Thai gov. to tax (remitted) income from abroad for tax residents starting 2024 - Part I

[ukrules]

10 hours ago, StayinThailand2much said:

2024 already; waiting for reports of members who had transfers to Thailand this year...

lol, I sent a wire on Thursday 28th December, 2023 and it hasn't arrived yet.

 

I'll bet the slackers at my bank in the UK were mostly on holiday between Christmas and New Year and didn't process it. I sent quite a bit more than normal, about 250k Baht and sometimes they send it to their compliance department for whatever reason even though the amounts are relatively low - and I'll bet that's the big office with just one or two staff in there between Christmas and New Year.

 

Maybe I get it Jan 2.

[ukrules]

3 hours ago, stat said:

There will be no withholding tax deducted in the coming months as a change like this will take years to implement on bank IT Level, not to mention Thai RD would need to confirm that Joe Sixpack is now a thai tax resident at excat the moment he has spend 180 days in Thailand.

 

A good point, none of us are tax resident here for this year until about the beginning of July.

[Jingthing]

4 hours ago, ukrules said:

lol, I sent a wire on Thursday 28th December, 2023 and it hasn't arrived yet.

 

I'll bet the slackers at my bank in the UK were mostly on holiday between Christmas and New Year and didn't process it. I sent quite a bit more than normal, about 250k Baht and sometimes they send it to their compliance department for whatever reason even though the amounts are relatively low - and I'll bet that's the big office with just one or two staff in there between Christmas and New Year.

 

Maybe I get it Jan 2.

Friday was a bank holiday in Thailand so that probably wouldn't have made it here last year regardless.

[Ralf001]

4 hours ago, ukrules said:

lol, I sent a wire on Thursday 28th December, 2023 and it hasn't arrived yet.

 

I'll bet the slackers at my bank in the UK were mostly on holiday between Christmas and New Year and didn't process it. I sent quite a bit more than normal, about 250k Baht and sometimes they send it to their compliance department for whatever reason even though the amounts are relatively low - and I'll bet that's the big office with just one or two staff in there between Christmas and New Year.

 

Maybe I get it Jan 2.

Friday 29 - Bank holiday in Thailand.

Monday 01 - Bank holiday in Thailand.

Tuesday 02 - Bank holiday in Thailand.

 

I reckon Wednesday 03 earliest.

[Foxx]

6 minutes ago, Ralf001 said:

Tuesday 02 - Bank holiday in Thailand.

 

No it's not.  See https://www.bot.or.th/en/financial-institutions-holiday.html

[Ralf001]

6 minutes ago, Foxx said:

 

No it's not.  See https://www.bot.or.th/en/financial-institutions-holiday.html

 

 

Yeah cool, I see it was cancelled.

 

 

Luckily (for me) my employer kept it on the work calendar then !

Edited January 1 by Ralf001

[tomkenet]

8 hours ago, stat said:

Nonsense, sorry mate. That is just the deadline for the tax calendar year. Starting 1 Jan 2024 you are liable to pay tax on your remittance without any substantial guidance on how profit of this remitance will be calculated (Lifo or Fifo for example etc). I know TiT but this time there are 6-7 digit USD taxes on the horizon for some people.

2024 will be just like previous years.

Last years earnings will not be taxable when remitted.

 

2025 will be the first year with the new rules. Last year earnings will be taxable when remitted.

[jacko45k]

20 hours ago, Karma80 said:

 

Then, spring the "details" on taxpayers retrospectively. Amazing Thailand.

Always the way here, sometimes withers on the vine too......

[Ralf001]

8 hours ago, stat said:

Nonsense, sorry mate. That is just the deadline for the tax calendar year. Starting 1 Jan 2024 you are liable to pay tax on your remittance without any substantial guidance on how profit of this remitance will be calculated (Lifo or Fifo for example etc). I know TiT but this time there are 6-7 digit USD taxes on the horizon for some people.

 

Would you not have to be in country for 180 days before any requirement for tax to be payable ?

With a Mar 03/25 deadline for the tax filing.

Edited January 1 by Ralf001

[Mike Lister]

9 hours ago, stat said:

The directive is already "active". Usually law or directives are defined and explained before coming into effect. I also suspect thai RD may just look at your lifestyle and demand proof of how those monies came to Thailand to pay for your rental condo etc...

