28 minutes ago, transam said:

Next you will be spouting that Iran, Hezbollah are the good guys.....

Now, 204 pages in, and you remain none the wiser.

There are no good guys here.

All of them are bad.

Hamas are bad, the Israel and the IDF are bad, Iran are bad, Hezbollah are bad, the Saudis are bad, and on and on it goes.

Just now, MrMojoRisin said:

Now, 204 pages in, and you remain none the wiser.

There are no good guys here.

All of them are bad.

Hamas are bad, the Israel and the IDF are bad, Iran are bad, Hezbollah are bad, the Saudis are bad, and on and on it goes.

You're an idiot making excuses for butchers............😬

6 hours ago, Walker88 said:

I have no more skin in this game than I did for the horrors of Rwanda back in the 1990s. Horror is horror, evil is evil, and people are people, no innocents better or worse than any other innocents. All of the deaths are sad.

 

A bigger picture worry I have is that Iran will either get too actively involved, or else Netanyahu will unilaterally decide to attack Iran. Undoubtedly that would please short term thinking right wingers in the US, as well as the Gulf States.

 

Obama and his team had true vision. The JCPOA was merely an initial step, and a time-buying step, to bring Iran into the community of nations. It absolutely stopped nuke development, although an Israeli disinformation operation sowed doubts in that ("finding" documents from ~2001 that indicated Iran's nuclear goals). The JCPOA was effective, but trump---the consummate bad dealmaker---decided he had to undue everything Obama did.

 

The longer term outlook of the JCPOA was to buy time until the aging mullahs died. Iran is ripe for change. It's young want to be let loose to modernize the country and live lives similar to what people in developed countries live. The trend in Iran is toward a middle ground between the abuses of the Shah and the fanaticism of the mullahs. Iran has everything it needs to become an economic powerhouse, and if calmed and left alone, will become that after the mullahs die.

 

That scares the Gulf States, because most have organically done absolutely nothing with their vast oil and gas wealth. They have remained feudal and mostly backward, few outside of the royal elite have any chance to prosper, and the royals can pillage their own coffers for their own benefit as they wish. To have a neighbor become a non-resource player would embarrass them. Worse is that the player would be Shi'ite, not Sunni.

 

Since Biden was VP under Obama, I hope this long term belief still exists in this Administration, and that the US is quietly discouraging Netanyahu from setting things back another few generations, as well as warning Iran.

 

Even on a good day, Netanyahu cannot 'unilaterally' order an attack against Iran. That's not how things work in Israel. On top of that, he's not known for making big risky moves on his own, or being very decisive on such matters.

 

I agree that the JCPOA was a step in the right direction, even if seen through too much rose tinted glasses by some. Your 'Israeli disinformation' claim would have to be supported by something other than your words (and that's probably outside the scope of the current topic, anyway). One issue that I thought was problematic with the JCPOA was the over reliance on video and signal surveillance as means of control, while the inspections element was somewhat dependent on Iranian goodwill. As the 7/10 attack demonstrated, such measures could be overcome quite easily.

 

Not even sure what you're on about with the bit about 'after the mullas die'. It's not like there's a limited stock.

 

 

 

1 hour ago, MrMojoRisin said:

 

Basically, yes.

But more than getting a reaction, the intention is to convey my personal moral position.

Hiding behind technicalities when children are being blown to pieces is just not my style.

 

The main difference with the use of terms such as apartheid, genocide and war crimes (no need for quotation marks) when discussing Israel is that they are pretty much main stream accepted facts. Google Israel and apartheid for example and you'll get over 29,000,000 results.

 

In short:

Carpet bombing = hyperbole

Apartheid, genocide and war crimes = reality

 

   It doesn't work that way 

Once it has been established that you deliberately and dishonestly  use the wrong words to mislead the discussion in certain aspects, then you lose all credibility , that along with saying things are true based on Google search results , the amount of results it brings up means it must be true . 

   Well not much left to say as it would probably get deleted 

6 hours ago, MrMojoRisin said:

Death toll passes 8000: Palestinian Ministry of Health

The Palestinian Ministry of Health in Ramallah has now confirmed the number of people killed during Israeli strikes on Gaza since October 7 has risen past 8,000.

73 per cent of those killed are from vulnerable populations, including children, women and elderly people.

 

https://www.news.com.au/world/middle-east/israelhamas-conflict-angry-mob-storms-major-airport-hunting-for-jews/news-story/771ede76128f055ae040482a4833849b

 

How can the Palestinian Ministry of Health in Ramallah 'confirm' anything? It's not like they anywhere near the Gaza Strip, nor have access.

