Thai gov. to tax (remitted) income from abroad for tax residents starting 2024 - Part I

[Neeranam]

2 hours ago, John Drake said:

 

From what I can tell, for peons like me, there isn't going to be much impact, if any. But the guys and gals with income levels that meet, for example, the Long Term Visa or Elite Visa, those people are going to get taken to the cleaners.

How so? Can't they choose to pay tax in Thailand rather than another country? They won't have to pay it twice.

[Ben Zioner]

On 12/14/2023 at 6:18 PM, Mike Teavee said:

Apologies, I know better than to post links to Bangkok Post but hadn't realised that the others weren't allowed. 

 

Hopefully it's ok to suggest people Google "Myths about Thai expats and those income tax changes starting very soon" as it was an interesting article. 

 

Yeah, read it before, but those reassuring comments aren't substantiated either..

[ukrules]

1 hour ago, Neeranam said:

I thought the whole/only point of the change was to tax worldwide income. 

 

The change that they're attempting right now is to tax remitted income from around the world.

 

They have stated that they want to tax it even if it's not remitted to Thailand at some point in the future (an amended law) - that's when the big problems will begin.

 

We can all earn hundreds of thousands of dollars a year and keep it outside Thailand far away from the tax system if we want even with the new rules but if they do this next step which requires full parliamentary approval then it's a whole different world if you make plenty outside Thailand and don't remit it.

[Ben Zioner]

2 hours ago, Mike Teavee said:

Put simply I'll do 6 months outside of Thailand when I remit funds to last me the next 3 years... I appreciate not everybody has the flexibility to do this but I'm the kind of guy who will travel at the opening of an envelope... 

That's exactly my thinking. I have LTR but I have started moving my savings around so that I don't get caught with my pants down if they changed the rules that protect us now. Only, I am not targeting zero tax, I'll be ok to stay just under 5% [instead of 25%] of my total income. Doing thatI'd have to spend 6 months out of Thailand in 2028.

 

But LTR is still there.

[lordgrinz]

Currently, my wife declares me on her taxes, and uses my Pink ID as the TIN. So as far as filing taxes, I assume I am already doing that, but like I said earlier, I will refrain from sending any money here in 2024, and wait and see what happens to others first. With any luck, they will drop the whole fiasco before I send any money money over after 2024.

[lordgrinz]

2 hours ago, ukrules said:

 

The change that they're attempting right now is to tax remitted income from around the world.

 

They have stated that they want to tax it even if it's not remitted to Thailand at some point in the future (an amended law) - that's when the big problems will begin.

 

We can all earn hundreds of thousands of dollars a year and keep it outside Thailand far away from the tax system if we want even with the new rules but if they do this next step which requires full parliamentary approval then it's a whole different world if you make plenty outside Thailand and don't remit it.

 Oh sure make a statement like that after I open a bottle of Shiraz, I could now end up drinking the whole bottle, if my wife complains tomorrow....its your fault :-P

[Danderman123]

5 hours ago, Neeranam said:

I thought the whole/only point of the change was to tax worldwide income. 

That's what I thought, since that was the original concept.

 

But now, the concept is to only tax money transferred into Thailand by tax residents.

[Danderman123]

unanswered question:

 

Will the RD monitor cash withdrawals from ATMs via foreign bank cards and view those transactions as transfers into Thailand? How would RD know which Farang got the money?

 

Will RD monitor currency exchange transactions?

 

Will all Farangs residing in Thailand for more than 179 days be required to complete a tax form, even if RD has detected no foreign income?

[UKresonant]

1 hour ago, Danderman123 said:

Will the RD monitor cash withdrawals from ATMs via foreign bank cards and view those transactions as transfers into Thailand? How would RD know which Farang got the money?

 

Only above a certain threshold, or if you become a focus of attention I think. If you do not have obvious method of legitimate funds and they start digging. 

How would they even know if the person was a Tax Resident. That data load would be substantial!

Yes your non resident visitor could be withdrawing the money from the ATM..

 

1 hour ago, Danderman123 said:

Will RD monitor currency exchange transactions?

 

When you exchange money at a booth they take a copy of your passport as required by the Bank of Thailand regs. So in theory they could have the data field with your passport number, but don't know what level the company needs to report at, I would be thinking not at that detailed level currently?

 

1 hour ago, Danderman123 said:

Will all Farangs residing in Thailand for more than 179 days be required to complete a tax form, even if RD has detected no foreign income?

 

You have to fill one out over a certain threshold, as it has always been in recent years, If you have  obvious substantial amounts to report maybe better doing one for your own piece of mind (or keep the records of zero tax liability)

They want to discuss and assess your Tax return that was your duty to file .

