Covid-19 mRNA Vaccines Win Nobel Prize for Medicine 2023

[atpeace]

17 minutes ago, Bkk Brian said:

The source links are in the post....................

Thanks I missed that and my  apologies to TallGuyJohninBKK.  My bad..

[rattlesnake]

9 minutes ago, TallGuyJohninBKK said:

Promoting myths again?

MYTH: Researchers rushed the development of the COVID-19 vaccine, so its effectiveness and safety cannot be trusted.

"There are many reasons why the COVID-19 vaccines could be developed so quickly. Here are just a few:

 

The COVID-19 vaccines from Pfizer/BioNTech and Moderna were created with a method that has been in development for years, so the companies could start the vaccine development process early in the pandemic.

...

The vaccine developers didn’t skip any testing steps, but conducted some of the steps on an overlapping schedule to gather data faster."

 

https://www.hopkinsmedicine.org/health/conditions-and-diseases/coronavirus/covid-19-vaccines-myth-versus-fact

 

 

 

Simply quoting senior Pfizer executive Janine Small:

 

“Regarding the question around, um, did we know about stopping the immunisation [sic] before it entered the market? No, heh,” she said.

“Uh, these, um, you know, we had to really move at the speed of science to really understand what is taking place in the market, and from that point of view we had to do everything at risk."

https://www.news.com.au/technology/science/human-body/pfizer-did-not-know-whether-covid-vaccine-stopped-transmission-before-rollout-executive-admits/news-story/f307f28f794e173ac017a62784fec414

 

Several "fact-checking" articles were subsequently released to mitigate the impact of this statement (I am sure the usual pharma proponents of this forum will be diligently typing the relevant keywords on Google and posting the results within seconds of this post's publication).

 

But this what she said nonetheless. I think she knew exactly what she was talking about.

[TallGuyJohninBKK]

3 minutes ago, rattlesnake said:

Simply quoting senior Pfizer executive Janine Small:

 

“Regarding the question around, um, did we know about stopping the immunisation [sic] before it entered the market? No, heh,” she said.

“Uh, these, um, you know, we had to really move at the speed of science to really understand what is taking place in the market, and from that point of view we had to do everything at risk."

https://www.news.com.au/technology/science/human-body/pfizer-did-not-know-whether-covid-vaccine-stopped-transmission-before-rollout-executive-admits/news-story/f307f28f794e173ac017a62784fec414

 

Several "fact-checking" articles were subsequently released to mitigate the impact of this statement (I am sure the usual pharma proponents of this forum will be diligently typing the relevant keywords on Google and posting the results within seconds of this post's publication).

 

But this what she said nonetheless. I think she knew exactly what she was talking about.

 

Yes, that they moved quickly with the benefit of major government funding to respond to the worst public health crises in decades, and by doing so, saved tens of millions of lives.

 

"The COVID-19 vaccine was safely developed
The COVID-19 vaccine began rolling out less than a year into the pandemic. Vaccine development typically takes much longer, so it’s easy to wonder how we got this vaccine so soon. But the COVID-19 vaccine is held to the same safety standards as any other vaccine. Rigorous clinical trials have proven that they’re safe and effective."

 

 

 

https://healthy.kaiserpermanente.org/health-wellness/coronavirus-information/vaccine-learn/safe-and-effective

 

 

 

[cdemundo]

"I have 3 quadruple vaccinated friends in Utah, who are currently suffering from Covid."

 

shucky darn.

 

 

[xylophone]

21 minutes ago, atpeace said:

Strange post.  May I ask how old you are?  In your world nice drug reps never convince doctors to use drugs they probably should not be prescribing.  You came to this conclusion because your lovely wife is a good person and a drug rep.  Congrats on finding your wife but it is just a tad more deep than her ethics.  You seem to have good intentions and as I stated a good wife but your reality might not be the end all.

 

This conversation is over for me.  You are set in your believes and they may be correct.  I just have a different opinion and we aren't having a productive converstion.  Feel free to respond, like I have a say- lol, that is only fair but I'm done.

In your world nice drug reps never convince doctors to use drugs they probably should not be prescribing.

 

And in your world, doctors are so gullible and have low intellectual capabilities that they prescribe drugs that they should not be prescribing – – utter NONSENSE.

