and local, who are serving the people, are praised by "Thanking them for their service"

Edited September 18, 2023 by freeworld

[shortstop2]

2 hours ago, Thorgal said:

3. Your monthly pension in Thailand can be seen as "world income" if you pay it directly from your pension fund to Thailand. In that case you will have to pay income tax in Thailand based on your pension brought into Thailand.

4. If your pension has been first paid on your private overseas bank account, then it won't be considered as "world income" and not be subjected to Thai income tax.

 

Like some Americans my Social Security (government program) income is paid directly to Bangkok Bank.  Wonder if this will be taxed?

 

Perhaps better if I have my Social Security paid into an USA bank account?

[ukrules]

19 minutes ago, anchadian said:

to discuss the proposal to tax all income

So it's just a proposal now......

[DavidLangdown]

8 hours ago, fondue zoo said:

Sooo, how will the Thai rich get around this?

Oh for goodness sake !  they will be excused of course.

[Gknrd]

My guess it will play out like here in Colombia. If here for over a certain amount of time you pay tax period. That includes any pension.  And the tax rates are much more than in the US. Most guys here with assets stay the minimum time allowed then either move to another country until the clock resets or they hire a tax attorney to do their taxes. 

Basically it has stopped all wealthy or even anyone with a decent retirement income to consider retiring here full time.

 

If Thailand cracks down on it, and I believe they will. They will only allow you to have a retirement extension with a proof of tax filing in your home country. Thailand is set up for it now. No expat will escape it. Over here in Colombia they give permanent residence and you don't have to go to immigration again. But, they require you to submit a W-2 or what ever each year. Even if you don't file because you don't make enough to file in your home country. It is required that you now have to file and show proof of income.

 

The problem for you guys in Thailand is that you have to go in for a yearly extension. So there will be no escaping it. And no way to just wait until you are flagged for not filing a tax return like here in Colombia. Here it is under funded and many slip threw. In Thailand it is a done deal with the yearly extension. 

 

Basically you guys are scre$ed.

Edited September 18, 2023 by Gknrd

[Big D]

The larger impact could be a drastic reduction of foreign retirees locating in Thailand. The average Thai makes 10,000 to 12,000 THB, the average western retiree makes around 80,000THB. Which begs the question whose stimulating the local economy more?

Business leaders like to say investors are job creaters, however, nothing could be further from the truth. I've created 3 or 4 companies, but I've never actually created one single job. It was in fact my customers who created all the jobs.

Thailand would be wise to leave all these expats who are spending their money as consumers alone, and allow them to continue to create jobs for local Thai people.

 

Looks like the classic case of cutting one's nose off to spite their own face.

[AseanNowUser]

3 hours ago, Thaindrew said:

The Thailand Elite Visa is listed as exempt from Tax on the IRS website

Source?

[In the jungle]

7 minutes ago, Gknrd said:

My guess it will play out like here in Colombia. If here for over a certain amount of time you pay tax period. That includes any pension.  And the tax rates are much more than in the US. Most guys here with assets stay the minimum time allowed then either move to another country until the clock resets or they hire a tax attorney to do their taxes. 

Basically it has stopped all wealthy or even anyone with a decent retirement income to consider retiring here full time.

Wouldn't that be "stay the maximum time allowed"?

[BE88]

17 hours ago, Tom H said:

“Also exempt will be those who have been taxed in a foreign country that has a standing Double Tax Agreement with Thailand.”

 

Just understand this sentence and dont fall in a panic mode.

 

 

And those who are not taxed in the foreign country because they are exempt like many of us in retirement, can be taxed in Thailand in accordance with what is written ?

This is not a way to panic but to read carefully what is written.

[Jingthing]

12 minutes ago, Gknrd said:

My guess it will play out like here in Colombia. If here for over a certain amount of time you pay tax period. That includes any pension.  And the tax rates are much more than in the US. Most guys here with assets stay the minimum time allowed then either move to another country until the clock resets or they hire a tax attorney to do their taxes. 

Basically it has stopped all wealthy or even anyone with a decent retirement income to consider retiring here full time.

Foreign pension income is exempt in Colombia. If your total worldwide income is above a set level you are required to file there but then you deduct all of the pension income. 

That said Colombia is complicated and it's necessary to get expert advice to analyze your specific situation. Most retired expats indeed most Colombians owe no tax. But yes the very wealthy need to take extra care and may choose not to live there long enough to be a tax resident there.

Edited September 18, 2023 by Jingthing

[StayinThailand2much]

8 hours ago, lordgrinz said:

It will be interesting to see how this plays out, I guess I could just stop sending anything over here, which is fine with me.

I don't think the banks are supposed to deduct tax from incoming funds. That being said, this is Thailand. Will be interesting...

[NoDisplayName]

45 minutes ago, jonclark said:

Oh right..I'm a tax resident....I always thought I was a guest in Thailand. So do I have resident status now lol. 

No, not for you.

But your money, shirley, is most welcome.

[Pouatchee]

         no taxation without representation

if they tax me they should make it easier for me to get citizenship

[RupertIII]

49 minutes ago, anchadian said:

Lawaron said this move aligns with international standards, and it is common for both domestic and international investors with similar income to be subject to similar taxation.