 

Recent unquote-able article suggested not to all dash down the RD office. seems they may make things clearer, and they will be generally be after big fish.

 

Think they are more likely to detect unexplained wealth, like HiSo spending level with nothing plausible declared, like if it all was drawn on ATM cards. Or if that Thai official cannot explain their new Porsche purchase. 

[Presnock]

Wold be wise to check your country's DTA status with thailand as that is where one ould find out what will be taxed.  Fm the seminar I listened to, the Thai side wishes to taX ALL income be it earned or not and they will supposedly be exchanging data with one's native country as well for ALL income reporting.  

[Presnock]

9 hours ago, Neeranam said:

How so? Can't they choose to pay tax in Thailand rather than another country? They won't have to pay it twice.

Check out your country's DTA with Thailand for what they could charge as payble in Thailand

[Presnock]

2 hours ago, UKresonant said:

 

Only above a certain threshold, or if you become a focus of attention I think. If you do not have obvious method of legitimate funds and they start digging. 

How would they even know if the person was a Tax Resident. That data load would be substantial!

Yes your non resident visitor could be withdrawing the money from the ATM..

 

 

When you exchange money at a booth they take a copy of your passport as required by the Bank of Thailand regs. So in theory they could have the data field with your passport number, but don't know what level the company needs to report at, I would be thinking not at that detailed level currently?

 

 

You have to fill one out over a certain threshold, as it has always been in recent years, If you have  obvious substantial amounts to report maybe better doing one for your own piece of mind (or keep the records of zero tax liability)

They want to discuss and assess your Tax return that was your duty to file .

 

Recent unquote-able article suggested not to all dash down the RD office. seems they may make things clearer, and they will be generally be after big fish.

 

Think they are more likely to detect unexplained wealth, like HiSo spending level with nothing plausible declared, like if it all was drawn on ATM cards. Or if that Thai official cannot explain their new Porsche purchase. 

Seminar I listened too said that they were checking out what to do about credit card use and ATM withdrawals too.  That they are looking at all income earned for the year whether it is within THailand or not as long as you are a resident in their country and whether or not you sent it all into Thailand that year or kept part of it in your home country.  Until the final version is out the final version will not be complete

[jerrymahoney]

4 hours ago, Danderman123 said:

Will all Farangs residing in Thailand for more than 179 days be required to complete a tax form, even if RD has detected no foreign income?

How do you show funds then for an extension of stay?

[Danderman123]

26 minutes ago, jerrymahoney said:

How do you show funds then for an extension of stay?

Presumably you have cash in the bank deposited prior to January 1, 2024.

[Danderman123]

54 minutes ago, Presnock said:

Wold be wise to check your country's DTA status with thailand as that is where one ould find out what will be taxed.  Fm the seminar I listened to, the Thai side wishes to taX ALL income be it earned or not and they will supposedly be exchanging data with one's native country as well for ALL income reporting.  

That was the original concept, but that has been reduced to monies transferred into Thailand.

 

But, TIT, so they might change the plan tomorrow.

 

Anyway, I will go abroad for the first two months of the year, and evaluate then.

[jerrymahoney]

16 minutes ago, Danderman123 said:

Presumably you have cash in the bank deposited prior to January 1, 2024.

Presumably. But in your post above, you are asking about untraceable ATM withdrawals.

[2baht]

1 hour ago, jerrymahoney said:

How do you show funds then for an extension of stay?

A local bank statement!

[jerrymahoney]

24 minutes ago, 2baht said:

A local bank statement!

How un-clever. I like the posts of how the quick-witted farang will out-maneuver the slow plodding Thai Revenue agent.

[jacko45k]

9 minutes ago, jerrymahoney said:

How un-clever. I like the posts of how the quick-witted farang will out-maneuver the slow plodding Thai Revenue agent.

No need, 800k on deposit will only pay tax on the interest. 

[jerrymahoney]

5 minutes ago, jacko45k said:

No need, 800k on deposit will only pay tax on the interest. 

And zero living expenses. I just got done with a retirement extension via 65K baht monthly deposit. They wanted 4 different bank reports showing the same FTT monthly deposits and the names of my long-deceased mother and father.

[jacko45k]

5 minutes ago, jerrymahoney said:

And zero living expenses. I just got done with a retirement extension via 65K baht monthly deposit. They wanted 4 different bank reports showing the same FTT monthly deposits and the names of my long-deceased mother and father.

Yes, I leave that money sitting there and living expenses come from another account. 

I too recently finished my extension, I was back and forth to the bank, went there 3 times to get the assorted letters to do the Extension, plus had to make a deposit on the same day as the letter.....far more pedantic than last year.  