 

You can suspect all you want but the likelihood is almost non-existent because there is no basis for launching an enquiry into the Mr Average Joe in Pattaya who pays 20k Baht a month in rent, eats street food,  buys his beer from 7/11 and pays 350 baht for a restaurant meal. IF however, Mr Above Average Joe in Pattaya pays 120k a  month for his Penthouse, drives a McLaren and is always covered in expensive bling, the likelihood increases.

 

9 hours ago, stat said:

Nonsense, sorry mate. That is just the deadline for the tax calendar year. Starting 1 Jan 2024 you are liable to pay tax on your remittance without any substantial guidance on how profit of this remitance will be calculated (Lifo or Fifo for example etc). I know TiT but this time there are 6-7 digit USD taxes on the horizon for some people.

 

Nonsense, again! 

 

Liability to pay tax on your remittance does not exist until you have been shown to be tax resident for at least 180 days hence the first important date is not until late June 2024. Thereafter the liability is not due and payable until the tax return has been filed, because deductions and exclusions may outweigh any potential tax on the remittance. The fist potential liability date is not until 1 January 2025, at the earliest.

[The Cyclist]

8 hours ago, ukrules said:

 

A good point, none of us are tax resident here for this year until about the beginning of July.

 

3 hours ago, Ralf001 said:

 

Would you not have to be in country for 180 days before any requirement for tax to be payable ?

With a Mar 03/25 deadline for the tax filing.

 

2 hours ago, Mike Lister said:

Liability to pay tax on your remittance does not exist until you have been shown to be tax resident for at least 180 days

 

Reposted these 3 quotes.

 

By reading them in quick succession, for some it might actually sink in.

 

Then again, I have my doubts.

[Mike Lister]

11 hours ago, stat said:

There will be no withholding tax deducted in the coming months as a change like this will take years to implement on bank IT Level, not to mention Thai RD would need to confirm that Joe Sixpack is now a thai tax resident at excat the moment he has spend 180 days in Thailand.

A rational person with any amount of actual business experience would not even consider the concept that the RD would calculate days and then inform banks in real time that a threshold had been reached and that tax was to be withheld. That said, changes to Bank IT system to with hold tax at source would be a simple matter that could be done in months, not years. Income tax is conducted on the basis of the honor system in most countries, except where deductions of tax at source make it convenient and easy for all parties. Income tax filing and preparation is rearwards looking, albeit the timeframe involved is sometimes reduced from one whole tax year to twice per tax year or six month segments, in the case of the self employed.

[whiteman]

Got my big lump sum in on the 23rd Dec Happy Days

[Presnock]

On 12/29/2023 at 12:07 PM, quake said:

I'm sure  the RD will keep us all informed,  come 1st of Jan 2024. 

 

 

 

[Presnock]

Amazing 555!  Having read posts about this same taxation of all remittances by other ASEAN countries, those that printed their note indicate that those reporting will not tax pensions of ex-pats.  Thailand of course, based on those that have actually sat in some of the officials meeting on the program indicate that not all Thai officials agree with the new interpretation.  No reasons have been forthcoming either, just like nothing new whatsoever from the Thai government tax department.  But, I agree that no monies should be taxed yet as it will only apply IF one is here more than 179 days in 2024 as that is the beginning of this new interpretation of an old tax law. To see 192 pages of the same thing every day indicating that we know no more than we did in September when it was announced.  There have been seminars and meetings regularly but still no more info is available than before.  Yes, some of us have read the DTA between our country and Thailand so we have an idea of should or should not be the final word.  Hopefully, the tax officials are aware of the 192 pages too and will put out at least some update on their thinking.  If they want more foreigners to come here, buy condos, etc then they should put something out soon as I think folks will pass on this country to spend their money.  Just saying...been here in total over 30 years and while some things have change physically/sceneric, thinking doesn't  seem to be progressing much.  My opinion anyway.  HAPPY NEW YEAR to all!

[tomkenet]

30 minutes ago, whiteman said:

Got my big lump sum in on the 23rd Dec Happy Days

Hope you earned this before 2023.

If earned in 2023 it is taxable.

 

If earned in 2023 and remitted in 2024 it would be tax-free, just like it has always been when remitted the year after earned.

 

This however changes for money earned in 2024.

 

[Enzian]

My son put in an order for a medium sized transfer from Chase US either late 26 or early 27 west coast time, and Chase emailed me that it had been sent at 6:11 PM Bangkok time on Wed. 27. My Thai bank informed me at 5:21 PM the next day, 23 hours later, that they had it. I will not need to make another wire transfer until 8 to 10 months from now, and I will have records to show the money came from the US Social Security Administration. Best I can do, maybe we will know more by then.