I have to ask myself if Thai standards will then align with international standards when I am forced to pay up to 20x the normal rate for entry into national parks and many non-government parks etc., increased charges at both Government and private hospitals, having to pay several thousands of GBP each year for medical insurance because I am barred from being involved in the Thai Government social services system, even being quoted nearly double the price at Fortune IT centre for a laptop battery that my wife subsequently went on her own to purchase on my behalf, etc., etc,!

 

Edited September 18, 2023 by RupertIII

[OneZero]

Those folks whose home country has a DTA with Thailand are exempt. 

Quote

The program will begin January 1, 2024 and apply only to tax residents in Thailand meaning tourists and short term workers will be exempt. Also exempt will be those who have been taxed in a foreign country that has a standing Double Tax Agreement with Thailand.

The list of countries that Thailand has a DTA with are at below Thai Revenue Dept webpage.

https://www.rd.go.th/english/766.html

[StayinThailand2much]

7 hours ago, gearbox said:

"The program will begin January 1, 2024 and apply only to tax residents in Thailand meaning tourists and short term workers will be exempt (...)

Again, residents who don't work here, but are expats with funds deriving from abroad are not mentioned, which is always a red flag in Thailand, as, basically, every bureaucrat can make up rules.

[Sheryl]

1 hour ago, Startmeup said:

Not quite true. It depends on the rates in your home country and the rates in Thailand. If you pay rates in your home country equal to or greater than what the rates are in Thailand then you won't be taxed. If you pay less tax then Thai tax dept will take the difference so it meets Thai taxation rates. Maybe there will be exemption for taxations on government pensions, I dont know.

There is a complete exemption on Social Security and annnuities for US citizens, this is specified in the Tax treaty between US and Thailand.

 

I would suggest everyone review the relevant tax agreement between their own country and Thailand. 

 

 

[shortstop2]

4 minutes ago, OneZero said:

Those folks whose home country has a DTA with Thailand are exempt. 

 

Also exempt will be those who have been taxed in a foreign country that has a standing Double Tax Agreement with Thailand.

The USA has a DTA with Thailand.  However, I have arranged my finances so that I am in a 0% tax bracket.  So my income, Social Security, Traditional IRA withdrawals and Roth IRA withdrawals could be taxed in Thailand?

[StayinThailand2much]

7 hours ago, Sheryl said:

Also exempt will be those who have been taxed in a foreign country that has a standing Double Tax Agreement with Thailand.

Knowing Thai bureaucracy, one may have to prove it. Say, you made x£/€/$ 20 years ago, then had it in a savings account till now, maybe they will ask you to prove that it was taxed 20 years ago in your home country. - I'm not suggesting that it will be like that, but who knows...

Edited September 18, 2023 by StayinThailand2much

[Gknrd]

31 minutes ago, Jingthing said:

Foreign pension income is exempt in Colombia. If your total worldwide income is above a set level you are required to file there but then you deduct all of the pension income. 

That said Colombia is complicated and it's necessary to get expert advice to analyze your specific situation. Most retired expats indeed most Colombians owe no tax. But yes the very wealthy need to take extra care and may choose not to live there long enough to be a tax resident there.

Yes it is very complicated and even the tax attorneys cannot figure it out in many cases. But, you don't need to be extremely wealthy. Quite the contrary. My dealings with the tax guys , even with my pittance has put me off from retiring here full time.. It is very dangerous. Not dangerous , but costly.

You guys will need to wait and see how this plays out. Hopefully they will spare most of the retiree's?  

Edited September 18, 2023 by Gknrd

[daejung]

1 hour ago, Startmeup said:

Not quite true. It depends on the rates in your home country and the rates in Thailand. If you pay rates in your home country equal to or greater than what the rates are in Thailand then you won't be taxed. If you pay less tax then Thai tax dept will take the difference so it meets Thai taxation rates. Maybe there will be exemption for taxations on government pensions, I dont know.

Not quite true. Depends upon each tax convention

[vibration]

I am a British Citizen retired married to a Thai and staying in Thailand on a Thai Elite 5 Year PE Visa and this suits my needs very well.

 

I receive pensions from the UK that are lower than the UK Tax Free threshold and these are paid into my bank in Norway as I worked there for 32 years.

 

I receive Norwegian State pension and private pensions in Norway and these are taxable in Norway and also paid into my bank in Norway.

 

I send money from my bank account in Norway to Thailand when needed.

 

I am tax resident in Norway even though I do not have property there (my daughters have property and the tax office states that I can stay there) and I am also tax resident in Thailand because I stay here most of the year.

 

The Double Taxation Agreement between Thailand and Norway helps my situation significantly as all money sent to Thailand from Norway in a tax year can be used to offset the tax I paid in Norway and I normally get all tax paid in Norway paid back in full and evreything is legal.

 

As I am over 65 I am also eligible to an extra 190 000 THB deduction on my pension income in Thailand and the actual tax paid in Thailand depending on how much I transfer in a tax year has varied to date between 8000 and 25000 THB which I believe is very reasonable.

 

I always use a Norwegian Tax Lawyer Company in Thailand to write a letter to the Norwegian Tax Office for this and they also update my Norwegian Tax Return, I do the rest myself including Thai Tax Return, Thai Certificate of Income Tax Paid and Thai Tax Office Certificate of Residence.

 

I am posting this in case this may help others in a similar situation to myself.

 

 

 

 

Edited September 18, 2023 by vibration