All of the doctors I know only prescribe what is best for the patient and follow the Hippocratic oath, and in doing so try to work in the best interests of the patient not the pharmaceutical company.

My ex-wife was also a senior laboratory technician (qualified) in a large Manchester hospital and had high ethical and moral standards before she became a medical representative.

Now here is something you may wish to take on board: – after she had been in the job for just under a year, we were having a conversation and she said she was totally disappointed with what she was finding out in the towns and villages in rural Sussex, with regards to the knowledge of many of the GPs she was seeing.

She stated that so many of them had not had a visit from a medical representative for perhaps years and they were so behind in their knowledge of what was available to treat various diseases/ailments, that she found it exasperating and wondered how on earth these GPs were going to keep up with medical advancements.

I totally believe in the medical profession and the people who practice therein and have never ever thought that they were not acting in MY best interests, and I've always found that to be the case.
 

[Mark Nothing]

Can this Nobel prize keep the Titanic from sinking to the bottom of the ocean?

 

I have no faith in the empty theories and unfulfilled promises.

 

Which is ok.  It leads to the right theories and the correct answers for those who desire it.

[TallGuyJohninBKK]

12 minutes ago, Mark Nothing said:

 

I have no faith in the empty theories and unfulfilled promises.

 

An estimated 20 million lives saved from COVID deaths in the first year of vaccinations through 2021 is a pretty good promise made and kept.

 

COVID vaccines saved 20 million lives in first year, study says

Health Jun 24, 2022 11:14 AM EDT

 

"Nearly 20 million lives were saved by COVID-19 vaccines during their first year, but even more deaths could have been prevented if international targets for the shots had been reached, researchers reported Thursday."

 

https://www.pbs.org/newshour/health/covid-vaccines-saved-20-million-lives-in-first-year-study-says

 

[TallGuyJohninBKK]

And then there's this just for the U.S.

 

Two Years of U.S. COVID-19 Vaccines Have Prevented Millions of Hospitalizations and Deaths

December 13, 2022

 

"From December 2020 through November 2022, we estimate that the COVID-19 vaccination program in the U.S. prevented more than 18.5 million additional hospitalizations and 3.2 million additional deaths.

 

Without vaccination, there would have been nearly 120 million more COVID-19 infections. The vaccination program also saved the U.S. $1.15 trillion (Credible Interval: $1.10 trillion–$1.19 trillion) (data not shown) in medical costs that would otherwise have been incurred."

 

https://www.commonwealthfund.org/blog/2022/two-years-covid-vaccines-prevented-millions-deaths-hospitalizations

 

[xylophone]

3 hours ago, Bkk Brian said:

Enough with the promotion of your conspiracy theories, this is getting tedious. We all know you're anti vax, you've claimed many times that vaccinations are putting poisons in your body, we all know you do not even believe in a pathogenic virus which is about as bizarre as can be.  But to come on here promoting your rubbish is toxic and not what this forum is about. Perhaps head to 4chan or somewhere more appropriate.

 

Sam Bailey who you are promoting was struck off being a registered practicing doctor by the New Zealand Medical Council for the covid misinformation and anti vax rhetoric she was promoting. Her infamous book she co wrote "Virus Mania" is nothing but a trip down the deep deep rabbit hole. 

 

https://factcheck.afp.com/new-zealand-doctor-makes-misleading-claims-about-countrys-pcr-testing-regime-widely-shared-youtube

 

https://www.stuff.co.nz/national/canterbury/132743978/christchurch-doctors-statements-in-videos-attention-seeking-and-clickbait-health-expert-says

 

 

I like your posts as they are factual and get to the point. And the point I have to make is, "how on earth did we get to this moment in time?".

I remember as a young boy, being in a long line of schoolchildren waiting to get vaccinated against polio, and our mothers would take us to the school to get the jab and nothing was ever said about it, and I really can't remember anyone refusing to have it. Maybe that was because there were a few children in our town who had contracted polio, so the results of it were easy to see. Indeed I was responsible for pushing a mate around in his wheelchair for many years when polio rendered him unable to walk.

Now we have social media upon which many lies and much conspiracy theory rubbish is published, and it gets to folk who think likewise, and to coin a phrase, "they disappear down the conspiracy theory/anti-vax rabbit hole". In addition, the commonly used term "big Pharma" is bandied around as if it means anything in the grand scheme of things, which it doesn't.

