webfact Posted September 25, 2023 Share Posted September 25, 2023 In 1789, American statesman Benjamin Franklin recorded in a letter, “In this world nothing can be said to be certain, except death and taxes”. And boy, will the new income tax law starting Jan 1, 2024 will make us feel like we’d rather have the other one. According to an official document released on Sep 15, “…those that have earnings from occupation or business abroad or wealth that is located abroad…and have brought these assets into Thailand…must factor this into their personal income tax for the year.” Translation: For those who get any money from overseas and are permanent residents in Thailand will be qualified to pay taxes in Thailand from next year. That’s not all. This new law is not limited to only just incomes, but literally any of your assets coming into your bank account from overseas, will now be taxable. by Choltanutkun Tun-atiruj Full story: THAI ENQUIRER 2023-09-25 - Cigna offers a range of visa-compliant plans that meet the minimum requirement of medical treatment, including COVID-19, up to THB 3m. For more information on all expat health insurance plans click here. Get our Daily Newsletter - Click HERE to subscribe 3 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post KhunLA Posted September 25, 2023 Popular Post Share Posted September 25, 2023 To the title, and why I preferred to stop paying taxes in USA, as not liking what they wasted it on. Here/TH, and the tax treaty will avoid any taxes on income. As with most expats. But for some reason, we need thread after thread of 'not going to be taxed' to worry about. 7 2 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ezzra Posted September 25, 2023 Share Posted September 25, 2023 "Opinion: Making me pay tax is fine but where does it go?" this article must have written in jest, do we know where all the other taxes, dues and payments we pay goes to that the article asks this question? 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post daveAustin Posted September 25, 2023 Popular Post Share Posted September 25, 2023 Would sooner burn my taxed income than watch it go directly into the pocket of some unelected dinosaur here. That is where this bogus 'tax' will go. 6 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ben Zioner Posted September 25, 2023 Share Posted September 25, 2023 This is exactly how I feel, even though I am not a Thai citizen, but I am the father of two bright Thai who might have to leave the country of their childhood to get a decent life. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post connda Posted September 25, 2023 Popular Post Share Posted September 25, 2023 Everyone who buys anything is taxed. It's called VAT. 2 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bob smith Posted September 25, 2023 Share Posted September 25, 2023 good question. more than likely into the back pocket of some corrupt official. thanks, but no thanks. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post nausea Posted September 25, 2023 Popular Post Share Posted September 25, 2023 Won't affect me, I assume, cos double taxation is a thing. If I had a choice though, I'd rather pay tax here than in the UK; rankles me that I pay UK tax but my state pension is frozen, doesn't seem fair somehow. 3 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
retarius Posted September 25, 2023 Share Posted September 25, 2023 1 hour ago, KhunLA said: To the title, and why I preferred to stop paying taxes in USA, as not liking what they wasted it on. Here/TH, and the tax treaty will avoid any taxes on income. As with most expats. But for some reason, we need thread after thread of 'not going to be taxed' to worry about. How did you manage to stop paying US taxes? I have not lived in the US since 2005 and always have had to pay up....and no I don't agree with spending my money on endless warmongering. 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post foreverlomsak Posted September 25, 2023 Popular Post Share Posted September 25, 2023 In the Thai Enquirer story the mentions 35% tax, however the papers only ever quote the highest rate. Thai Personal Income Tax has a progressive rate table similar in style to the UK. Starting from Total Income, you have various allowances and deductibles to produce the Taxable Amount. The first 150,000 is exempt 150,000 to 300,000 is 5% 300,000 to 500,000 is 10% 500,000 to 750,000 is 15% an so on until the final rate at 35% on incomes above 4,000,000 Baht see attached Personal Income Tax | The Revenue Department (English Site) (rd.go.th) For somebody who is taking in exactly 65,000 each month for Immigration purposes, the annual tax bill, worst case no rebate for double taxation and no allowances & deductibles, would be 71,000 not the 273,000 implied by the Thai Enquirer story of 35% tax on all income. 3 1 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