25 minutes ago, Morch said:

 

Some years back (well, more than 'some') these was one of these Israel-Palestine topics on, with one of the sub-issues on the menu being Israel's change of ROE with regard to stone throwing. There were a lot of negative comments on that from posters.

 

About a couple of weeks later, there was a string of stone throwing at cars near Ayhuthaya, with several accidents resulting in injuries (possibly a death, can't recall). There were many calls for capital punishment or treating it like attempted murder from the forum's patrons.

 

Sugar pie, may your car never be hit with a half block while speeding. May the other half block not be lobbed at your precious head with the resulting consequences.

 

Then again, hardly likely to be a risk factor for a keyboard warrior.

 

Capital punishment would occur after a fair trial would it not?

Very very different from shooting a kid on the spot.

 

Tell me, if the kid happens to be Muslim or have a darker skin complexion, is it okay in your book to just pull the trigger without the trial?

5 minutes ago, MrMojoRisin said:

Now, 204 pages in, and you remain none the wiser.

There are no good guys here.

All of them are bad.

Hamas are bad, the Israel and the IDF are bad, Iran are bad, Hezbollah are bad, the Saudis are bad, and on and on it goes.

They picked a side and don't have the intelligence to fathom how both sides are bad. 

6 hours ago, Jeff the Chef said:

Lovely piece on the subject of carpet bombing from the Jerusalem Post

https://www.jpost.com/israel/eliyahu-advocates-carpet-bombing-gaza

 

That's a 2007 article, Jeff.

And yes, no one claimed there are no extremists and loons in Israel.

Chief Rabbis do not hold any effective authority on these matters, though.

 

1 minute ago, MrMojoRisin said:

 

Capital punishment would occur after a fair trial would it not?

Very very different from shooting a kid on the spot.

 

Tell me, if the kid happens to be Muslim or have a darker skin complexion, is it okay in your book to just pull the trigger without the trial?

Now were playing the Racism card you getting bored with dead gazans.

1 minute ago, Neeranam said:

They picked a side and don't have the intelligence to fathom how both sides are bad. 

Oh, no.............🙄

6 hours ago, MrMojoRisin said:

 

Lovely indeed.

 

Eliyahu advocates carpet bombing Gaza, says there is no moral prohibition against killing civilians to save Jews.

 

Lovely words form the former Chief Rabbi?

 

Any of those consistently calling on others to denounce Hamas wish to take the opportunity to denounce this garbage?

 

The floor is yours....

 

It's a 2007 article.

His words were denounced at the time (not by all, obviously) and not acted upon - because Chief Rabbis do not hold that sort of power in Israel.

 

 

1 hour ago, Jingthing said:

So much wrong with that vile antisemitic post but for starters Israel doesn't occupy Gaza and October 7 was the biggest massacre of non military Jews since the holocaust. 

 

The consistent use of the label "antisemitic" to accuse numerous individuals in this thread has unfortunately diluted its intended impact.

 

I'm fortunate not to find myself in the position of Mel Gibson or any other Hollywood stars or prominent politicians who often must vigorously defend themselves. I take such accusation as a badge of honor when it’s being uttered by the likes of you.

 

Antisemitism in fact, has seen a significant surge around the word due to crimes committed by the unethical army of Israel since the commencement of the genocide in Gaza.

Just yesterday, an alarming incident unfolded when a crowd forcibly entered the Russian region of Dagestan at the airport, specifically looking for Israeli passengers.

 

The world's attention is undeniably focused on Israel's daily crimes not only in Gaza but also in the West Bank, and the global outcry against these actions is growing stronger by the day.

 

So go and blame the criminals in Tel Aviv for this antisemitic surge against innocent Jews worldwide and stop misusing this label.

Reported post, some troll comments and responses to them removed.

10 minutes ago, MrMojoRisin said:

We are both criminals.

Wouldn't you agree?

No, per the example, you stole my car, and when I found you, I raped and killed your daughter, I killed your pregnant wife and baby, and then lit them on fire all while you watched, and then I killed you and burned your house down.

 

So no, were not both criminals, you were a criminal, and I'm driving away laughing positing videos of you screaming online. 

 

You see them as being equivalent, I don't. Whatever. 

1 minute ago, MrMojoRisin said:

Now, 204 pages in, and you remain none the wiser.

There are no good guys here.

All of them are bad.

Hamas are bad, the Israel and the IDF are bad, Iran are bad, Hezbollah are bad, the Saudis are bad, and on and on it goes.