Luckily enough we have a few sensible posters on AN, but it doesn't stop the naysayers from posting their unscientific beliefs, rubbish gleaned from conspiracy theory websites and utter claptrap.

How on earth did it get to this?
 

[Eleftheros]

Quote

Two Years of U.S. COVID-19 Vaccines Have Prevented Millions of Hospitalizations and Deaths

Two utterly pointless studies based on those same sort of catastrophic computer models which got us into this mess in the first place.

 

And that's compounded by the inconvenient fact that defining a "Covid death" is in itself a pointlessly vague and arbitrary exercise. The definition of "a vaccinated individual" has in itself being carefully curated to include people who have been vaccinated, but not too long ago.

 

So they estimate a vague "Covid death rate" in the "unvaccinated", then they estimate a vague "Covid death rate" for the "vaccinated", find the difference and multiply by the population size.

 

Lo and behold, just the result they wanted - wonder vaccines save the world!

 

These "studies' serve no purpose but to placate the gullible and puff up their sense of moral superiority.

Edited October 3, 2023 by Eleftheros
Clarification

[TallGuyJohninBKK]

Might as well add this additional study to those mentioned above, since they all in different ways verify the vast numbers of lives saved by COVID vaccines -- contrary to the entirely unsourced and unsubstantiated claims above.

 

COVID vaccines saved at least 1 million lives in Europe, experts estimate

April 18, 2023

 

COVID-19 vaccination directly saved at least 1,004,927 lives across Europe from December 2020 to March 2023, according to new research presented at the European Congress of Clinical Microbiology & Infectious Diseases (ECCMID) annual meeting this week in Copenhagen, Denmark.

 

The study was based on weekly reported deaths and vaccination doses from 26 countries in Europe collected by the European Centre for Disease Prevention and Control.

 

https://www.cidrap.umn.edu/covid-19/covid-vaccines-saved-least-1-million-lives-europe-experts-estimate

 

Edited October 3, 2023 by TallGuyJohninBKK

[Eleftheros]

31 minutes ago, TallGuyJohninBKK said:

Might as well add this additional study to those mentioned above, since they all in different ways verify the vast numbers of lives saved by COVID vaccines -- contrary to the entirely unsourced and unsubstantiated claims above.

They don't "verify" anything, except the fact that if you put certain parameters into a computer model, you get certain results out.

 

The idea of computer modelling being able to predict things has a kind of magical allure for the ignorant, which is why it is used so often, and so disastrously, by governments.

 

[Bkk Brian]

47 minutes ago, xylophone said:

I like your posts as they are factual and get to the point. And the point I have to make is, "how on earth did we get to this moment in time?".

I remember as a young boy, being in a long line of schoolchildren waiting to get vaccinated against polio, and our mothers would take us to the school to get the jab and nothing was ever said about it, and I really can't remember anyone refusing to have it. Maybe that was because there were a few children in our town who had contracted polio, so the results of it were easy to see. Indeed I was responsible for pushing a mate around in his wheelchair for many years when polio rendered him unable to walk.

Now we have social media upon which many lies and much conspiracy theory rubbish is published, and it gets to folk who think likewise, and to coin a phrase, "they disappear down the conspiracy theory/anti-vax rabbit hole". In addition, the commonly used term "big Pharma" is bandied around as if it means anything in the grand scheme of things, which it doesn't.

Luckily enough we have a few sensible posters on AN, but it doesn't stop the naysayers from posting their unscientific beliefs, rubbish gleaned from conspiracy theory websites and utter claptrap.

How on earth did it get to this?
 

"How on earth did it get to this?"

 

I think as you mentioned, social media has been responsible for much of it, it draws together these people in droves:

 

This study reviewed 170 studies involving over 158,000 participants associated with conspiratorial thinking, mainly from the United States, the United Kingdom and Poland. 

 

Here's just a few reasons the study mentions but lots more context in the article.

 

The researchers found that overall, people were motivated to believe in conspiracy theories by a need to understand and feel safe in their environment and a need to feel like the community they identify with is superior to others.

