Morch Posted October 7, 2023 Share Posted October 7, 2023 2 hours ago, Thorgal said: The Kibbutz of Nahal has been overrun by Hamas militants. Rockets have been fired and damaged the electric power station of Rutenberg. A police station and IDF military base has been overrun too. Hamas claims to have captured IDF general Nimrod Aloni. I'm not aware that the power stating was hit. Hamas did claim that, yes. One ought to reflect on the fact that it's the very same power stating providing Gaza with electricity. The man in the picture is a civilian (his name appeared on Israeli media and social media). According to Wikipedia, the general claimed taken hostage by Hamas resides in the North of Israel, and holds a post which makes it unlikely he was anywhere near at the time. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chomper Higgot Posted October 7, 2023 Share Posted October 7, 2023 6 minutes ago, Morch said: It's a tricky political situation, in Israel, The West Bank, and Gaza. Still early to know how it will pan out. In Israel, Netanyahu could harness it to quell protests, and plead for some feigned unity, maybe gaining political support "due to the situation" etc. Then again, it's such a shocker, that'd he'd be hard pressed to spin not being responsible. Then again, it's what he does. My money is on more domestic friction within Israel following this, certainly if factoring an aftermath involving numerous casualties and hostages. Anyway, he'll try to spin the blame as laying with the "left", as usual. For Hamas part, I think this was a obviously a long planned operation (and from an operational point of view, a brilliant one). Why now, though? They just got some extra economic concessions, and the nearing winter is no time for Gaza to lick the surely coming wounds. I'd say it's a mix of making their bid for the crown (Abbas's health, again) through keeping relevant, a message to the Saudis and others who contemplate normalization of relations with Israel, and lastly - it's about the Hamas prisoners held by Israel. Hamas officials, and operatives did not cover that the operational goals include capturing Israelis. Securing the release of Palestinian prisoners was a long standing promise by Sinwar (himself a former prisoner), so either he actually feels strongly about it, or mounting political criticism on this front made an impact. Probably both. In the West Bank, Hamas routinely challenges PA control and status. Almost any aggressive action taken by Hamas results in mass displays of popular support, even in towns which are PA strongholds. This was no different. Again goes back to positioning for the post-Abbas era. Excellent. Unfortunately a large number innocents have and will pay a heavy price for those political maneuvers. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post Morch Posted October 7, 2023 Popular Post Share Posted October 7, 2023 1 hour ago, stevenl said: They probably feel they have nothing to lose. Cliches are great, but they actually do. Or let me rephrase that, ordinary Gazans do. Quite a lot of Palestinians from the Gaza Strip work in industrial zones or agricultural jobs near the strip. Their paychecks are significant for sustaining civilian economy. Guess what will happen to their work permits after this attack? Same goes for medical treatments, passage permissions to the West Bank. That's on top of tightening up the already tight import restrictions. And, of course, the destruction which will surely be visited upon Gaza in retaliation, and with winter right around the corner. That's without accounting for the death of loved ones. 1 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thorgal Posted October 7, 2023 Share Posted October 7, 2023 9 minutes ago, Morch said: I'm not aware that the power stating was hit. Hamas did claim that, yes. One ought to reflect on the fact that it's the very same power stating providing Gaza with electricity. The man in the picture is a civilian (his name appeared on Israeli media and social media). According to Wikipedia, the general claimed taken hostage by Hamas resides in the North of Israel, and holds a post which makes it unlikely he was anywhere near at the time. Is this the Rutenberg power station or not? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
save the frogs Posted October 7, 2023 Share Posted October 7, 2023 1 hour ago, Chomper Higgot said: We should have a thread on ‘Is AI Objective’. An AI supercomputer cannot possibly be any less objective than human beings. Nor as heartless as human beings. Even though technically AIs do not have a heart. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sammieuk1 Posted October 7, 2023 Share Posted October 7, 2023 Its going to get very messy ???? Several Thai and Philippine workers that were on a job mission near the border were captured this morning by Hamas 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thorgal Posted October 7, 2023 Share Posted October 7, 2023 11 minutes ago, Morch said: I'm not aware that the power stating was hit. Hamas did claim that, yes. One ought to reflect on the fact that it's the very same power stating providing Gaza with electricity. The man in the picture is a civilian (his name appeared on Israeli media and social media). According to Wikipedia, the general claimed taken hostage by Hamas resides in the North of Israel, and holds a post which makes it unlikely he was anywhere near at the time. The general in question is perhaps serving in the North, but around Sabbath and the 50th anniversary of Yum Kippur it's most likely he joins his relatives in the week-end like many other Israeli's. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post bob smith Posted October 7, 2023 Popular Post Share Posted October 7, 2023 Free Palestine. 1 4 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Morch Posted October 7, 2023 Share Posted October 7, 2023 1 hour ago, Chomper Higgot said: I doubt the vast majority of Palestinians have had any say in the matter. No, they did not. But at least for the time being, during the 'success' phase, there's evident popular support, both in the Gaza Strip and the West Bank. This will soon turn into whining about Israeli aggression etc., no doubt. Some are more experienced than others, though - it was reported by Israeli and Palestinian media outlets that Gazan families residing near the border started evacuating already, anticipating IDF ground move. Formally, Hamas decision making is taken jointly by heads of 'wings' etc. Sinwar's ascension might have tipped the balance some, though - in favor of the (more) militants. This was hinted by noting the prominent Hamas speakers today. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post Tidal wave Posted October 7, 2023 Popular Post Share Posted October 7, 2023 2 minutes ago, bob smith said: Free Palestine. It will be free ...free of the living 1 1 2 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post Jeff the Chef Posted October 7, 2023 Popular Post Share Posted October 7, 2023 The Human Race, what a shameful lot we are. 3 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Morch Posted October 7, 2023 Share Posted October 7, 2023 13 minutes ago, Thorgal said: Is this the Rutenberg power station or not? I'm not sure if that's the power station. As said, don't recall reading it was damaged today. It was, however, damaged in the 2014 hostilities. The picture could be from then, or that the pictured hits did not effect operations. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Morch Posted October 7, 2023 Share Posted October 7, 2023 47 minutes ago, Nick Carter icp said: Israel are current getting their reservists ready for military action , The invaders will not make it to the West bank , the IDF now have the right to shoot on site and take no prisoners . The "invaders" are not trying to make it to the West Bank, other than in @Thorgal's imagination. There are enough Hamas supporters and infrastructure to carry out operations if they decided to. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nick Carter icp Posted October 7, 2023 Share Posted October 7, 2023 18 minutes ago, Morch said: Cliches are great, but they actually do. Or let me rephrase that, ordinary Gazans do. Quite a lot of Palestinians from the Gaza Strip work in industrial zones or agricultural jobs near the strip. Their paychecks are significant for sustaining civilian economy. Guess what will happen to their work permits after this attack? Same goes for medical treatments, passage permissions to the West Bank. That's on top of tightening up the already tight import restrictions. Then you will get the claim that "Israel are behaving just like the Nazis did " , once this war is all forgotten about in a few months time 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thorgal Posted October 7, 2023 Share Posted October 7, 2023 3 minutes ago, Morch said: The "invaders" are not trying to make it to the West Bank, other than in @Thorgal's imagination. There are enough Hamas supporters and infrastructure to carry out operations if they decided to. Apparently part of the Palestinian plan (seen on footage) is to transfer as many Israelis as possible to Gaza to prevent air strikes and further bargaining. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Morch Posted October 7, 2023 Share Posted October 7, 2023 29 minutes ago, Danderman123 said: If Hamas ever ran into Hezbollah, the result would be bitter war, due to the Sunni-Shiite divide. In the real world, before the civil war in Syria, Hamas and Hezbollah cooperated. Not sure how things stand today. The current attack, for example, is pretty much a copy of Hezbollah publicly acknowledged plans for future fighting rounds with Israel. Hezbollah Praises Hamas Attack, Warns Against Normalizing Ties With Israel https://www.wsj.com/livecoverage/israel-hamas-gaza-rockets-attack-palestinians/card/hezbollah-praises-hamas-attack-warns-against-normalising-ties-with-israel-rbqLpR9QDzCyiUGQw0xl Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Morch Posted October 7, 2023 Share Posted October 7, 2023 21 minutes ago, sammieuk1 said: Its going to get very messy ???? Several Thai and Philippine workers that were on a job mission near the border were captured this morning by Hamas They will probably be released soon. The Israeli hostages, not so much. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nick Carter icp Posted October 7, 2023 Share Posted October 7, 2023 4 minutes ago, Thorgal said: Apparently part of the Palestinian plan (seen on footage) is to transfer as many Israelis as possible to Gaza to prevent air strikes and further bargaining. They need to have a re think about that strategy Nearly 200 killed in Gaza, health officials say 198 Palestinians have died following retaliatory Israeli air strikes in the Gaza Strip - health officials there have said. Officials added at least 1,610 people had been injured in the strikes. Israel launched what it called "Operation Sword of Iron" in response to Hamas's incursion, which began with massive rocket strikes early this morning. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Morch Posted October 7, 2023 Share Posted October 7, 2023 22 minutes ago, Thorgal said: The general in question is perhaps serving in the North, but around Sabbath and the 50th anniversary of Yum Kippur it's most likely he joins his relatives in the week-end like many other Israeli's. Give it a rest, it's not the same guy who's picture you posted earlier. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Morch Posted October 7, 2023 Share Posted October 7, 2023 7 minutes ago, Thorgal said: Apparently part of the Palestinian plan (seen on footage) is to transfer as many Israelis as possible to Gaza to prevent air strikes and further bargaining. Yes, already pointed out in a previous post and this has nothing to do with reaching the West Bank (which was the part of your post I was referencing). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Morch Posted October 7, 2023 Share Posted October 7, 2023 3 minutes ago, Nick Carter icp said: They need to have a re think about that strategy Nearly 200 killed in Gaza, health officials say 198 Palestinians have died following retaliatory Israeli air strikes in the Gaza Strip - health officials there have said. Officials added at least 1,610 people had been injured in the strikes. Israel launched what it called "Operation Sword of Iron" in response to Hamas's incursion, which began with massive rocket strikes early this morning. If looking at precedence, it's a pretty effective strategy. Israel is usually willing (after a lot of bargaining) to release hundreds (and more) Palestinian prisoners for captives. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thorgal Posted October 7, 2023 Share Posted October 7, 2023 5 minutes ago, Morch said: Yes, already pointed out in a previous post and this has nothing to do with reaching the West Bank (which was the part of your post I was referencing). Just an update : Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Danderman123 Posted October 7, 2023 Share Posted October 7, 2023 If Hezbollah wanted to join in this offensive, they have already missed their chance. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nick Carter icp Posted October 7, 2023 Share Posted October 7, 2023 5 minutes ago, Morch said: If looking at precedence, it's a pretty effective strategy. Israel is usually willing (after a lot of bargaining) to release hundreds (and more) Palestinian prisoners for captives. I have just been listening to an I.D.F spokesman on the radio and he says that Israel has no intention of taking any prisoners and that all the invaders will be killed , shot dead 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tug Posted October 7, 2023 Share Posted October 7, 2023 I’m more concerned about Israel’s neighbors it’s no contest between Israel and Palestine now if you get the rest of the Middle East coming to Palestine’s aid then it could really hit the fan.it also plays into Netanyahus hands to solidify his grip on the Israeli nation 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post placeholder Posted October 7, 2023 Popular Post Share Posted October 7, 2023 3 minutes ago, Danderman123 said: If Hezbollah wanted to join in this offensive, they have already missed their chance. Why is it too late? Just asking. There is this which doesn't really offer any insight into whether Hezbollah will participate. Hezbollah supports Hamas amid Israeli assault, but 'assesses' situation for now Lebanese pro-Iran militia Hezbollah congratulated Palestinian group Hamas on its massive surprise attack in southern Israel on Saturday but stopped short of declaring military support for the group, saying it was "assessing" the situation while in direct contact with Hamas leadership. It also warned the government of Israel to "learn lessons from the Palestinian resistance" and said the Hamas operation attack was a "decisive response to the continuing crimes of the occupation." https://www.newarab.com/news/hezbollah-assesses-situation-amid-hamas-attack-israel It could be that Hezbollah is awaiting further developments. 1 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Morch Posted October 7, 2023 Share Posted October 7, 2023 12 minutes ago, Nick Carter icp said: I have just been listening to an I.D.F spokesman on the radio and he says that Israel has no intention of taking any prisoners and that all the invaders will be killed , shot dead Israel does not have a 'shortage' of Palestinian prisoners. Several thousands or so at all times. The point made was with regard to the Hamas motivation to capture Israelis in order to use them as bargaining chips to release said prisoners. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
proton Posted October 7, 2023 Share Posted October 7, 2023 50 minutes ago, bob smith said: Free Palestine. From, hate, Hamas and terrorism yes 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thorgal Posted October 7, 2023 Share Posted October 7, 2023 (edited) 10 minutes ago, Tug said: I’m more concerned about Israel’s neighbors it’s no contest between Israel and Palestine now if you get the rest of the Middle East coming to Palestine’s aid then it could really hit the fan.it also plays into Netanyahus hands to solidify his grip on the Israeli nation Don't count Syria, Lebanon and Jordan. Syria has been pounded so many times by IAF. Lebanon has Hezbollah and will not hesitate to infiltrate from the North. Jordan has some +/-3.000.000 Palestinian refugees from the Nakbah. Some even almost declare that the West Bank Palestinian will distantiate themselves from the Gaza attacks on Israeli citizens and soldiers. I don't think so. Edited October 7, 2023 by Thorgal Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jingthing Posted October 7, 2023 Share Posted October 7, 2023 51 minutes ago, bob smith said: Free Palestine. From Hamas 1 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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