Those that chose a entrenched and  largely ignorant populist initial opinion are mostly those that will ignorantly defend such a position even in the face of increasingly intense global opposition to the overall direction the conflict is  going in terms of mass civilian deaths . False comparatives to the Holocaust are being objected to by survivors of it. The myth of majority support for Hamas is a lie to vilify civilians as complicit in justification of indiscriminate bombing and shelling of civilians.

The objectives  of extremists  on both sides of  an established wall are identical.

Those that  support either side is no better then either side. .

 

6 hours ago, MrMojoRisin said:

Literally?

I am not sure as I am not aware of the precise definition and how it is measured.

Practically?

Yes!

 

As far as my personal opinion goes - any bombing of residential areas is carpet bombing.

 

I guess it all comes down to the difference in our morals and how much value we place on human life, particularly if the humans being bombed don't look, sound or act like us.

 

Lower your standards enough and I'm sure it is quite easy to see all types of bombing of "enemies" as acceptable, even agreeable.

 

What of the fact that Hamas are not the only fanatics, that Israel also has it's own fair share of them, up to including Chief Rabbi's

 

And this from a poster going on and on about how important 'accuracy', 'facts', and 'truth' are.

 

So, you're not sure because you're not not aware what it means - but you know it's what's done by Israel.

Great bit of logic work there, mojo.

 

Your personal definitions of things are of no interest or importance.

 

Same goes for them self pats on the back, and virtue signalling. No one is impressed. No one takes it half seriously.

 

If you don't like that there are difference in bombing types, tactics and so on, go and campaign to change relevant international laws.

Iv'e decided to name the best 5 posts so far in no decending order.

 

1 Israel dropped the missile on the hospital

2 Israel committed war crimes

3 Israel deliberately kills kids in Gaza

4 Hamas didn't start the war on 7th Oct

5 Number 1 on my hit parade the UK sent an Aircraft Carrier to the gulf priceless.

 

Just now, RanongCat said:

. The myth of majority support for Hamas is a lie to vilify civilians as complicit in justification of indiscriminate bombing and shelling of civilians.

 

 

 

  There is no indiscriminate bombing and shelling though from Israel to Gaza , although there is indiscriminate bombing going from Gaza to Israel 

6 minutes ago, Danny Australia said:

 

The consistent use of the label "antisemitic" to accuse numerous individuals in this thread has unfortunately diluted its intended impact.

 

I'm fortunate not to find myself in the position of Mel Gibson or any other Hollywood stars or prominent politicians who often must vigorously defend themselves. I take such accusation as a badge of honor when it’s being uttered by the likes of you.

 

Antisemitism in fact, has seen a significant surge around the word due to crimes committed by the unethical army of Israel since the commencement of the genocide in Gaza.

Just yesterday, an alarming incident unfolded when a crowd forcibly entered the Russian region of Dagestan at the airport, specifically looking for Israeli passengers.

 

The world's attention is undeniably focused on Israel's daily crimes not only in Gaza but also in the West Bank, and the global outcry against these actions is growing stronger by the day.

 

So go and blame the criminals in Tel Aviv for this antisemitic surge against innocent Jews worldwide and stop misusing this label.

Obviously, you are just in an arrogant and sickening state of denial and there is no point debating you. You are the type who the sun might be glaring in his face, but he would swear on the bible its pitch black.

 

If 4000 dead kids so far do not move you, nothing else will and need to recheck your humanity.

6 hours ago, MrMojoRisin said:

Yes.

My agenda is to be accurately informed on the topic.

That would be very hard to do without scouring reputable sources from all sides.

Give it a try.

 

You're constantly babbling about your 'personal' definitions, which are neither accurate nor generally accepted.

You constantly post materials, comments and 'facts' based on dubious sources, or not sourced at all. When these are (rightly) taken down, you whine.

 

 

5 hours ago, JBChiangRai said:

This guy is no better than the Mullah’s we have arrested in the UK for spreading hate speech and fundamentalist Islam.

 

Indeed.

34 minutes ago, Nick Carter icp said:

 

  Stop it, you have got to be winding me up .

You just cannot be serious .

Google search results mean something is true or not ?

Ha ha , quite funny, I just hope that you aren't being serious 

 

No, I am not winding you up.

 

Google search results show the amount of activity of a particular topic or subject matter.

The more people that are researching, discussing or debating an issue, the more search results there are.

 

Nick, you have to be more aware of your own strengths and weaknesses and limitations.

You constantly post without fully understanding what you are responding to.

Always shooting from the hip straight into your own foot.

Slow down.

Stop thinking you know everything.

You are clearly overestimating your literacy and comprehension skills and it is resulting in you posting nonsense.