The researchers also found that people with certain personality traits, such as a sense of antagonism toward others and high levels of paranoia, were more prone to believe conspiracy theories. Those who strongly believed in conspiracy theories were also more likely to be insecure, paranoid, emotionally volatile, impulsive, suspicious, withdrawn, manipulative, egocentric and eccentric.

https://www.apa.org/news/press/releases/2023/06/why-people-believe-conspiracy-theories

[owl sees all]

1 hour ago, xylophone said:

Luckily enough we have a few sensible posters on AN, but it doesn't stop the naysayers from posting their unscientific beliefs, rubbish gleaned from conspiracy theory websites and utter claptrap.

It's the 'naysayers' that have science on their side.

[owl sees all]

3 hours ago, cdemundo said:

"I have 3 quadruple vaccinated friends in Utah, who are currently suffering from Covid."

 

shucky darn.

 

 

Sorry to hear that. How do they know it's 'covid' they are suffering from, and not the effects of the shot?

Edited October 3, 2023 by owl sees all

[Dan O]

9 hours ago, atpeace said:

BIDEN: “You’re not going to get COVID if you have these vaccinations.” — town hall. 

 

Many were telling us vaccines would end the spread.  Biden was off base and honestly I'm probably going to make more mistakes at his age.  Many other officials were telling us that the vaccine would almost eliminate getting the virus minus rare breakthrough infections.  We learned within months that this was far from the truth and many started doubting the vaccine. 

 

I personally still believe the vaccines were an incredible accomplishment with a positive impact on the spread and fatality rates.  What upset many of us was that we were not allowed to freely express any doubts.  It was a sad time and weak people became powerful and abused this power.  Shame on them and all the hatred they promoted in the name of doing good.  Some good people lost their minds is how I look  back on the covid era.  Forgive and move on.

Biden isn't a doctor nor a scientist nor did he work any medical establishment

[Dan O]

9 hours ago, Red Phoenix said:

No need for that as I clearly remember the '100% safe and effective' statements made by government and Public Health officials when these novel (fancy word for experimental) jabs were being rolled out.  And the Big Guy (Biden) was very clear in his message to the nation, that you would not get COVID if you rolled-up your sleeve and got the vaccine.  

And possible 'adverse effects' were not mentioned at all as the shots were 100% safe. 

It's interesting to see how that initial '100% safe and effective' message (including that you would not TRANSMIT the virus when being jabbed) has been slowly and steadily 'updated' to keep up with the reality when the evidence of the contrary was not possible to deny anymore. 

 

Check what was published by the medical community not your memory, social media, or politicians. Biden isn't a doctor, scientist or part if the medical community

[Eleftheros]

4 minutes ago, Dan O said:

Biden isn't a doctor, scientist or part if the medical community

Then, as president of the USA, with the biggest global platform possible, he should have kept his mouth shut.

 

Unless, of course, he had been briefed by medical "experts" or bureaucrats before he spoke. And then he should have kept his mouth shut, as things turned out.

Edited October 3, 2023 by Eleftheros
Typos

[Dan O]

7 hours ago, Eleftheros said:

It would have been better if prominent politicians, bureaucrats and media types had done their homework in 2020 and not publicly stated ad nauseam that getting the jab will stop you getting Covid.

Last time I needed medical advice I went to the doctor not social media or politicians

[Bkk Brian]

1 minute ago, Eleftheros said:

Then, as president of the USA, with the biggest global platform possible, he should have kept his mouth shut.

 

Unless, of course, he had been briefed by medical "experts" or bureaucrats before he spoke. And then he should have kept his mouth shut, as things turned out.

What harm did it do exactly?

[xylophone]

36 minutes ago, Bkk Brian said:

The researchers also found that people with certain personality traits, such as a sense of antagonism toward others and high levels of paranoia, were more prone to believe conspiracy theories. Those who strongly believed in conspiracy theories were also more likely to be insecure, paranoid, emotionally volatile, impulsive, suspicious, withdrawn, manipulative, egocentric and eccentric.

Ah, that explains a lot about what I've been seeing on here..................LOL

Edited October 3, 2023 by xylophone

[Dan O]

2 minutes ago, Eleftheros said:

Then, as president of the USA, with the biggest global platform possible, he should have kept his mouth shut.

 

Unless, of course, he had been briefed by medical "experts" or bureaucrats before he spoke. And then he should have kept his mouth shut, as things turned out.