Edit: Looking at the post directly above, I understand this has been the case, but obviously a lot of people like me are assuming '23 earnings will be grandfathered in effect, or the practice of non-enforcement will continue. Luckily in my case I'm not married, no kids here, on a month to month lease, and have a lot of other reasons that a relocation to California would make sense at this point. Happy New Year everyone.

Edited January 2 by Enzian

[Mike Lister]

21 minutes ago, tomkenet said:

Hope you earned this before 2023.

If earned in 2023 it is taxable.

 

If earned in 2023 and remitted in 2024 it would be tax-free, just like it has always been when remitted the year after earned.

 

This however changes for money earned in 2024.

 

Incorrect, income earned prior to 2024 is specifically excluded:

 

https://sherrings.com/foreign-source-income-personal-tax-thailand.html

[TheAppletons]

13 minutes ago, Enzian said:

a relocation to California would make sense at this point. 

 

  You were doing so well up until then.  :-D

[jayboy]

6 minutes ago, Mike Lister said:

Incorrect, income earned prior to 2024 is specifically excluded:

 

https://sherrings.com/foreign-source-income-personal-tax-thailand.html

You are aware presumably that this small tax consultancy firm - which I have no reason to believe isn't competent - have at this moment no more knowledge of how these developments will pan out in practice than any well informed layman?

[Mike Lister]

2 minutes ago, jayboy said:

You are aware presumably that this small tax consultancy firm - which I have no reason to believe isn't competent - have at this moment no more knowledge of how these developments will pan out in practice than any well informed layman?

Sherrings, in their link, merely quotes what others have not read or understood, in that respect they are far better equipped than most well informed laymen, or at least better than many AN posters ! They paraphrase the RD announcement, Por 162, dated 20 November 2023, which says that income derived prior to 1 January 2024 is specifically excluded.  The link has been supplied above, all you have to do is click on it and read it.

[tomkenet]

15 minutes ago, Mike Lister said:

Incorrect, income earned prior to 2024 is specifically excluded

Not if earned and remitted in 2023 which is the case here.

 

This has always been the rule 

[Mike Lister]

Just now, tomkenet said:

Not if earned and remitted in 2023 which is the case here.

 

This has always been the rule 

Actually no, it has not always been the rule, the new rule specifically sets out to change that aspect. Previously, income earned and remitted in the year it was earned, was taxable, if earned in a an earlier year it was not.

[tomkenet]

7 minutes ago, Mike Lister said:

Actually no, it has not always been the rule, the new rule specifically sets out to change that aspect. Previously, income earned and remitted in the year it was earned, was taxable, if earned in a an earlier year it was not.

So you think money earned and remitted in 2023 is taxfree?

It's not

[Mike Lister]

Why so confused, that change in the year income was earned and remitted is the entire basis of the new RD rule, it's fundamental to all these discussions.

[Mike Lister]

1 minute ago, tomkenet said:

So you think money earned and remitted in 2023 is taxfree?

It's not

Read the Sherrings link and get back to us..

[Mike Lister]

20 minutes ago, tomkenet said:

Not if earned and remitted in 2023 which is the case here.

 

This has always been the rule 

 

9 minutes ago, tomkenet said:

So you think money earned and remitted in 2023 is taxfree?

It's not

Apologies, you are correct, I got my wires crossed as a result of a separate exchange. Income remitted in 2023 that was earned in 2023 is still taxable, if earned previously it was not.

[FritsSikkink]

10 hours ago, ukrules said:

 

A good point, none of us are tax resident here for this year until about the beginning of July.

People who work here are already paying tax every month. As I also get money from my home country, I now have to fill in a form, get the tax department here to fill in their part that I am a tax resident, so I won't get tax deducted from the money coming from the home country anymore.

Edited January 2 by FritsSikkink

[BE88]

 

Now I am waiting for an answer if pensions for expats will be taxed or not in 2024, since this must be declared in 2015 there is still a whole year to wait for the news so we will be busy for the next........ 365 days.

[jayboy]

1 hour ago, Mike Lister said:

in that respect they are far better equipped than most well informed laymen

 

No they really aren't.The benchmark is that of a well informed layman, not of some frazzled pensioner.Anybody with a working brain can understand the RD's pronouncements on this matter.

 

I'm not just kicking up the sand here.We will have to await the practical aspects over the next year or so, what to be included in filings or even whether to file at all etc.At the moment we are in the realm of speculation.

 

When all is clear specialist firms will certainly have a role.