foreverlomsak Posted September 25, 2023 Share Posted September 25, 2023 18 minutes ago, nausea said: Won't affect me, I assume, cos double taxation is a thing. If I had a choice though, I'd rather pay tax here than in the UK; rankles me that I pay UK tax but my state pension is frozen, doesn't seem fair somehow. One benefit of being forced into doing Thai Tax returns is that the Tax Withholding (15%) on your savings in the Thai bank should be recoverable, not much (as the interest payable is not much) but should pay for a few bottles of beer. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
biervoormij Posted September 25, 2023 Share Posted September 25, 2023 1 hour ago, foreverlomsak said: In the Thai Enquirer story the mentions 35% tax, however the papers only ever quote the highest rate. Thai Personal Income Tax has a progressive rate table similar in style to the UK. Starting from Total Income, you have various allowances and deductibles to produce the Taxable Amount. The first 150,000 is exempt 150,000 to 300,000 is 5% 300,000 to 500,000 is 10% 500,000 to 750,000 is 15% an so on until the final rate at 35% on incomes above 4,000,000 Baht see attached Personal Income Tax | The Revenue Department (English Site) (rd.go.th) For somebody who is taking in exactly 65,000 each month for Immigration purposes, the annual tax bill, worst case no rebate for double taxation and no allowances & deductibles, would be 71,000 not the 273,000 implied by the Thai Enquirer story of 35% tax on all income. Thanks for this. I assume in addition to the 71,000 tax I will need to get a Thai Tax ID and be expected to submit a Thai tax return yearly? I come from a country with a tax treaty but my income is below the standard deduction there so am not currently paying any tax. I am living mostly on saving which I believe will be seen as income when coming into Thailand. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post KhunLA Posted September 25, 2023 Popular Post Share Posted September 25, 2023 1 hour ago, retarius said: How did you manage to stop paying US taxes? I have not lived in the US since 2005 and always have had to pay up....and no I don't agree with spending my money on endless warmongering. Stopped producing taxable income. 1 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post soalbundy Posted September 25, 2023 Popular Post Share Posted September 25, 2023 21 minutes ago, biervoormij said: Thanks for this. I assume in addition to the 71,000 tax I will need to get a Thai Tax ID and be expected to submit a Thai tax return yearly? I come from a country with a tax treaty but my income is below the standard deduction there so am not currently paying any tax. I am living mostly on saving which I believe will be seen as income when coming into Thailand. I get a good German pension that is not taxed in Germany, that has always intrigued me until I looked at old correspondence from the German tax office, they state that they won't tax me because I live in Thailand and due to the double taxation treaty it is the alone right of the Thai tax office to tax me. I am assuming that they can only tax that part of my pension that I transfer to Thailand, the rest stays in my German account. 1 1 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lacrimas Posted September 25, 2023 Share Posted September 25, 2023 2 hours ago, Ben Zioner said: This is exactly how I feel, even though I am not a Thai citizen, but I am the father of two bright Thai who might have to leave the country of their childhood to get a decent life. where is this dreamland you want to send your kids to? the rotten USA? Invaded Europe? China? 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lacrimas Posted September 25, 2023 Share Posted September 25, 2023 2 hours ago, connda said: Everyone who buys anything is taxed. It's called VAT. exactly, there's no need to burden us with additional tax considering we already help this nation a lot 1 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Andyfez Posted September 25, 2023 Share Posted September 25, 2023 I wonder how they will police this? Tax all income coming into the country? If I bring it in through ATM or Western union, how will they know? 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hotchilli Posted September 25, 2023 Share Posted September 25, 2023 4 hours ago, webfact said: Translation: For those who get any money from overseas and are permanent residents in Thailand will be qualified to pay taxes in Thailand from next year. So if you stay here on an annual renewable visa you are NOT a resident? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post Mike Teavee Posted September 25, 2023 Popular Post Share Posted September 25, 2023 (edited) 19 minutes ago, hotchilli said: So if you stay here on an annual renewable visa you are NOT a resident? Usual sloppy reporting, the official notice said "Tax Residents" i.e. anybody who spends 180+ days in Thailand in any one calendar/tax year. Edited September 25, 2023 by Mike Teavee 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mike Teavee Posted September 25, 2023 Share Posted September 25, 2023 (edited) 14 minutes ago, Andyfez said: I wonder how they will police this? Tax all income coming into the country? If I bring it in through ATM or Western union, how will they know? Here's one for you, over the course of a year I give my mate who works in Bangkok approx. £10,000 in the UK for his regular investing there & stuff he buys for his kids etc..., he pays the equivalent into my Thailand Bank Account. Am I bringing this money into Thailand? Edited September 25, 2023 by Mike Teavee Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
