New Tax implementation on income from abroad, where would you relocate?

[pluto_manibo]

Taking into consideration; 

• Inflation on products and services have become quite important in the last year
• Exchange rates have hovered at a sub par level for the last ten years
• The supposedly increased financial requirements for long term visas(Based on marriage or retirement)
• The restructuring and increased costs of the Elite visas
• New taxes on income earned abroad to be implemented from January 2024

    I know that everyone's situation is different. Some believe that the double tax treaties will shelter them, some are not subject to double tax treaties, others do not have many obligations and can pick up and leave. However most of us, have established a life here(hopefully! Unless you want to live your life like Robert Deniro in Heat!); families, friends, real estate assets, businesses, pets etc....Leaving would be an option but not a popular one. The alternatives in this geographic area are also problematic in terms of changing requirements (Malaysia, Indonesia) and the other popular options are not so appealing in comparison to Thailand. It is too early to make drastic changes but nice to prepare an alternative in order to maintain a reasonable living standard. It seems that either you either make a major change to your standard of living in "developing countries", restructuring your finances and move to a tax haven or bite the bullet and hope for the best as your purchasing power/ savings/ pensions are eroded at an alarming rate. Where would you relocate to?

[bob smith]

where would you relocate?

wherever the heck I want!

I can live pretty much anywhere. 

[JimTripper]

There are not a lot of options for places with long term visas using just the savings method without documenting income. That’s pretty much why I ended up in Thailand. If income fluctuates, even if I have plenty in savings, it becomes troublesome, or just looks so weird on paper that it may not qualify.

 

The other options I saw (if I did not want to keep moving around every several months) were Cambodia, Mexico, Philippines or moving out into cheaper areas in the USA.

 

Many countries open up if you’re very wealthy with golden visas, but I’m not at that level.

Edited September 20, 2023 by JimTripper

[Tom H]

A friend checked all countries very pedantic.

 

He decided to leave Thailand in 2021 and moved on to Equador (Covid times!). He took his Thai girl friend with him!

 

Political unrest sometimes there, but no immigration issues etc.

 

He wanted to live without any paper problems at the age of 75, receiving 2k USD each month.

 

He said the cherries he loves so much wont cost 1,400 Baht for a small tricky box at malls, he pays 50 Baht for double:).

 

Anyways.

I ll stay in Thailand and will transfer some money in 2023 to avoid tax in case they will tax my transfers…A five year approach is considered. Waiting for exact details on new situation.

 

And the further future in worst case?

I ll pay over foreign Baht bank account abroad my bigger bills in Thailand:).

 

I even can use ATM.

Many options visible on the horizon.

 

Even cash can fly in:).

19,999 USD :).

 

Finally: Once the exchange course for USD hit 42 and you take 1M Baht as a basis per year the exchange profit since government is in place (33?) equals the tax of lets say <20%.????

 

Just rough calculated.

The Baht will have an issue and it starts now.

 

 

 

 

 

 

Edited September 20, 2023 by Tom H

[pluto_manibo]

26 minutes ago, JimTripper said:

 

The other options I saw (if I did not want to keep moving around every several months) were Cambodia, Mexico, Philippines or moving out into cheaper areas in the USA.

 

 

For Cambodia and the Philippines you will have to make adjustments to your living conditions, imported products are more expensive. You must also factor the costs of health issues. You probably will need to fly to Thailand or abroad for treatment. In regards to Mexico, residents are liable to Mexican income taxes on worldwide income.

Edited September 20, 2023 by pluto_manibo

[Ben Zioner]

I'd stay put. I don't have a house back home, so renting a place like the one I got here would costt me as much as the 850000 I could end up paying here. And even in Portugal I'd have to pay some income tax. Further I have two girls of school age, they speak and write English and Thai. I don't think EU government schools have English programs.  And last there is the risk that wife and kids become utterly unhappy in a strange country and want to come back...

 

So I'll try to mitigate the impact of the changes, but on the other hand I understand the need for income tax. And paying it here will give the warm (and expensive) feeling that I give a lot to Thailand, and get very little back. But this is the land of the ungracious.

[hotchilli]

23 hours ago, pluto_manibo said:

Where would you relocate to?

Philippines.... 

[LALes]

At 74, i don't really want to pack up and leave Thailand, but if they start taxing falangs on Retirement Visas just bringing savings in from a Western bank, that would suck big time.  Still needs to be clarification on this point.

[pluto_manibo]

On 9/20/2023 at 6:13 AM, pluto_manibo said:

Where would you relocate to?

Philippines.... 

Looks like alternating between Philippines and Thailand is the most budget friendly option. If taxing savings, not receiving any services in return but the privilege of breathing on Thai soil and doing the visa dance every year, I will have to make drastic adjustments as well.