 

At the moment, IMHO, you are a know it all that knows nothing and if you don't change your attitude and increase your self awareness, that is all you will ever be and that is a terrible way to spend ones short time here on this mortal coil.

Just now, Morch said:

 

You're constantly babbling about your 'personal' definitions, which are neither accurate nor generally accepted.

You constantly post materials, comments and 'facts' based on dubious sources, or not sourced at all. When these are (rightly) taken down, you whine.

 

 

So funny !  You refute much  based on "your" opinions  with zero source or at all and excuse such on the basis  of having "authoritively" posted such in historical tomes. !

You are a blagger in my opinion. I have nothing  but the evidence of  your own  misplaced arrogant expressions of the desire to see  the people of Gaza die enmasse in the dubious endeavour to  eliminate  Islamic  radicals.

Just now, RanongCat said:

So funny !  You refute much  based on "your" opinions  with zero source or at all and excuse such on the basis  of having "authoritively" posted such in historical tomes. !

You are a blagger in my opinion. I have nothing  but the evidence of  your own  misplaced arrogant expressions of the desire to see  the people of Gaza die enmasse in the dubious endeavour to  eliminate  Islamic  radicals.

Education major? 

5 hours ago, MrMojoRisin said:

 

One man's carpet bombing is another man's right to defend themselves.

 

Every single square inch of this topic has columns and columns of text promoting one sides views, whether truthful or not, and denouncing their opponents views, whether truthful or not, that only a fool would take anything at face value.

 

Does the definition of the bombing really matter when the death toll of innocents is already so high. However the Israeli bombing is defined, whatever name is given to it, it does not change the fact that it is just as barbaric as Hamas cutting the heads off babies and burning families alive and gunning down festival attendees.

 

A bloke, or a former Chief Rabbi?

 

This article is over a decade old but it illustrates the fanaticism on both sides.

Anyone who thinks their side is the good guys in this is 1000% wrong.

 

Both sides are as awful as each other.

 

Nope. Carpet bombing is a concept. Not something mojo gets to decide about.

 

The definition does matter, because your usage of incorrect terminology is calculated toward pushing an agenda.

For example, some concept or terms you reject outright, even though they exist - simply because they don't fit well in your narrative: "collateral damage', 'precision bombing' and others.

 

You don't get to re-write the dictionary of terms relevant to the topic and dictate it to others.

 

Terms used relate to legality of actions, so falsely labeling things as something they are not, goes toward misleadingly painting them as 'war crimes' and so on.

 

 

2 hours ago, Nick Carter icp said:

 

  Do stop posting links that you need to sign up for to read  ,   thanks 

I agree.  I don't want to sign up for websites.   Maybe they can cut and paste most relevant text, if thats allowed.

 

34 minutes ago, Nick Carter icp said:

 

 

   I can play that game .

Man landed on the moon two million years ago, because that's when man first noticed the moon 

You obviously can't play that game.

There were no men 2 million years ago Nick.

Homo Sapiens have only existed for about 300,000 years.

Facts are important, ignoring them only makes one look stupid.

1 minute ago, RanongCat said:

So funny !  You refute much  based on "your" opinions  with zero source or at all and excuse such on the basis  of having "authoritively" posted such in historical tomes. !

You are a blagger in my opinion. I have nothing  but the evidence of  your own  misplaced arrogant expressions of the desire to see  the people of Gaza die enmasse in the dubious endeavour to  eliminate  Islamic  radicals.

That lot is even funnier, a word salad meaning absolutely nothing.

Back to the litter tray for you......🥴 

1 minute ago, Morch said:

 

Nope. Carpet bombing is a concept. Not something mojo gets to decide about.

 

The definition does matter, because your usage of incorrect terminology is calculated toward pushing an agenda.

For example, some concept or terms you reject outright, even though they exist - simply because they don't fit well in your narrative: "collateral damage', 'precision bombing' and others.

 

You don't get to re-write the dictionary of terms relevant to the topic and dictate it to others.

 

Terms used relate to legality of actions, so falsely labeling things as something they are not, goes toward misleadingly painting them as 'war crimes' and so on.

 

 

Verbage.

5 hours ago, MrMojoRisin said:

Give it a try.

 

Read some pro-Palestine articles.

Watch some pro-Palestine videos.

 

Better yet, watch some interviews/debates where both sides are represented by well informed proponents.

 

I doubt you read much that's not in line with your point of view. Or at least no in-depth reading beyond searching for anything that could be used as a counter-argument. Considering your own warped, extreme views, it is hard to imagine you'd accept anyone not supporting your way of thinking and rhetoric as 'informed'. This was demonstrated on this topic often enough.