freeworld Posted September 25, 2023 Share Posted September 25, 2023 (edited) 1 hour ago, biervoormij said: Thanks for this. I assume in addition to the 71,000 tax I will need to get a Thai Tax ID and be expected to submit a Thai tax return yearly? I come from a country with a tax treaty but my income is below the standard deduction there so am not currently paying any tax. I am living mostly on saving which I believe will be seen as income when coming into Thailand. ''I am living mostly on saving which I believe will be seen as income when coming into Thailand.'' No that is not income. You may just have to explain it if they ask. The only income may be some interest accrued and there were requirements when it had to be transferred out and even then it will be below the marginal limit when one starts to pay tax. Edited September 25, 2023 by freeworld 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
No Forwarding Address Posted September 25, 2023 Share Posted September 25, 2023 2 hours ago, retarius said: How did you manage to stop paying US taxes? I have not lived in the US since 2005 and always have had to pay up....and no I don't agree with spending my money on endless warmongering. The only ways I know are "getting a second passport and being a Native American and living on a Reservation". Big misconception is you don't have to pay US taxes after being overseas after so many years........The long arm of the IRS will come and get you, there are lot's of people in jail for income tax evasion..........don't do it. You can take a Foreign Income Tax deduction if Thailand ever taxes your income, but I don't see that affecting most people here. Cheers Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
No Forwarding Address Posted September 25, 2023 Share Posted September 25, 2023 3 minutes ago, Mike Teavee said: Here's one for you, over the course of a year I give my mate who works in Bangkok approx. £10,000 in the UK for his regular investing there & stuff he buys for his kids etc..., he pays the equivalent into my Thailand Bank Account. Am I bringing this money into Thailand? How is it deposited?? If in a UK Bank account, then no you're not bringing money into Thailand. I would suspect he pays taxes on his income in Bangkok so taxes have been paid - all is good. Cheers 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mike Teavee Posted September 25, 2023 Share Posted September 25, 2023 (edited) 11 minutes ago, No Forwarding Address said: How is it deposited?? If in a UK Bank account, then no you're not bringing money into Thailand. I would suspect he pays taxes on his income in Bangkok so taxes have been paid - all is good. Cheers Transferred from my Barclays account to his Natwest Account or paid by me on my UK credit card (I pay for our annual trip home to visit family) & he pays me back from his (taxed) income in Thailand. Works out well for both of us as we use the XE mid market rate which is higher than I would get transferring money over & lower than he would need to pay to transfer THB to GBP. Edited September 25, 2023 by Mike Teavee 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
soalbundy Posted September 25, 2023 Share Posted September 25, 2023 4 hours ago, Ben Zioner said: This is exactly how I feel, even though I am not a Thai citizen, but I am the father of two bright Thai who might have to leave the country of their childhood to get a decent life. I think the fears of taxation on pensions of foreigners is overblown. Thailand has always had the right to tax our pensions but has never done so. I have correspondence from my German tax office from 19 years ago saying that they aren't taxing my pension because this is the right of the Thai tax authorities alone as I live in Thailand and due to the double tax agreement the German tax office relinquishes any right to tax me as I have no income besides my pension being generated in Germany. I have read in 'Bangkok news' that the new tax laws are purposely ambiguous and target those with businesses with a tax number generating income abroad. I don't have a tax number and haven't paid tax anywhere for 19 years nor have I been asked to. Before I got a letter confirming that I wouldn't be taxed in Germany as this was a matter for the Thai tax people I had to have a form filled out by the Thai tax office for the German tax office confirming that I had no other income except for my pension, they refused to do so because I didn't have a Thai tax number, they just weren't interested in my untaxed pension. 