Edited September 21, 2023 by pluto_manibo

[Captain Monday]

Not yet time to worry but what news is solid enough to be  panicking over?

 

Tax treaties, homes in second in and third counttries, full time travel, don't spend more than 6 months in any one jurisdiction. 

 

Did you invest more than you can afford to walk away from and incur a deadweight loss? SAD

 

 

[Ben Zioner]

1 hour ago, hotchilli said:

Philippines.... 

How is healthcare in the Philippines? Anything at the level of Bumrungrad in Cebu? As I wouldn't even get close to Manilla.

 

"This “brain drain” of healthcare workers is a serious problem for the Philippine healthcare system. In 2019, the country had approximately one doctor or nurse per 20,000 residents, which is not considered adequate to a population’s needs. "

Healthcare in the Philippines

 

Thailand has one doctor for every 1000 to 2000 residents, depending on sources. 

Edited September 21, 2023 by Ben Zioner

[JimTripper]

1 minute ago, Ben Zioner said:

How is healthcare in the Philippines? Anything at the level of Bumrungrad in Cebu? As I wouldn't even get close to Manilla.

Not if you didn’t have too ????

[pluto_manibo]

The scenario changes if you have a normal life with wife and family, pets, etc... Jumping around from country to country does not become a viable option. In the event of big purchases such as a new car, home repairs, a medical emergency outside the realms of your health insurance policy, etc....These would easily bring you into the 20-35% bracket(1 million-5 million) if funds were to be brought in from abroad.

 

Edited September 21, 2023 by pluto_manibo

[daveAustin]

On 9/20/2023 at 6:13 AM, pluto_manibo said:

Unless you want to live your life like Robert Deniro in Heat!

Now that is a movie!!

 

Dunno. Possibly spend 6 months out of the country. One thing I will not do is pay tax on taxed income. They can go and do one!

[VBer]

I not so understand how they are going to implement tax on money taken from ATM. 200 baht for 20k transaction, 1% “tax”, I’m fine with it ????

[Ben Zioner]

9 minutes ago, VBer said:

I not so understand how they are going to implement tax on money taken from ATM. 200 baht for 20k transaction, 1% “tax”, I’m fine with it ????

And yet we used to complain about those 220 Baht too...

Edited September 21, 2023 by Ben Zioner

[PB172111]

On 9/20/2023 at 6:13 AM, pluto_manibo said:

Taking into consideration; 

• Inflation on products and services have become quite important in the last year
• Exchange rates have hovered at a sub par level for the last ten years
• The supposedly increased financial requirements for long term visas(Based on marriage or retirement)
• The restructuring and increased costs of the Elite visas
• New taxes on income earned abroad to be implemented from January 2024

    I know that everyone's situation is different. Some believe that the double tax treaties will shelter them, some are not subject to double tax treaties, others do not have many obligations and can pick up and leave. However most of us, have established a life here(hopefully! Unless you want to live your life like Robert Deniro in Heat!); families, friends, real estate assets, businesses, pets etc....Leaving would be an option but not a popular one. The alternatives in this geographic area are also problematic in terms of changing requirements (Malaysia, Indonesia) and the other popular options are not so appealing in comparison to Thailand. It is too early to make drastic changes but nice to prepare an alternative in order to maintain a reasonable living standard. It seems that either you either make a major change to your standard of living in "developing countries", restructuring your finances and move to a tax haven or bite the bullet and hope for the best as your purchasing power/ savings/ pensions are eroded at an alarming rate. Where would you relocate to?

Chill bro

[JimTripper]

46 minutes ago, VBer said:

I not so understand how they are going to implement tax on money taken from ATM. 200 baht for 20k transaction, 1% “tax”, I’m fine with it ????

It would likely be our responsibility to self report income and file taxes annually. If they were not filed and paid it could be picked up on immigration records and trigger an audit.

[Skeptic7]

I wouldn't relocate even if the worst case scenario plays out. I certainly wouldn't like it and would bash this place even more than already do ????...but it wouldn't alter or affect my lifestyle a whit. Thailand has been my home for more than 2 decades. It's a 75% love/25% hate relationship, but very happy and comfortable here with a great lady, great food, great travel, good health, good weather and good times. I'm staying. 

[Lamphen]

I will stay here with my Thai wife as I have decided to spend my 'golden years' here.

Since I already pay taxes and enjoy the double taxation treaty it will not trigger any need to move.

The FX rates have not been very good the last few years, but the cost of living is still very favorable to me.     

However, there's a lot of stuff going on in this world these days, so who knows?                                                                             

[Felton Jarvis]

Cambodia or the Philippines in that order.

[connda]

On 9/20/2023 at 7:16 AM, Tom H said:

A friend checked all countries very pedantic.

 

He decided to leave Thailand in 2021 and moved on to Equador (Covid times!). He took his Thai girl friend with him!

 

Political unrest sometimes there, but no immigration issues etc.