I agree people should use their own intelligence along with qualified medical input to make medical decisions which is what I said. I never once said you or anyone should get any vaccine nor did I say I'm pro or anti vaccine. I said do your own research and make an informed decision. If you listen to the wrong person, social media, politicians etc. for medical advice who's really to blame if you dont like your decision after the fact?

 

[owl sees all]

16 minutes ago, Eleftheros said:

Then, as president of the USA, with the biggest global platform possible, he should have kept his mouth shut.

 

Unless, of course, he had been briefed by medical "experts" or bureaucrats before he spoke. And then he should have kept his mouth shut, as things turned out.

Indeed!

 

'''Biden isn't a doctor nor a scientist nor did he work any medical establishment.'''

 

'''What harm did it do exactly?'''

 

These are silly arguments by a pro-vaxxers who have lost the plot. Many have had the jab themselves and are feeling poorly.

 

Personally I think these two scientists' were awarded the Nobel prize to keep the 'authenticity' of it all in the public's mind. After all the establishment trust has been shattered.

Edited October 3, 2023 by owl sees all

[TallGuyJohninBKK]

1 minute ago, Bkk Brian said:

What harm did it do exactly?

He was correct in the general sense, in that as has been almost universally acknowledged by numerous experts around the world -- excluding some random anti-vaxers here with no credible sources -- that COVID vaccines helped curb the pandemic and saved many millions of lives and prevented serious illness in many millions more.

 

But he also was/is a politician, who like many politicians, tends to speak in generalities... He overstated the detail. But he certainly had the right concepts!

 

At least, he, unlike his predecessor, wasn't urging people to take all kind of measures against COVID that the medical community has declared useless, harmful, potentially toxic.

 

[Eleftheros]

4 minutes ago, Bkk Brian said:

What harm did it do exactly?

Is that the new standard for statements by the US President? "He talked nonsense, but what harm did it do exactly?"

 

The harm caused is that when statements by those in power are revealed to be false, people lose trust in the official position, look to find some solid ground elsewhere, and are therefore more susceptible to fall into those conspiracy theories which are so much in vogue these days.

 

It's understandable; if the people in power are talking arrant BS, you look elsewhere to try to find something that you feel makes more sense.

[TallGuyJohninBKK]

1 minute ago, owl sees all said:

Personally I think these two scientists' were awarded the Nobel prize to keep the 'authenticity' of it all in the public's mind. After all the establishment trust has been shattered.

Says the poster who has publicly aligned himself here in this thread with a documented conspiracy-pseudoscience COVID misinformation peddling organization.

 

 

 

 

[Bkk Brian]

Just now, Eleftheros said:

Is that the new standard for statements by the US President? "He talked nonsense, but what harm did it do exactly?"

 

The harm caused is that when statements by those in power are revealed to be false, people lose trust in the official position, look to find some solid ground elsewhere, and are therefore more susceptible to fall into those conspiracy theories which are so much in vogue these days.

 

It's understandable; if the people in power are talking arrant BS, you look elsewhere to try to find something that you feel makes more sense.

So no harm then, it helped encourage people to take the vaccine and save more lives

[248900_1469958220]

19 hours ago, Dan O said:

if you bother to research any information on Covid vaccines you'll find they aren't claimed to stop contraction of covid but to lessen the effects and reduce impacts, hospitalization and deaths. Just like Flu vaccines dont stop you from getting the flu as flu and covid both mutate into new and different strains on a very regular basis, some more resistant than others. Do your homework and make an informed choice. 

That's funny i remember Biden saying just the opposite. 

[248900_1469958220]

 Medical misinformation???

Edited October 3, 2023 by 248900_1469958220

[TallGuyJohninBKK]

"In August 2022, the risk of dying from COVID-19 among unvaccinated adults compared with adults who received a primary series was 9 times higher for adults aged 65–79 years and 4 times higher for adults aged ≥80 years.

...

Compared with adults who received a primary series in the same age group, the risk of dying from COVID-19 among unvaccinated adults was 3 times higher for adults aged 18–29 years, 5 times higher for adults aged 30–49 years, and 6 times higher for adults aged 50–64 years.

...

In August 2022, adults aged ≥50 years with at least 2 booster doses had 3 times lower risk of dying from COVID-19 than adults of the same age with one booster dose (Figure 10).

 

https://www.cdc.gov/coronavirus/2019-ncov/science/data-review/vaccines.html