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Puccini Posted September 25, 2023 Share Posted September 25, 2023 (edited) 2 hours ago, soalbundy said: I get a good German pension that is not taxed in Germany, that has always intrigued me until I looked at old correspondence from the German tax office, they state that they won't tax me because I live in Thailand and due to the double taxation treaty it is the alone right of the Thai tax office to tax me. I am assuming that they can only tax that part of my pension that I transfer to Thailand, the rest stays in my German account. This is what the "AGREEMENT BETWEEN THE KINGDOM OF THAILAND AND THE FEDERAL REPUBLIC OF GERMANY FOR THE AVOIDANCE OF DOUBLE TAXATION WITH RESPECT TO TAXES ON INCOME AND ON CAPITAL", completed on July 10, 1967, says: Quote ARTICLE 18 1 Pensions and other payments for past employment as well as annuities derived by a resident of a Contracting State may be taxed in the other Contracting State only if such payments are deducted as expenses in determining the profits of an enterprise of that other State or of a permanent establishment situated therein. 2 Notwithstanding the provisions of paragraph 1, pensions and other payments for past employment as well as annuities paid by or out of funds created by a Contracting State, a “Land”, a political subdivision, local authority or local administration thereof shall be exempt from tax in the other Contracting State. 3 Paragraph 2 shall likewise apply in respect or pensions, annuities and other recurring or not recurring remuneration paid to any individual by a Contracting State, a “Land” a political subdivision, a local authority or local administration thereof as compensation for an injury or damage sustained as a result of hostilities or political persecution. Source: https://www.aseanbriefing.com/userfiles/resources-pdfs/Thailand/DTA/ASEAN_DTA_Thailand_Germany.pdf It is possible and probable that this old agreement of 1967 has been replaced by a newer agreement but I could not find any newer agreement. Edited September 25, 2023 by Puccini Added link to the source Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
foreverlomsak Posted September 25, 2023 Share Posted September 25, 2023 2 hours ago, biervoormij said: Thanks for this. I assume in addition to the 71,000 tax I will need to get a Thai Tax ID and be expected to submit a Thai tax return yearly? I come from a country with a tax treaty but my income is below the standard deduction there so am not currently paying any tax. I am living mostly on saving which I believe will be seen as income when coming into Thailand. There's no need to do anything at the moment. Even if you are not paying tax in your home country, your income is still subject to your countries tax, and therefore depends on the tax treaty. I am mostly living on savings as well, but my savings are mostly here already, so only the interest on it is taxable by Thailand. 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BE88 Posted September 25, 2023 Share Posted September 25, 2023 4 hours ago, connda said: Everyone who buys anything is taxed. It's called VAT. And from next year you will pay the tax twice. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thaindrew Posted September 25, 2023 Share Posted September 25, 2023 3 hours ago, foreverlomsak said: In the Thai Enquirer story the mentions 35% tax, however the papers only ever quote the highest rate. Thai Personal Income Tax has a progressive rate table similar in style to the UK. Starting from Total Income, you have various allowances and deductibles to produce the Taxable Amount. The first 150,000 is exempt 150,000 to 300,000 is 5% 300,000 to 500,000 is 10% 500,000 to 750,000 is 15% an so on until the final rate at 35% on incomes above 4,000,000 Baht see attached Personal Income Tax | The Revenue Department (English Site) (rd.go.th) For somebody who is taking in exactly 65,000 each month for Immigration purposes, the annual tax bill, worst case no rebate for double taxation and no allowances & deductibles, would be 71,000 not the 273,000 implied by the Thai Enquirer story of 35% tax on all income. this is where it will get interesting / complicated as in many instances that 65000 is not coming in as visa applications are submitted via agents who "deposit" 800,000. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chang50 Posted September 25, 2023 Share Posted September 25, 2023 2 minutes ago, Thaindrew said: this is where it will get interesting / complicated as in many instances that 65000 is not coming in as visa applications are submitted via agents who "deposit" 800,000. I've been curious about this too.. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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