 

He wanted to live without any paper problems at the age of 75, receiving 2k USD each month.

 

He said the cherries he loves so much wont cost 1,400 Baht for a small tricky box at malls, he pays 50 Baht for double:).

 

Anyways.

I ll stay in Thailand and will transfer some money in 2023 to avoid tax in case they will tax my transfers…A five year approach is considered. Waiting for exact details on new situation.

 

And the further future in worst case?

I ll pay over foreign Baht bank account abroad my bigger bills in Thailand:).

 

I even can use ATM.

Many options visible on the horizon.

 

Even cash can fly in:).

19,999 USD :).

 

Finally: Once the exchange course for USD hit 42 and you take 1M Baht as a basis per year the exchange profit since government is in place (33?) equals the tax of lets say <20%.????

 

Just rough calculated.

The Baht will have an issue and it starts now.

 

 

 

 

 

 

The US and Thailand have a Tax Treaty.  You won't be paying double tax on your US income as you are already taxed.  That is exactly the point of Tax Treaties.  If the Thai government doesn't get it's foreign tax policy's ???? together they'll be so much international flack by March 2024 that Srettha's government will have to address the issues or lose face.  The international community will force the issue. 
Now as far as Thai natives deriving income from overseas like retail investors.  Yeah!  They should be paying tax to their own country's government. 
The problem here is that Srettha's government has tossed a net in order to catch little Thai fishes, but the foreign sharks and whales they catch will tear the nets to pieces.  They really need to focus their policies on their own citizens and be da*m clear about it, which they are not at the moment.

At worse you'll need to file some additional paperwork.  But I doubt this insanity is going to stand firm for more than a couple of months as it was poorly planned and implemented without any real forethought.  TIT.

Edited September 21, 2023 by connda

[Srikcir]

On 9/20/2023 at 6:44 AM, bob smith said:

where would you relocate?

wherever the heck I want!

I can live pretty much anywhere. 

Let us know when you move to North Korea.

[connda]

25 minutes ago, Srikcir said:

Let us know when you move to North Korea.

I hear the Kimchee is great this time of year! 

[crazykopite]

Philippines’s that would also unfreeze my U.K. pension where I currently lose about £35 per week I would also rent out my beach house long term and earn a a nice amount of money for it I currently know of one person who would be happy to rent it from me and who is a long termer on the island 

[Toby1947]

Glad I never took the silly plunge I considered years ago on my early visits to the Land of Scams. I'm happy to do 6 months about as a tourist,  there's no better country on the planet than dear old Blighty especially during Spring and Summer. Thousands of so called expats there regret burning their bridges if the truth be known, and I'm not just talking about the cheap Charlie's 

[Srikcir]

3 hours ago, connda said:

I hear the Kimchee is great this time of year! 

Then you've had naengmyeon.

[connda]

2 hours ago, Srikcir said:

Then you've had naengmyeon.

Other than Kimchee I'm not fond of Korean food at all.  One of my least favorite places to eat on this globe. 

[khunPer]

It's depending of your income sources and where you come from, if relocation is a benefit – Thailand is however still a quite good place to live.

If your income is covered by a double taxation agreement (DTA), your situation is unchanged, as you already is liable for income tax in Thailand and covered by a DTA. This could for example be income from retirement pensions.

 

If your income comes from other sources than covered by a DTA you can "always look at the bright side of live", and be happy for the low tax rates in Thailand – of course "low" is relative to which country your comes from, but if it is from a high taxed state, even the top Thai taxation level of 35% for earnings over 4 million baht is laughingly low – in my home country we are taxed 52.07% of anything over any earnings more than equivalent to 2.9 million baht...????

 

In some countries you are not taxed of for example interest, certain fees, and capital gain when living in Thailand; so, bringing that earning into Thailand are now being taxed instead of being considered as tax-free savings if kept past a 31st December before transferred. That's of course bad, but not as bad as if staying home where my lowest tax rate would begin around 38%...

[Aldo123]

On 9/21/2023 at 7:29 AM, pluto_manibo said:

The scenario changes if you have a normal life with wife and family, pets, etc... Jumping around from country to country does not become a viable option. In the event of big purchases such as a new car, home repairs, a medical emergency outside the realms of your health insurance policy, etc....These would easily bring you into the 20-35% bracket(1 million-5 million) if funds were to be brought in from abroad.

 

I think this is the problem for many of us. If rooted here with family, and retiring, and not wanting (or cannot afford) to lose 30% of your pension or other forms of foreign income, I guess one could live here 6 months (179 days) then spend the other half of the year moving between your home country (family and friends - 5 months) then a month on 'vacation' somewhere before returning to Thailand to repeat the process. Pretty expensive though - continuing to maintain the home in Thailand while moving around for 6 months. Works if you're rich, much less so if you're not.