[Mike Lister]

10 minutes ago, jerrymahoney said:

And zero living expenses. I just got done with a retirement extension via 65K baht monthly deposit. They wanted 4 different bank reports showing the same FTT monthly deposits and the names of my long-deceased mother and father.

I've just done an extension using a long standing fixed deposit account that has nothing else in it apart from my 400K visa money. This year they wanted copies of every page in the bank book, a statement of the account from my bank covering the past three months and a letter from the bank confirming the balance.  They've become paranoid beyond belief.

[Danderman123]

1 hour ago, jerrymahoney said:

Presumably. But in your post above, you are asking about untraceable ATM withdrawals.

When Immigration authorities ask you about your funds for an extension of stay, you can show them your Thai bank passbook. Your Thai bank account should contain sufficient funds for their requirements, with the funds having been deposited prior to January 1, 2024.

 

During 2024, many Farangs will want to minimize transfers into Thailand (transfers using wire trandfers, WISE, Western Union, etc.). I suggested one approach might be to use US bank cards to withdraw cash via Thai bank ATMs. The Revenue Department may not monitor the vast numbers of such transactions, due to the difficulty in matching the transactions against the Immigration Department database.

 

So, the first issue has nothing to do with the second. No idea why you are linking them.

[Danderman123]

16 minutes ago, jerrymahoney said:

And zero living expenses. I just got done with a retirement extension via 65K baht monthly deposit. They wanted 4 different bank reports showing the same FTT monthly deposits and the names of my long-deceased mother and father.

The problem is that the 65K monthly deposit may be taxable in 2024.

[Mike Lister]

3 minutes ago, Danderman123 said:

When Immigration authorities ask you about your funds for an extension of stay, you can show them your Thai bank passbook. Your Thai bank account should contain sufficient funds for their requirements, with the funds having been deposited prior to January 1, 2024.

 

During 2024, many Farangs will want to minimize transfers into Thailand (transfers using wire trandfers, WISE, Western Union, etc.). I suggested one approach might be to use US bank cards to withdraw cash via Thai bank ATMs. The Revenue Department may not monitor the vast numbers of such transactions, due to the difficulty in matching the transactions against the Immigration Department database.

 

So, the first issue has nothing to do with the second. No idea why you are linking them.

Respectfully DM, do you not think that those sorts of statements are somewhat paranoid? I think it goes without saying that the RD is not going to monitor cash withdrawals from ATM's by foreigners. The BOT almost certainly will monitor cash flows as part of its money in circulation reporting but not at the macro level, that's years and years away.

[jacko45k]

5 minutes ago, Mike Lister said:

I've just done an extension using a long standing fixed deposit account that has nothing else in it apart from my 400K visa money. This year they wanted copies of every page in the bank book, a statement of the account from my bank covering the past three months and a letter from the bank confirming the balance.  They've become paranoid beyond belief.

I was told a lot of fuss was made and they were told to seriously tighten up on checks because of the chopped up body in  a fridge, riding around in the back of a pick up, that occurred in July. Someone needs to tell them folks who have been here 20 years, retired and on pension, rarely get involved in that sort of thing!

[Mike Lister]

2 minutes ago, jacko45k said:

I was told a lot of fuss was made and they were told to seriously tighten up on checks because of the chopped up body in  a fridge, riding around in the back of a pick up, that occurred in July. Someone needs to tell them folks who have been here 20 years, retired and on pension, rarely get involved in that sort of thing!

Ridiculous, we don't even have enough spare room in our fridge.

[jacko45k]

6 minutes ago, Mike Lister said:

Ridiculous, we don't even have enough spare room in our fridge.

It was a chest freezer and they took it literally!

[UKresonant]

2 hours ago, Presnock said:

Seminar I listened too said that they were checking out what to do about credit card use and ATM withdrawals too.  That they are looking at all income earned for the year whether it is within THailand or not as long as you are a resident in their country and whether or not you sent it all into Thailand that year or kept part of it in your home country.  Until the final version is out the final version will not be complete

That's the over 179 days and you  get salt in the coffee version. Not so much of an incentive to exceed the threshold, if you are not permanently there anyway.

The tax system would become even more arrogant than my home countries system, as positive circumstance of being (tax) resident is perhaps substantially less. Except the temperature perhaps 

Final version anticipated, but when will they get round to it, is anybodys guess.

[Ben Zioner]

16 minutes ago, jacko45k said:

It was a chest freezer and they took it literally!

Could someone give us a  link to that  story. As I don't  see how it could be related to RD  fleecing Farangs?